Justin’s reponse to The Key for Israel and the Jew:
I converted to Judaism!
Paul’s reply:
You need to go all the way, Justin, and reconcile with God through the King of the Jews!
Paul
Justin’s reply:
sorry..just through G-d..idolatry is forbidden in Judaism, even for non-Jews
Paul’s reply:
"You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3 HNV).
Justin, you are quite confused. Idolatry is parading around a Torah scroll, lifting it in the air, kissing it, and singing songs to it. So is standing before an ancient broken down wall and praying to it.
Worshiping at the feet of the Angel of the LORD is not idolatry:
Joshua 5:13-15 BBE
(13) Now when Joshua was near Jericho, lifting up his eyes he saw a man in front of him, with his sword uncovered in his hand: and Joshua went up to him and said, Are you for us or against us?
(14) And he said, No; but I have come as Captain of the armies of the Lord. Then Joshua, falling down with his face to the earth in worship, said, What has my Lord to say to His servant?
(15) And the Captain of the Lord’s army said to Joshua, Take off your shoes from your feet, for the place where you are is holy. And Joshua did so.
Abraham, the father of those who have the faith of God, saw the One he worshiped in the flesh (Genesis 18), and continued thereafter to worship Him in spirit and truth. He never left the living God to worship a book or a wall.
So, while I am in the tradition of my fathers, who are you following?
The King of the Jews is no ordinary man, but is God Himself, Who took on human form as promised to redeem all of Israel and the world. Only God can raise Himself from the dead. Only God can give His Spirit to those whom He chooses, empowering them to live and to testify of His works. Jesus Christ is the One and Only God, the Same Who appeared to Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, and others; there is no other God.
Having no contact with the God of Abraham, you, along with the nation of Israel that He set aside in their apostasy, have substituted idols of paper and stone for God. You are as dead to His Holy Spirit as those things you serve.
But God has determined to raise Israel from the dead, and your unbelief won’t stop Him. In fact, it will only serve to glorify Him, as it has here by my reply.
Paul Cohen
Justin’s reply:
My response is:
_____________
"You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3 HNV).
Justin, you are quite confused. Idolatry is parading around a Torah scroll, lifting it in the air, kissing it, and singing songs to it. So is standing before an ancient broken down wall and praying to it.
I am confused? If it is the Torah that gives this commandment, should we not honor it? Simcha Torah is a holiday from the Torah, if you don’t remember. Perhaps you didn’t learn that as a child? No excuse, because neither did I. That Wall is half torn down because your cronies tore it down-don’t play stupid with me!
Worshiping at the feet of the Angel of the LORD is not idolatry:
Joshua 5:13-15 BBE
(13) Now when Joshua was near Jericho, lifting up his eyes he saw a man in front of him, with his sword uncovered in his hand: and Joshua went up to him and said, Are you for us or against us?
(14) And he said, No; but I have come as Captain of the armies of the Lord. Then Joshua, falling down with his face to the earth in worship, said, What has my Lord to say to His servant?
(15) And the Captain of the Lord’s army said to Joshua, Take off your shoes from your feet, for the place where you are is holy. And Joshua did so.
The Messiah is not supposed to be an angel, but a prophet and king. Attributing power to any other source other than one G-d is idolatry. You should look at what the Rambam says about this. After all, the fact that you correctly identify the man as an angel comes from Rashi. Why do you quote the rabbinate if you oppose their views? That is a contradiction.
Abraham, the father of those who have the faith of God, saw the One he worshiped in the flesh (Genesis 18), and continued thereafter to worship Him in spirit and truth. He never left the living God to worship a book or a wall.
Abraham lived before the giving of the Torah. It says in the Zohar that G-d looked into the Torah for to create the world:
"And these are the generations of Yitzchak…" (Beresheet 25:19). Rabbi Chiya opened the discussion with the verse: "Who can utter the mighty acts of Hashem? Who can declare all His praise?" (Tehilim 106:2). Come and behold: when the Holy One, blessed be He, wished to create the world, He did so according to the Torah. And every act that the Holy One, blessed be He, used to create the world was done according to the Torah. This is the meaning of: "then I was by him, as a nursling: and I was daily his delight" (Mishlei 8:30). Do not pronounce it as "a nursling," (Heb. amon) but rather ‘a craftsman’ (Heb. oman), BECAUSE IT WAS A TOOL FOR HIS CRAFT.
The fact that Jews revere the Torah is to their credit because it is the will of G-d. If early Christians or even some Jews today don’t recognize that, it’s their error.
With regard to the Western Wall-as one gets closer to the Holy of Holies, "behind" the Wall, the holiness increases. The Holy of Holies is where Adam was created, where Abraham went to sacrifice Isaac, where the Jacob had the dream if the angels going up and down the ladder, and where the Ark of the Covenant was kept! Sound important to you? According to Jewish law a Jew must face the Temple Mount when he prays. Apparently you are unaware of that and you simply think that Jews pray to the Wall! A Jew cannot step on the area where the Holy Of Holies is because we are in a state of impurity today. Therefore, to not transgress this (as well as secular law), Jews pray at the Wall.
So, while I am in the tradition of my fathers, who are you following?
Who are your fathers? Are you a Jew according to Jewish law?
The King of the Jews is no ordinary man, but is God Himself, Who took on human form as promised to redeem all of Israel and the world.
This is hardcore idolatry. Look at what the Rambam says about how we perceive G-d. G-d has no shape and is not bounded. It is idiotic that you "worship" a Jew but disparage the Jewish Nation.
Only God can raise Himself from the dead.
Are you saying G-d "dies"? That is ridiculous. G-d is infinite and not bounded-He has no beginning or end. Do Christians really believe what you wrote?
Only God can give His Spirit to those whom He chooses, empowering them to live and to testify of His works. Jesus Christ is the One and Only God, the Same Who appeared to Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, and others; there is no other God.
