William Munsey responded to A Curse on the Betrayal of Canada:
So, Victor… I agree… if you are talking about them ALL, including the immoral bastards that precipitated the whole thing by being politically stupid and strategically moronic and insensitive to the ways of the British Parliamentary system.
They are ALL curs.
And Canadians who are reacting in a partisan way and ignoring the whole burden of responsibility do not know what they are doing.
There is enough sin to go around to all of them.
I am sick of them all.
William Munsey
(Green Party)
Victor’s reply:
Hi Will,
First of all, let me commend you for caring about the environment. We care too; we have an organic farm – see it at harvesthaven.com, or better still, come and visit, seeing you are not all that far away.
I must agree that there is sin everywhere. The Bible is clear on that point and you are simply quoting the Scriptures, know it or not. We are not naïve on that point.
However, sinners or not, God has set in place those whom He has ordained. Allow me to avoid inventing the wheel again. I will quote what I wrote to another, a colleague of yours:
“We observe this most common error being made in this debate. While there were more votes for the coalition parties than for Harper, there were not more Canadian votes for them than him. By this I mean that the Bloc Quebecois tips the balance in favor of the coalition, but it was not elected by Canada General, only Quebec, as avowed separatists. Therefore, how can you and so many others fairly claim that a greater portion of the general Canadian electorate chose the coalition? It simply is not true.
It has been a marvel to me from the start that Canada would give antiCanadians power to legislate and decide the future of proCanadians. Now we have a complication arising from the shortsightedness of those who designed or tinkered with British Parliamentarianism. Personally, it does not matter to me if Quebec separates or not, and I do not see them as villains for wanting to do so. Of course, if men were to unite, in righteousness, unity would serve far better than division, duplication, and competition, but it is the nature of man to be selfish and self-centered until God changes that, and He is and will.”
Here is where the votes need to go now, Will (the Only Answer):
For Whom Do We Vote?
How Do We Vote for the Lord Jesus Christ?
Why Do We Vote for Jesus Christ?
Are We Suggesting You Should Put Your Head in the Sand?
This is strange and unreasonable to men, but true.
Victor
Will’s first reply:
Dear Victor,
Thanks for your reply and unique analysis of the situation and for your invitation to the farm. I’d be very interested in visiting.
Like you, I do not accept the concept “more people voted against Stephen Harper and the Conservatives than voted for them” as a moral basis for supporting this coalition. Does that surprise you?
I think when we get into the idea of voting AGAINST something, we destroy democracy. It ought not to be about voting against ideas we do not like, but voting for what we believe in. So here we are in agreement.
However, I don’t see things purely your way either. I do not see coalition governments as inherently wrong. What troubles me is that the Liberals and New Democrats showed visceral hatred for one another during the last election and the time running up to it. They gave NO indication to Canadians that they could ever form a coalition and therefore, the shock of them doings so feels like deception and opportunism to many of us.
In fact, I believe coalitions–when we accept them as possibilities–are good things. The possibility that parties may need one another in the future will lessen the partisan animosity and childish behaviour our political parties now exhibit. This difference will also prepare voters for the idea that Party A and Party C have common ground. Party B must then be slightly cautious not to outrage the others, even if it knows it is stronger than either separately… but not stronger then the combined opposition parties. Party B must then reach out to other participants in the proces… or to either Party A or Party C.
Northern European countries often run by coalition. Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Germany… these are examples where coalitions work very well and result in stable governments. Switzerland has been run by a coalition government since the 1950’s and no one can say Switzerland is unstable.
I can agree with your point about the Bloc. I do not want the Bloc to be any part of any national coalition that has a final say in the governance of the whole country. That said, I do not actually see the Bloc as ‘real’ separatists but rather as a sort of “pressure valve” that has helped us avoid increased separatist fervor. Quebecors get to vote for a party they feels protects their interests in Canada and therefore they do not have to actually seek sovereignty. Still, I cannot accept them being part of a national coalition until they come out and say, “We are not a sovereignty party anymore, but a Canadian party that simply looks out for the interests of Quebec… WITHIN CANADA.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like the idea of regional parties. I believe strongly in a united Canada, where our common bonds are stronger than our regional differences and I hope our political parties will begin to see that building us up as one nation is better than constantly pitting us against one another.
My Canada includes Quebec. My Canada includes Alberta. My Canada includes any and all with the desire to make this country better… more compassionate… more inclusive… fairer… GREENER… more sustainable… on the national front and the international front.
But when we refer to “anti-Canadian” interests, I also believe what the Conservatives are doing RIGHT NOW is not in the best interests of our collective future. A minority government MUST govern from the centre. the three pieces of legislation they tried to pass in the Financial Update were clearly partisan issues:
1) public political funding… while an issue for debate was a power play to rid Canada of an opposition. Opposition is a intricate part of our democracy and a way to allow even poor people who cannot donate to political parties to have a way to contribute financially to the government they believe in at the same time as exercising their franchise to vote. It is actually a noble attempt to involve all levels of society in our democracy. The argument that the money comes from “our taxes” is erroneous. It comes from each and every individual vote cast by Canadians for the party they believe in. Valuing a vote doesn’t seem wrong to me. $1.95 for democracy seems like good bargain. Some countries pay voters to vote. Many in our country consider doing the same thing. We might want to talk about the value of the vote, but I think $1.95 is a good deal. In comparison to having a premature $350 million election (and breaking a law to call it)… them perhaps forcing a new one less than two months later seems much more provocative and wasteful to me than $1.95 for an actual vote.
2) taking away the collective right to negotiate wages and working conditions for public servants. I know many conservatives feel the right to strike is a terrible thing, but when no one in this country has the right to act in concert with others who feel the same way about issues, the danger of authoritarianism increases many folds. The right to strike is a fundamental right in democracy and in a balanced capitalist system. It is NOT socialism. It is not communism. It is democratic and capitalist. That very right exercised over the last 120 years has given us a five-day work week, fair and livable wages, retirement benefits, the right to protest unjust firing… and many more things we consider standards in employment policy.
3) the right for women to use the constitution to seek equal pay for equal work. The idea that a government would seek to restrict the use of the constitution for women to pursue this goal is absolutely frightening to me and that is without even saying whether I even agree with the goal. Stopping anyone from having access to the argument is WRONG and uncharitable.
What caused this crisis is not the idea of coalition. What caused this crisis was the aggressive behaviour of a government that simply miscalculated what its minority government could get away with. It was partisan politicking at its very worst.
The true crime here is that the idea of coalition is being spun by some in this country as illegal… unconstitutional, undemocratic. It is none of those things and in spinning it that way, the Conservatives divide this country and set all sorts of ugliness in motion. Again, we are being pitted against one another rather than being brought together. All this wasted energy is so pointless.
You and I agree that the proposed coalition is unpalatable. We differ (perhaps) in that I do not see coalitions as some sort of evil. I continue to believe that this UNNECESSARY crisis was precipitated by Stephen Harper and his party. His new tone proves to me that he understands his mistake. I like the new conciliatory Stephen Harper. Where was this charitable man two weeks ago? I like him better now, but the problem is that you don’t get “do-overs” in democracy. Sometimes you have to wait for next time.
Now that they have realised their mistake, they have withdrawn the three provocative pieces of legislation (an admission of the mistake) and want another chance at governing. They went to the Governor General and asked for a break and she gave it to them: a “do-over!” I am of two minds whether that was a good idea and hold judgement off, but the precedent of cancelling parliament when the government loses trust with the majority of the ELECTED MPs in the democracy is a VERY VERY scary thing. A list of countries that would do such a thing does not read like a list of countries we really want to be compared to: Zimbabwe, Algeria, Liberia, Poland (20 years ago under communism)… AND yes, the comparison is apt.
When you write of “short sightedness” in potentially giving the Bloc power over Canadian law, I wonder to myself why you don’t also refer to the short sightedness of failing to see the chaos all this would cause or the coming divisiveness we will suffer as the country tries to recover from the new feelings of separatism… both in Quebec and the west. That is an equal (perhaps greater) short sightedness.
Finally, Victor, I know you are a man of strong Christian belief. I believe myself to be a Christian as well. I think what we share is a desire for Canada to be a fairer, more charitable nation. I do not believe we can do that with the continued political partisanship we now have from our political leaders.
While I do not support this coalition, I think coalitions are potentially very good… depending on their make up. I think political brinksmanship is our problem here. I think in this chaotic mess, we have seen clearly that our collective political leadership (on every front) has lost touch with what is best for Canada. If we are lucky,, patient and forgiving, we will learn from this and become better.