Again, you are mixing paganism with with Judaism. G-d has no form and a man cannot be G-d. You want to give me a lecture about another pagan idea of yours-Santa Claus? By the way if you rearrange the letters Santa it spells Satan!
Having no contact with the God of Abraham, you, along with the nation of Israel that He set aside in their apostasy, have substituted idols of paper and stone for God. You are as dead to His Holy Spirit as those things you serve.
Excuse me? When Jews pray they begin by addressing the G-d of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. Did you not go to Hebrew school, or are you just another lost American Jew? Jews are being exiled because of their sins, not because of their "apostasy." Here you are describing yourself, Paul, and those who think like you. I am alive and well and we are waiting for the Divine Presence and prophesy to return to the Jewish Nation-which it will. The writing off of the Jews is an act of Esav’s jealousy and his regret that he spurned the birthright. You don’t want to talk about that, eh Paul?
But God has determined to raise Israel from the dead, and your unbelief won’t stop Him. In fact, it will only serve to glorify Him, as it has here by my reply.
This may be the only correct thing you wrote on this email! But, who is the believer, Paul?
Paul’s reply:
I am not saying we should not honor the Torah.
I am saying that without the faith of Christ, you cannot establish the Law of God. The Jews have made a god of the Torah, while ignoring the God of the Torah.
We are not part of nominal orthodox Christianity.
We, along with all of God’s children, are the destroyers of it.
I am not saying God is a man.
I am saying God is a Spirit, and He can manifest Himself however He chooses. He made man in His image, so it is no wonder that He has appeared as a man, even as He did when He visited Abraham just before destroying Sodom and Gomorrah. His great work for mankind was taking on human existence and fulfilling the Law to enable us to do the same by His grace and power. We cannot do it on our own; on that the Tenach is very clear.
In the Tenach, God manifested Himself not only as a man, but also in a flame of fire in the midst of a bush to Moses and in the likeness of four living creatures in the midst of fire to Ezekiel. Rambam is wrong if he says that God never takes on form. And who cares what a man that contradicts the Scriptures says? The man is a prating fool. Are you surprised? You need to not be.
We are not attributing power to any source other than God.
Jesus Christ did all His works by the power of God, and so do those who believe in Him. That is His purpose in coming, to connect us to God, not so that we can do our own thing, but to do the works of God.
The word "angel" means "messenger." The Messiah is also known as the Messenger (or Angel) of the Covenant, the Lord Whom men seek:
"Behold, I send My messenger, and he shall clear the way before Me; and the Lord, Whom ye seek, will suddenly come to His temple, and the Messenger of the Covenant, Whom ye delight in, behold, He cometh, saith the LORD of hosts" (Malachi 3:1 JPS).
The Angel of the Lord is God making His will known to humankind, as He did with Abraham and Joshua. I did not get that from Rashi or any other rabbi, but from God, as confirmed in His written Word.
I am not saying God can die.
I am saying God can become a man, can die, and can then raise Himself from the dead signifying to all mankind that He holds the keys of death and hell. In fact, only God can do that. Jesus Christ proved He was God by raising His body from the dead. But whenever God appeared to men, it was also demonstrated that He still sustained all life by His Spirit. The earth didn’t collapse, but things went on as before, because He still fills the universe. Why should it be any different when He came in Christ?
Yes, Abraham lived before the Torah. That does not negate my point. The father of those who have the faith of God was not dependent on a book or a place or any physical thing, but on God. So are all his children. You are not a son of Abraham, by physical or spiritual birth.
The Zohar has things backwards, putting the Torah before God, which is a symptom of the Jewish idolatry I spoke of in my letter. In essence, the Jews have been no different from the heathen – worse, in fact, because the Jews were given more than the heathen.
You are imbuing the Torah with a life of its own, apart from God, when it is merely a portion of His expressed wisdom and works. Just as a book is not more than its author, but the author is more than it, so is God much more than the Bible.
The wisdom of God as expressed in the Bible is rightly cited and applied in all of our writings. Have you red anything on our site, Justin?
Start with Israel, Is Your God Unjust?
Your notion of the holiness of the former Temple Mount is pure superstition, a hallmark of heathen religion. It proves exactly what I said about you – you are the idolater, not I. If the place where the Holy of Holies stood was so sacred to God, do you think He would allow a Muslim mosque, the abomination of desolation, to sit on or near it?
Yet He has allowed that to happen in your heart, where the man of sin now resides, which place is far more important to Him than any piece of real estate on earth. That is what you fail to recognize, not knowing God’s mind or what He is actually doing here. If you think you will please Him by embracing Judaism (and you do), you are mistaken.
But you are right that you are in a state of impurity and disallowed access to the Holy Place, which is God Himself, and not a physical place. The Mosque of Omar is representative of your spiritual state of being.
We do not disparage the Jewish nation, unless you count what Moses and the prophets said to the Jews as disparagement. Then we are also guilty.
You really need to familiarize yourself with what we say in Israel and the Jew, if you want to converse with us. As of now, you mistake what I say at every turn, don’t bother to pay attention to what is readily available to you, and compound your confusion. I would hope that you would listen to sound reason and direction, but you react as a stubborn pedant. I would be pleased to be proven wrong on this count.
Because you pray by formally addressing the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob does not mean He hears your prayers. That is more superstition. It is trusting in your religious form, and not in the One you presume to be worshipping. Isaiah addressed this ignorant and lawless spirit:
Isaiah 29:13-14 JPS
(13) And the Lord said: Forasmuch as this people draw near, and with their mouth and with their lips do honor Me, but have removed their heart far from Me, and their fear of Me is a commandment of men learned by rote;
(14) Therefore, behold, I will again do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder; and the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the prudence of their prudent men shall be hid.
Which exactly describes your condition and reply to me – they are without wisdom or prudence.
You say "…we are waiting for the Divine Presence and prophesy to return to the Jewish Nation"
That takes us back to The Key for Israel and the Jew, and our calling in God, which has brought His Presence and the day of fulfillment of His prophetic Word to the nation of Israel, to raise it from the dead, whether you accept it or not.
Some words from brother in the Lord, Victor:
You write, “I am confused? If it is the Torah that gives this commandment, should we not honor it? Simcha Torah is a holiday from the Torah, if you don’t remember. Perhaps you didn’t learn that as a child? No excuse, because neither did I. That Wall is half torn down because your cronies tore it down-don’t play stupid with me!”
Yes, Justin, you are confused, and Paul is not “playing stupid” with you. Where do you find the Torah giving any such command? Are you not more than just “playing” stupid? As for the tearing down of the Temple, it was the Jews who tore it down, not with their hands, but with their rebellious hearts, provoking the Holy One of Israel to have it torn down because of their sins:
1 Kings 9:6-9 JPS
(6) But if ye shall turn away from following Me, ye or your children, and not keep My commandments and My statutes which I have set before you, but shall go and serve other gods, and worship them;
(7) then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for My name, will I cast out of My sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a by word among all peoples;
(8) and this house which is so high shall become desolate, and every one that passeth by it shall be astonished, and shall hiss; and when they shall say: Why hath the LORD done thus unto this land, and to this house?
(9) they shall be answered: Because they forsook the LORD their God, Who brought forth their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and laid hold on other gods, and worshipped them, and served them; therefore hath the LORD brought all this evil upon them.
So it is plain that you, Justin, as a Torah idolater, attribute to the Torah that which it does not say, and are wholly ignorant of what It does say.
Is it not a remarkable thing that those who worship the Scriptures as you do are blind to Their contents and essence? Which proves our point – only the Messiah Yeshua HaMashiach can give life to man, and wisdom, and deliver him from himself. He has done so for us, through His Spirit, and not by any effort or virtue of our own. That is the meaning of Ezekiel’s words when he said God would give that very needful new heart:
Ezekiel 36:22-28 JPS
(22) Therefore say unto the house of Israel: Thus saith the Lord GOD: I do not this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My Holy Name, Which ye have profaned among the nations, whither ye came.
(23) And I will sanctify My great Name, Which hath been profaned among the nations, Which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the nations shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
(24) For I will take you from among the nations, and gather you out of all the countries, and will bring you into your own land.
(25) And I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean; from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
(26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.
(27) And I will put My spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep Mine ordinances, and do them.
(28) And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be My people, and I will be your God.
You do demonstrate in your stupidity (which you are not merely “playing”) that you are utterly bereft of any wisdom and understanding. You, Justin, are a damned, self-righteous, religious fool, a rotten copy of what you surmise to be pleasing to God.
Back to Paul:
As Victor brings up, Simchat Torah is not in the Torah. Its existence is due to precisely what we have told you: Jews have made an idol of the Torah and worship It rather than God.
While God commanded the keeping of the Feast of Tabernacles, Succoth, which signifies His coming and dwelling with man (through Jesus Christ and those in Him), you have tacked on Simchat Torah at the end of the holy Feast, lifting your idol above God. You have invented a "holy-day" in honor of your idol, which God commands against in the Torah:
"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you" (Deuteronomy 4:2 JPS).
By violating the Torah, you are not able to keep God’s commandments. Your idol does you no good, because you despise and reject Its Author, serving yourselves instead in all your perverse and unprofitable ways.
Paul
Justin’s response:
"I am not saying we should not honor the Torah."
If you honored the Torah you would follow it. The Jews said at Mount Sinai "We will do and obey."
"faith of Christ"
I have heard this business since I was a kid, and it never moved me. The word Christ is not a Hebrew word. You cannot make an argument against Judaism, or even for Judaism, by using the vernacular of another culture. Hebrew is the "Holy Language" and was designated to be used to convey the ideas in Judaism. The "New Testament" was written in Greek-the language of idolatry and Hellenism. Talking about a belief in a person is not meaningful in Judaism.
"The Jews have made a god of the Torah, while ignoring the God of the Torah."
One of the problems with Christianity, beginning with Yeshu himself was the abandonment of the Oral Torah that was communicated to Moses and passed on to the Jews. Part of that Tradition relates:
The Torah, Israel, and G-d are One
So your above statement is rendered insignificant. The Torah is how G-d choose to reveal Himself in this world. One of the "Ten Commandments" is to believe in G-d so obviously Jews aren’t ignoring Him.
"I am not saying God is a man."
Yes you are!
"He made man in His image, so it is no wonder that He has appeared as a man"
There is a difference between a messenger of G-d and G-d. This leads to replacing G-d with another entity, which is where you are heading.
"His great work for mankind was taking on human existence…"
This is hardcore idolatry-snap out of it!
"We cannot do it on our own; on that the Tenach is very clear."
The Hebrew Bible was compiled by the Men of the Great Assembly. The Talmud explains:
order and authorship of the Hebrew Bible
Who wrote the Scriptures? — Moses wrote his own book and the portion of Balaam18 and Job. Joshua wrote the book which bears his name and [the last] eight verses of the Pentateuch.19 Samuel wrote the book which bears his name and the Book of Judges and Ruth. David wrote the Book of Psalms, including in it the work of the elders, namely, Adam, Melchizedek, Abraham, Moses, Heman, Yeduthun, Asaph, and the three sons of Korah.1 Jeremiah wrote the book which bears his name, the Book of Kings, and Lamentations. Hezekiah and his colleagues wrote (Mnemonic YMSHK)2 Isaiah,3 Proverbs,4 the Song of Songs and Ecclesiastes. The Men of the Great Assembly wrote (Mnemonic KNDG)5 Ezekiel,6 the Twelve Minor Prophets,7 Daniel and the Scroll of Esther. Ezra wrote the book that bears his name8 and the genealogies of the Book of Chronicles up to his own time. This confirms the opinion of Rab, since Rab Judah has said in the name of Rab: Ezra did not leave Babylon to go up to Eretz Yisrael until he had written his own genealogy. Who then finished it [the Book of Chronicles]? — Nehemiah the son of Hachaliah.