I will visit the websites you gave me and look up your farm. Perhaps we can have tea one day and try to convince each other in a civil and Canadian way.
Thank you for your time, Victor.
William Munsey
Will’s second reply:
Victor,
I’ve looked at your website. Wow, you have really built something great on the land and I am definitely coming down… in the spring probably.
I have great interest in the dandelion (didn’t know that meant teeth of lion). I loved the metaphor of the Dandelion and Jesus.
I’m glad to have stumbled across you, Victor, even if it took a political crisis.
Again, I can’t wait to come down and see your farm and learn about dandelions. You will be happy to note I don’t put chemicals on them either… but haven’t yet learned to love them. Maybe your metaphor will help.
Regards,
William Munsey
Victor’s reply to Will’s first reply:
Hi Will,
I cannot help but agree with you on many points in your letter, not because I am Canadian, but because I simply agree. However, we have some clarifications to make here.
You write: “You and I agree that the proposed coalition is unpalatable. We differ (perhaps) in that I do not see coalitions as some sort of evil.”
Agree on the first statement, but I do not differ with you at all about coalitions. I do not see coalitions in principle as being evil, and I do not think it necessarily wrong for them to exercise their power of numbers. You misunderstand, and no doubt others have as well. God has simply cursed this particular coalition at this particular time.
One can speculate on why. I would say that above the fact that the coalition began with the Bloc Quebecois, which is not there in Canada’s best interests as a whole, there were devious motives and hypocrisy on the parts of the others, but cloaked in a self-righteous garment of selflessly serving Canada’s best interests.
As a man of God, I felt His indignation within me and was moved to curse, which rarely happens. Two others in the Lord immediately agreed with me. As Jesus said:
“Again I say to you that if two of you shall agree on earth as regarding anything that they shall ask, it shall be done for them by My Father in Heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in My Name, there I am in their midst” (Matthew 18:19-20 MKJV).
The day the curse came forth (December 1), the situation turned on a dime – one might say, miraculously. And it was a miracle, if one defines a miracle as “something happening with design, quite unexpectedly in many cases, beyond the understanding, power, or will of man.” Up to that time the Conservatives and Harper were, for all intents and purposes, defeated, deflated, sick, and finished. If not openly, at least secretly they were wishing they had never done what they did.
You write: “I do not believe we can do that with the continued political partisanship we now have from our political leaders.”
You are so right, and you will never see that change for the better with men. The Bible clearly teaches that all men are corrupt, Green Party included. For the past six millennia, men have had their opportunities to try their hand at governing themselves. Nearly three millennia ago, the Hebrew prophet Jeremiah said this by the Spirit of God:
“I know, GOD, that mere mortals can’t run their own lives, that men and women don’t have what it takes to take charge of life. So correct us, GOD, as You see best. Don’t lose Your temper. That would be the end of us. Vent Your anger on the godless nations, who refuse to acknowledge You, and on the people who won’t pray to You– The very ones who’ve made hash out of Jacob, yes, made hash and devoured him whole, people and pastures alike” (Jeremiah 10:23-25 MSG).
That says it all, Will. And that is why we now preach not voting red, blue, or even green, but White, the color that Biblically represents the holiness and righteousness of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. He is the Answer.
Read the links I gave you previously. The Solution to all our troubles and problems is clearly expressed in those articles. There is no other way. You can also read our stories at the site and see how we came to believe and know what we do.
Victor
Victor’s reply to Will’s second reply:
Hi Will!
I am glad you appreciated what you discovered about us and our farm – and about the dandelion! Yes, we have a veritable carpet of medicine under our feet nearly everywhere, and people are treating it as one of their worst enemies.
Did you notice that we process a dandelion root powder that people have found and claimed to help them with many ailments, often times many forms of cancer? Just half a teaspoon a day of dandelion root powder with a bit of water helps cleanse the liver in one of the most effective, natural ways known. Everybody can use a liver cleanse, many most urgently. The powder is full of nutrients, many of which are not found elsewhere, certainly not in the same combinations and ratios. The leaves are great for salads – the Italians have used them regularly in their culture – full of good stuff. Back to basics, Will.
We look forward to meeting you.
Victor
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