The Master has said: Joshua wrote the book which bears his name and the last eight verses of the Pentateuch. This statement is in agreement with the authority who says that eight verses in the Torah were written by Joshua, as it has been taught: [It is written], So Moses the servant of the Lord died there.9 Now is it possible that Moses being dead could have written the words, ‘Moses died there’? The truth is, however, that up to this point Moses wrote, from this point Joshua wrote. This is the opinion of R. Judah, or, according to others, of R. Nehemiah. Said R. Simeon to him: Can [we imagine the] scroll of the Law being short of one word, and is it not written, Take this book of the Law?10 No; what we must say is that up to this point the Holy One, blessed be He, dictated and Moses repeated and wrote, and from this point God dictated and Moses wrote with tears, as it says of another occasion, Then Baruch answered them, He pronounced all these words to me with his mouth, and I wrote them with ink in the book.11 Which of these two authorities is followed in the rule laid down by R. Joshua b. Abba which he said in the name of R. Giddal who said it in the name of Rab: The last eight verses of the Torah must be read [in the Synagogue service] by one person alone?12 — It follows R. Judah and not R. Simeon. I may even say, however, that it follows R. Simeon, [who would say that] since they differ [from the rest of the Torah] in one way, they differ in another.
(18) The parables of Balaam in Num. XXIII, XXIV.
(19) Recording the death of Moses.
(1) To Adam are ascribed the verses, Thine eyes did see mine imperfect substance etc. (Ps. CXXXIX, 16); to Melchizedek Ps. CX; to Moses, Ps. XC. Abraham is identified with Ethan the Ezrahite (Ps. LXXXIX).
(2) h = Yeshaiah (Isaiah); n = Mishle (Proverbs); a = Shir ha-Shirim (Song of Songs); e =Koheleth (Ecclesiastes). The word ‘wrote’ here seems to have the meaning of ‘edited’ or ‘published’.
(3) According to Rashi, Isaiah was executed by Manasseh before he could reduce his own prophecies to writing.
(4) V. Prov. XXV, 1.
(5) e = Ezekiel; b = Shenem ‘Asar (Twelve minor prophets); s = Daniel;d = Megillath Esther (The Scroll of Esther).
(6) Rashi supposes that the reason why Ezekiel did not write his own book was that he lived out of Eretz Yisrael. The same reason applies to Daniel.
(7) Who apparently did not publish their prophecies themselves because they were too small.
(8) This includes Nehemiah.
(9) Deut. XXXIV, 5.
(10) Deut. XXXI, 26. And this was said by Moses before he died.
(11) Jer. XXXVI, 18.
(12) Apparently this means that it is not requisite that another person should stand by him, as in the case of the rest of the Torah. Or it may mean that these eight verses must always be read to (or by) one person only.
It is clear that Jewish Sages wrote down the Scriptures and chose the order and which books to include. Your criticism of Rabbinical Judaism is absolutely illogical. One cannot think the Hebrew Bible is significant and attack the Rabbis or simultaneously!
"In the Tenach, God manifested Himself not only as a man, but also in the flame of fire in the midst of a bush to Moses…"
If you read Rashi, which brings information that is missing in other interpretations other than Orthodox Judaism, he explains that it was an angel within the bush that spoke out to Moses NOT G-d Himself. This is how mistranslation and misinterpretation misleads and leads one to go off the path of Judaism. If you don’t refer to the Oral tradition, it is no wonder you err in your understanding of Jewish Scriptures.
"The word ‘angel’ means ‘messenger.’"
You cannot use words in English to make an argument-English has no meaning in Judaism. Even Yeshu spoke Semitic languages!
"The Messiah is also known as the Messenger (or Angel) of the Covenant"
Where do you get this from-show me. Mashiach means anointed in Hebrew-he is to be a King of the Jewish people and a prophet-not the same as G-d! The purpose of the Messianic Era to so that all nations will come to know G-d is the King of the universe.
"(Malachi 3:1 JPS)"
Eleven years ago when I was in yeshiva studying for conversion to Judaism, I read the entire JPS Tanach. Why did I use a faulty conservative translation? My friends who went with me to the Jewish bookstore where I got it were not observant and they recommended it to me. I was too intimidated by the Hebrew of the Artscroll. Using a valid translation like the Artscroll will clarify a lot of your problems, Paul. It includes the commentaries of major Rabbinical figures and will allow you to understand apparent contradictions that you are seeing in Scriptures. Without offending your intelligence-quoting the JPS shows me that you have a juvenile understanding of Judaism.
"I did not get that from Rashi or any other rabbi, but from God, as confirmed in His written Word."
You didn’t get it from G-d-you got it from a scholar working for the Conservative Jews. A translation is actually a commentary. The meaning of Judaism isn’t conveyed by the words of the Torah it actually comes from the words themselves-their roots and the order they appear in. Don’t quote JPS and tell me this is authentic!
"I am not saying God can die. I am saying God can become a man, can die,.."
Go back and re-read this and tell me what you were smoking when you wrote this. What do you think the Lord thinks about one who writes this kind of nonsense about Him? Do you not have any fear of Heaven?
"The father of those who have the faith of God was not dependent on a book or a place, or on any physical thing, but on God."
Abraham was a prophet. The past 2,000 years have been without prophesy. Because of the decline in generations, that which was understood and transmitted verbally is now written down. Judaism surely is dependent on place-the Land of Israel and especially Jerusalem have an absolutely fundamental role in Judaism. You should know this if you are a real Bible-thumper.
"You are not a son of Abraham, by physical or spiritual birth."
I tell you now that I am an Orthodox convert to Judaism. My name in Hebrew ends "ben Avraham." If you choose to deny this, that is not my fault. Abraham is called "the Price of converts" in the Talmud, and all converts are "ben Avraham" or "bat Sarah," indicating that they are the spiritual children of the Patriarchs. That includes Ruth, Rahav, Onkelos, ect. How does one know who they are descended from? The Talmud says that 8 prophets came from the convert Rahav. How does one know that he is or isn’t a physical decendant of Abraham? The early Christians were Jews who left and were assimilated. Other non-Jews converted to Judaism and have subsequently mixed with the Jewish people. This statement you are making is another false one. Why don’t you be honest-I challenge you-tell me (us) what your lineage is! for all we know you could be anyone.
"The Zohar has things backwards, putting the Torah before God, which is a symptom of the Jewish idolatry I spoke of in my letter. In essence, the Jews have been no different than the heathen – worse, in fact, because to the Jews was given more than the heathen have."
This is Christianity is all its stench. Jealous, disgusting, slanderous hatred of the Jewish People. The only "Jewish idolatry" was that of Yeshu and his confuse-niks in the time of the Mishnah. The Jews received the Torah with ??? ??-an innocent heart, while all of the nations of the earth wanted to negotiate with G-d:
The goyim rejected the Torah and the Jews received it
Essentially this Midrash explains that G-d offered all of the nations the Torah and each had an excuse why it didn’t suit them. The Jews, before knowing what it was eagerly accepted it because they wanted to fulfill they will of G-d. So much for your slandering of the Jews.
"You are imbuing the Torah with a life of its own, apart from God…"
Like the Snake in the Garden, you are trying to rationalize the will of G-d, as to convince one it is not necessary to abide by His precepts. G-d is too much for humans to fathom-that is why when Moses return from Mount Sinai, he had to wear a vail to cover the spiritual radiation that was eminating from him. It was forbidden for Jews to touch the mountain as they awaited the Giving of the Torah-G-d’s presence is too powerful to endure. Only through the revealed aspects of Judaism can one come "close" to G-d.
"Your notion of the holiness of the former Temple mount is pure superstition,"
Your notion of Judaism is pure superstition. It smells of Christianity that you attempt to systematically deconstruct the Torah and its framework. You slander the house of G-d and then pretend that it is religion you are promoting?
"rightly cited and applied in all of our writings…"
You use Jewish scripture to ensnare Jews into idolatry and false worship. JPS is not even a valid translation, sir.
"you are the idolater, not I"
You are both an idolater and a liar.
"where the man of sin now resides"
Gee, is this one of Santa’s little elves you are speaking of? Is this one of your imaginary friends, Paul?
"If you think you will please Him by embracing Judaism (and you do), you are mistaken."
I am pleasing Him by refuting heretics like yourself!
"The Mosque of Omar is representative of your spiritual state of being."
Now your are a Muslim, Paul?
"you react as a stubborn pedant…"
This is a pointless argument-I would say the same about you. You don’t have a command of Hebrew and I would assume, even Greek. I probably know the "New Testament" better than you do, and I didn’t grow up a Christian!
"Because you pray by formally addressing the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, does not mean He hears your prayers. That is more superstition. It is trusting in your religious form, and not in the One you presume to be worshipping. Isaiah addressed this ignorant and lawless spirit:"
Notice I give you the courtesy of quoting your statements and then answering. I don’t just fire away at you. It is not superstition-this is your jealousy of the relationship between the Jews and G-d and your conniving to insert a false intermediary between Him and mankind. Quoting Isaiah is so cliche, Paul. The JPS is childish-go learn Hebrew I think that will correct some of your issues.
"Where do you find the Torah giving any such command?"
Leviticus 23:36
Seven days you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord; on the eighth day shall be a holy gathering to you; and you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord; it is a solemn assembly; and you shall do no labor in it.
In Israel Simchat Torah and Shemini Atzeret are celebrated on the same day-they are a combined holiday. Furthermore, the Shulchan Aruch mentions Simchat Torah explicitly (Orach Chayim 669).
"it was the Jews who tore it down.."
Don’t be insolent here-the wicked Roman Empire-namely Titus-was responsible for this. The fact that Jews were on a low point spiritually doesn’t excuse Rome’s treachery. You Yeshu-types never like to quote this from the prophets:
Ovadia 1:21
And saviors shall ascend Mount Zion to judge the Mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the Lord’s.
Who is Esau? Rome and that which came from it. Who was Ovadia? An Edomite convert to Judaism (Talmud-Sanhedrin 39b).
"So it is plain that you, Justin, as a Torah idolater, attribute to the Torah that which it does not say, and are wholly ignorant of what It does say."
Don’t give me this garbage, stick-boy. Look above and see who is the ignoramus. Furthermore, "we will do and obey!" The Torah is not in Heaven-it was meant to be obeyed here on Earth-not subverted by treachery and false prophets-like your hero Yeshu. It takes two of you weaklings to debate with me-what does that say about you all?
"…those who worship the Scriptures as you do are blind to Their contents and essence?"
It is you who literally worship Jewish scriptures-even not knowing that the same Rabbinical authorities you resent were the ones who compiled them! Who is blind? Torah Judaism is based on an understanding of the Chumash through the Oral Torah which the early Christians abandoned for heathenism, beer and pizza, trailer parks, velvet Elvis, and ham and cheese deluxe! Was it worth it-trading the birthright for tattoos and 2,000 years of world wars?
"you are utterly bereft of any wisdom and understanding"
You are quoting passages from a "Jewish" translation-albeit heretical-of the Torah and I am the one who lacks understanding? Go out and buy yourself an Artscroll, folks! It is juvenile of you to throw the JPS back at me.
"…Simchat Torah is not in the Torah. Its existence is due to precisely what we have told you: Jews have made an idol of the Torah and worship It rather than God."
The Torah is the entire body of Judaism. I showed you why it is celebrated as a Torah holiday in Israel. Furthermore, I have met former J4J converts to Judaism who said they that had "Bar Mitzvas!" This ceremony is Rabbinical as well-did you not know that?
"You have invented a ‘holy-day’ in honor of your idol, which God commands against in the Torah:"
Simchat Torah is Rabbinical outside of Israel-Shemini Atzeret is "from the Torah." However, Hanukkah is a Rabbinically enacted festival that Christians certainly are aware of and I have seen acknowledge and participate in. You are quick to throw out this idolatry nonsense in order to cover up your own transgressions. The Torah gives the Rabbis the authority to make Torah rulings and obliges Jews to follow them:
Deuteronomy 17:11
According to the sentence of the Torah which they shall teach you, and according to the judgment which they shall tell you, you shall do; you shall not decline from the sentence which they shall declare to you, to the right hand, nor to the left.
"By violating the Torah.."
If you are a Christian, why do you care about the Torah?
"serving yourselves instead in all your perverse and unprofitable ways"
Listen here, trailer-boy: You are being a bit lose with your lip. Christians and other non-Jews have done their share of murder and perversion. This is not the way to talk about the Chosen People. It is you who is profiting from the sorrow of the Jews-leeching off of Jewish scriptures in your jealous, angry rage. If you care so much about the Torah’s precepts, why don’t you "make tsuvah" and return to Judaism-if you are a Jew. Furthermore, I have given my background to you and I expect the same from any of you who is responding to me. Also, if you throw aggressive language at me you are going to have it thrown back at you: I give no quarter and don’t turn a cheek. I learned that in Virginia, the hard way from goyim like you all. Don’t expect me to pay heed to quotes from the "JPS." Use your GPS and find the nearest Jewish bookstore and get yourself an Artscroll Chumash because quoting other Jewish heretics complicates your argument, not mine.
Paul’s reply:
Justin, there is no talking sense to an ignorant, belligerent, idolatrous beast. In your perversion and senseless twisting of everything we say, you demonstrate the truth of the Lord Jesus Christ’s words:
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you compass sea and the dry land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, you make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves” (Matthew 23:15).
For the sake of those who may read your blog (if there are any), and for those who come to our site, I will comment on several of your darkened expressions that provide a worthy platform for illumination by the Light of all men.
We say to those who read these words: Watch and see who collects the wages of blasphemy. If we are what Justin says we are, surely we will collect those wages. But if Justin has mocked and cursed the LORD, then God will scorn him, and his curses will fall on his own head. It will not be long before all is made known, even as it is presently for those with eyes to see.
First comment:
"The Torah, Israel, and G-d are One"
Spoken like the true idolater and pretentious sycophant he is.
Does God make Himself one with the world? Isn’t Israel part of and acting like the world? Why else does Israel look to the world for help? Wouldn’t Israel be looking to God if it were one with Him?
Is Israel one with the Torah? "Gay pride" parades, rock-throwing, lawless religious fanatics, and fearful God-deniers who will give the land God gave them to the Muslims, who deny and mock the God of Israel? Where does anyone get the idea that these attitudes reflect what is commanded in the Torah?
But Israel and the Torah, being two of Justin’s gods, have made him blind to reality and God’s righteousness. Justin has no use for either of his objects of worship, except that they give him a platform to play the part of the hero that he might receive praise of men. Meanwhile, his efforts to defend Israel and the Torah bring shame on both, and the wrath of God on him.
Justin: "If you read Rashi, which brings information that is missing in other interpretations other than Orthodox Judaism, he explains that it was an angel within the bush that spoke out to Moses NOT G-d Himself. This is how mistranslation and misinterpretation misleads and leads one to go off the path of Judaism. If you don’t refer to the Oral tradition, it is no wonder you err in your understanding of Jewish Scriptures."
Paul: Rashi is rash, and wrong, according to Moses, who reports what happened at the bush:
"And He said, I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God" (Exodus 3:6 MKJV).
No one but God can claim to be God, without lying, and God does not send liars to speak on His behalf. The oral tradition is always wrong when it goes against His Recorded Word.
Justin: "The past 2,000 years have been without prophesy. Because of the decline in generations, that which was understood and transmitted verbally is now written down."
Paul: The past 2,000 years the Jews have been without prophecy. Which, in timing, is a huge clue to why that is so, but that is lost on a dog. (Now the prophetic word has come back to Israel: The Key for Israel and the Jew.)
Lacking contact with God, the Jews proceeded to add their own carnal thoughts and interpretations to the Tenach, which, whether oral or written, represent the erroneous opinions of men and are not the Word of God.
Justin: "Essentially this Midrash explains that G-d offered all of the nations the Torah and each had an excuse why it didn’t suit them. The Jews, before knowing what it was eagerly accepted it because they wanted to fulfill they will of G-d."
Paul: Who believes this crap? It is self-righteous, self-important wicked nonsense, believed by those who vaunt themselves in such evils. It is certainly not what the Word of God says; not even close.
Here is what the one who wrote much of the Torah had to say to the nation who inherited it:
Deuteronomy 31:26-27 MKJV
(26) Take this Book of the Law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, so that it may be there for a witness against you.
(27) For I know your rebellion and your stiff neck. Behold, while I am still alive with you today, you have been rebellious against the LORD. And how much more after my death?
Isn’t it something how those who seek to worship the Torah for their own glory pervert It instead? Instead of obeying God and receiving the high honor of His calling and great benefits that come by walking in His ways, they try to substitute for their lack by making up lying stories, which dishonor Him, and His Book stands as witness against them, to their shame.
When God made a nation out of Israel in the furnace of Egypt, did they want to fulfill His will? Even if they said they wanted to, what was the reality? Here is but a sampling of what God has said of the matter:
Psalms 78:1-72 KJV
(5) For He established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a Law in Israel, which He commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children:
(6) That the generation to come might know them, even the children which should be born; who should arise and declare them to their children:
(7) That they might set their hope in God, and not forget the works of God, but keep His commandments:
(8) And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God.
(9) The children of Ephraim, being armed, and carrying bows, turned back in the day of battle.
(10) They kept not the covenant of God, and refused to walk in His Law;
(11) And forgat His works, and His wonders that He had shewed them.
(12) Marvellous things did He in the sight of their fathers, in the land of Egypt, in the field of Zoan.
(13) He divided the sea, and caused them to pass through; and He made the waters to stand as an heap.
(14) In the daytime also He led them with a cloud, and all the night with a light of fire.
(15) He clave the rocks in the wilderness, and gave them drink as out of the great depths.
(16) He brought streams also out of the rock, and caused waters to run down like rivers.
(17) And they sinned yet more against Him by provoking the most High in the wilderness.
(18) And they tempted God in their heart by asking meat for their lust.
(19) Yea, they spake against God; they said, Can God furnish a table in the wilderness?
(20) Behold, He smote the rock, that the waters gushed out, and the streams overflowed; can He give bread also? can He provide flesh for his people?
(21) Therefore the LORD heard this, and was wroth: so a fire was kindled against Jacob, and anger also came up against Israel;
(22) Because they believed not in God, and trusted not in His salvation:
(23) Though he had commanded the clouds from above, and opened the doors of heaven…
(30) They were not estranged from their lust. But while their meat was yet in their mouths,
(31) The wrath of God came upon them, and slew the fattest of them, and smote down the chosen men of Israel.
(32) For all this they sinned still, and believed not for His wondrous works.
(33) Therefore their days did He consume in vanity, and their years in trouble.
(34) When He slew them, then they sought Him: and they returned and enquired early after God.
(35) And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.
(36) Nevertheless they did flatter Him with their mouth, and they lied unto Him with their tongues.
(37) For their heart was not right with Him, neither were they steadfast in His covenant…
(40) How oft did they provoke Him in the wilderness, and grieve Him in the desert!
(41) Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.
(42) They remembered not His hand, or the day when He delivered them from the enemy…
(56) Yet they tempted and provoked the most high God, and kept not His testimonies:
(57) But turned back, and dealt unfaithfully like their fathers: they were turned aside like a deceitful bow.
(58) For they provoked Him to anger with their high places, and moved Him to jealousy with their graven images.
So says God in the Torah in contrast to the fantasies of the midrash and the oral traditions of liars.
One of the traditions of liars is the idolatrous "holy day" of Simchat Torah, which God never commanded. Furthermore, He never gave anyone permission to change His Laws:
Justin: "Simchat Torah is Rabbinical outside of Israel…The Torah gives the Rabbis the authority to make Torah rulings and obliges Jews to follow them:
Deuteronomy 17:11
According to the sentence of the Torah which they shall teach you, and according to the judgment which they shall tell you, you shall do; you shall not decline from the sentence which they shall declare to you, to the right hand, nor to the left."
Paul: This is more perversion of the Torah, which justifies itself by the work of man-ordained rabbis who have added to God’s Word and claim it is "oral tradition," giving them special privilege to interpret as they please – no different from the Catholic Church and its claim to spiritual authority by oral tradition contrary to the Scriptures. Here is what the Word of God actually says in this instance:
Deuteronomy 17:8-11 MKJV
(8) If a matter is too hard for you in judgment, between blood and blood, between plea and plea, and between stroke and stroke, matters of strife within your gates, then you shall arise and go up to the place which the LORD your God shall choose.
(9) And you shall come to the priests of the Levites, and to the judge that shall be in those days, and ask. And they shall declare to you the sentence of judgment.
(10) And you shall do according to the sentence which they declare to you from that place which the LORD shall choose. And you shall be careful to do according to all that they tell you.
(11) According to the sentence of the Law which they shall teach you and according to the judgment which they shall tell you, you shall do. You shall not turn aside from the sentence which they shall show you, to the right hand or the left.
The judgment was given to the Levites, who served in the tabernacle God had ordained. The Jews no longer have either, the priesthood or the tabernacle, so they cannot substitute the contrivances of these self-appointed rabbis for His judgment.
Furthermore, the judgments the priests or judge gave was according to the Law, and not in contradiction to the Law, as we show these rabbinical judgments are.
Which brings us to "Simchat Torah." I asked Justin: "Where do you find the Torah giving any such command?"
Justin: "Leviticus 23:36
Seven days you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord; on the eighth day shall be a holy gathering to you; and you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord; it is a solemn assembly; and you shall do no labor in it.
In Israel Simchat Torah and Shemini Atzeret are celebrated on the same day-they are a combined holiday. Furthermore, the Shulchan Aruch mentions Simchat Torah explicitly (Orach Chayim 669)."
Paul: We see no commandment there to dance and sing with Torah scrolls. The Torah strictly forbids adding to His Word:
"Never add anything to what I command you, or take anything away from it. Then you will be able to obey the commands of the LORD your God that I give you" (Deuteronomy 4:2 GW).
The "Shulchan Aruch" is another treacherous piece of spiritual knavery, abusing God’s Word. It should be burnt with fire and put away forever, for all those who would know and love the God of Israel.
Victor wrote to Justin:
"As for the tearing down of the Temple, it was the Jews who tore it down, not with their hands but with their rebellious hearts, provoking the Holy One of Israel to have it torn down because of their sins:
1 Kings 9:6-9 JPS
(6) But if ye shall turn away from following Me, ye or your children, and not keep My commandments and My statutes which I have set before you, but shall go and serve other gods, and worship them;
(7) then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for My Name, will I cast out of My sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a by word among all peoples;
(8) and this house which is so high shall become desolate, and every one that passeth by it shall be astonished, and shall hiss; and when they shall say: Why hath the LORD done thus unto this land, and to this house?
(9) they shall be answered: Because they forsook the LORD their God, Who brought forth their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and laid hold on other gods, and worshipped them, and served them; therefore hath the LORD brought all this evil upon them."
Notice that Justin’s answer avoids mention altogether of the Scriptures (though in other places he finds fault with the Jewish Publication Society translation, but never explains the errors of what we have quoted, giving Biblical substance to back his complaint):
Justin: "Don’t be insolent here-the wicked Roman Empire-namely Titus-was responsible for this. The fact that Jews were on a low point spiritually doesn’t excuse Rome’s treachery. You Yeshu-types never like to quote this from the prophets:
Ovadia 1:21
And saviors shall ascend Mount Zion to judge the Mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the Lord’s.
Who is Esau? Rome and that which came from it. Who was Ovadia? An Edomite convert to Judaism (Talmud-Sanhedrin 39b)."
Paul: I suppose the last part is to impress us with the fact that Justin considers himself just such a convert. What we see in him, however, is a dog dressed up as a Jewish religious fanatic, having nothing to do with God or the keeping of His Law, but who is twice the child of hell of the religious Jews who fathered him.
As for this Scripture in particular, who says we don’t like to quote it? It is quoted several times on our site. But since when can this man be counted on to speak the truth? If anything comes out of his boastful and pretentious mouth, you know it is a lie. As a Jew who knew the Torah and God said of such:
Titus 1:10-12 MKJV
(10) For there are indeed many unruly men, vain talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,
(11) whose mouth you must stop, who subvert whole houses, teaching things not right for the sake of ill gain.
(12) One of them, a prophet of their own, said, Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.
Paul Cohen
We Are Cursed for The Key
It was expected, as one would expect pus and putrefaction to emerge from a boil that was lanced. Cleansing and healing will follow, because God has ordained it for His people. Will you, Israel, identify with the pus or the Doctor?
Other responses to "The Key" and our replies:
- Moshe: Paul, I am surprised that you would send an email to me. You certainly know that I think that the claims of Christianity are no more true then…
Read full response and Paul’s reply. - Marc: You write something distressing in your message below, namely equating Hitler and Muhammed’s respective positions on Jews. This is…
Read full response and Paul’s reply. - Uri: You must be kidding. On thepathoftruth.com, a rather unusual Christian web-site, you list two of my friends and co-religionists, Rabbis Ken Spiro…
Read full response and Paul’s reply. - David: While your letter was addressed to the Jews and the nation of Israel, it is hoped that you, Paul, the original author, will read and, if you open your…
Read full response and Paul’s reply. - Ira: Paul, Thank you for your article. How are you feeling? Take care of…
Read full response and Paul’s reply. - Michelle: Remove me from this email list immediately. You are not a Jew…
Read full response and Paul’s reply. - Justin: I converted to Judaism! … idolatry is forbidden in Judaism, even…
Read full response and Paul’s reply. - Margaret: The reason for His killing was that a few unpopular religious nuts were jealous of the Christ’s popularity with the jews. You can find this…
Read full response and Paul’s reply. - HH: STOP bothering everybody You did’nt ask permission to send us email…
David: If you hurry up, you can return your gift in time to get a refund…
Read full responses and Paul’s reply. - Charlotte: It is true that Jesus died for all people, especially came for the Jews. But the Bible does not tell us to convert them, but to pray for them…
Read full response and Paul’s reply. - Ariel: I killed jc myself, with my own hands. He was a pig and you are a pig…
Read full response and Paul and Victor’s replies.
Jews, Why I Am for You
What the God of Israel has done for me, and what He will do for you.
Your God Stands for You, Israel
A Letter of Promise, Hope, and Exhortation to the Dispersed and Oppressed Uncircumcised-in-Heart Seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob
We witness the ungodly and unjust hatred for Jews everywhere and consider there is something important going on. We are also in awe of the marvelous historical developments and events, knowing very well, by God’s grace, that man cannot do what has developed concerning the Jews at any time, perhaps especially in this last century. Here is a letter of promise to God’s chosen in the flesh, based on His faithfulness and awesome power:
“I, even I, am He Who comforts you: who are you, that you are afraid of man who shall die, and of the son of man who shall be made as grass; and have forgotten the LORD your Maker, Who stretched forth the Heavens, and laid the foundations of the earth…?” (Isaiah 51:12-13 HNV)
Israel, Is Your God Unjust?
“Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but the LORD weighs the hearts” (Proverbs 21:2 HNV).
Israel, come hear the Word of God, and let your hearts be revealed; know the Truth and be reconciled to Your Father. It is time. Of what value is it to continue in darkness, not knowing Him and His heart towards you, Who has loved you from days of old and draws you with lovingkindness?
Israel, the Explanation for the Horrendous Contradictions You Suffer
Israel, your God knows and sees what you suffer. He is not remote, unfamiliar, or unaffected by what is happening with you. There is a reason for your predicament, however, a reason that holds the key to the solution for all. There is an answer from God, which you need to hear and know.
The Key for Israel and the Jew
Jews, you have tried everything to be at peace, to have dialogue with, and to appease, the world. You have tried everything, and nothing has worked, because you lacked the simple solution. Here is the key for Israel, the Jew, and the whole world.