“The sluggard buries his hand in the dish and will not even bring it back to his mouth” (Proverbs 19:24 ESV).
From: Paul Cohen and Victor Hafichuk
To: Blake
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 4:10 PM
Subject: Your Story
Hi Blake,
I’ve replied in your letter below in this color:
Hello Paul and Victor,
I know this is long but I think I get out the important information. I just let the thoughts roll.
Dear Victor and Paul,
I wanted to write to you about my experience with Lifechurch.tv and Craig Groeschel but was waiting for Jesus to tell me to write you. I’ve had a small thought to write to you all for a couple of weeks. I don’t have discernment when hearing from the Lord or when He is speaking so I have to wait for these urges. That’s the best I know how to listen for now.
The Lord is perfectly capable of communicating when He chooses to speak. If you don’t know whether He’s talking to you, it’s because He isn’t. Even the greedy Balaam knew it when God spoke to him, as did Cain.
It’s not necessarily a problem that you aren’t hearing from Him. God isn’t talking all the time, as some religious think – that all you have to do is tune into Him like you would a radio frequency. The truth is, if you walk in the light with Him, you’ll be receptive to the truth that will guide you as you proceed on the path He has laid out before you.
Wanting to write to us as you have is a good thing. The Lord doesn’t have to be speaking for you to feel compelled to move forward in the light you’ve been given, seeking Him for more. That’s the effect of His good seed planted in the ground and given some water.
I’m tempted to hide my words and choose them carefully because I know you both have gift for scrutinizing what people write to you. But I’ll choose to type freely and see what happens. If I come off a fool, then it wouldn’t be a surprise. I know you all have a lot to read and respond to and this is lengthy because it fits better if I provide you some background on me and the so called “church.”
Bringing things into the light is good, when coupled with a willingness to be corrected and directed in His ways. Coming off as a fool isn’t something you should be concerned about – it’s remaining a fool that would be the problem. Receiving instruction in godliness will deliver you from destruction and build your faith – all very desirable. Look to Him – not yourself, whether in weakness or strength.
I didn’t grow up attending a church institution. My parents took my sister and me a few times when we were little. I do remember these times. Outside of that, I bugged my dad to take me and we did go. I’m not sure what I was driven for at such a young age. Perhaps my spirit understood the desire to be closer to the Father and the carnal mind said “You need to be at church.” That didn’t last for long.
Men’s churches aren’t the way to the Father. But there was something else you were looking for besides God, which you talk about in the next paragraph.
I had tried going to many churches throughout middle school and high school by myself. Methodist, Lutheran, Baptist, Southern Baptist, Presbyterian, Non denominational, Episcopalian, Church of Christ. I was met with the same condescending eyes from the parents. I was at the bottom end of the political and monetary garbage game these abominations play at their “church.” I never felt comfortable, never was welcomed, never was corrected for sin, never was anything really other than looked down upon. I wanted to go learn more about the Lord and I didn’t have a Bible at that time. I so desperately wanted a family that would welcome me, teach me, care for me, and for Jesus to draw near. I never got it and still desire that.
You wanted to belong, to be accepted, to have people caring about you. There’s nothing wrong with any of those things, but if you put them before God, it’s because you’re serving yourself and will therefore be subject to your corrupt lusts and sins.
“How can you believe, which receive honor one of another, and seek not the honor that comes from God only?” (John 5:44 KJV)
Not getting what you sought left you bitter and disillusioned, both of which indicate the flesh and not faith was at work.
For example – you surely could have found or obtained a Bible if you were motivated to learn of God, but that wasn’t where your heart was.
“For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also” (Luke 12:34 MKJV).
Thinking of going to one of these churches makes my stomach roll just thinking about it. Yuck. Lots more details here but I’m not sure they are relevant.
That yuck feeling about churches in general stayed with me in college. I tried joining a “Christian” fraternity and was met with fake believers. Again it was based on how popular, how much money you had, how many girls liked you attitude. There were a few there really looking for fellowship and had a desire for Christ but very few. I dropped out of that and fell further into sin at that point.
“And because lawlessness will increase, the love of many will grow cold” (Matthew 24:12 EMTV). You weren’t and have never been situated on the Rock, Blake. Don’t take this as condemnation, but as hope of better things ahead if now coming to the One and Only Sure Foundation.
I started hanging out with those in my engineering courses because they accepted me for who I was. I was a nerd without a lot of money, not that good looking, fat, depressed, and full of sin. But at least they were real with me. I even told God at one point when I was so into my studies that if He would get me through college I would turn back to Him. What a joke. I’m surprised He didn’t drop me right then.
We’re never in a position to bargain with God because we’ve never had anything to offer Him. If we do have anything of value, particularly eternal value, it comes from Him alone and is His already. You’d have no need of the Savior if you have your own righteousness to offer Him.
You didn’t have faith in the first place, so that you could turn back to God after losing it. You had certain beliefs and conviction of conscience, but that’s not the same thing as faith in Christ.
And telling God you’d turn away from your sins and idols doesn’t mean you were turning to Him. You were pledging something of your own power and initiative, not His, so God didn’t drop you when you made that promise because you weren’t His to be dropped. You were acting on your own.
But He alone is gracious and merciful and full of wrath.
“He who believes on the Son has everlasting life, and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides upon him” (John 3:36 MKJV).
That’s a law. You either believe or you don’t – have life or wrath. And it’s only by His doing that we believe and have life:
“For He said to Moses, ‘I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.’ So then it is not of the one willing, nor of the one running, but of God, the One showing mercy” (Romans 9:15-16 MKJV).
I was treating my studies as an idol. I also developed an arrogance about how “smart” I was just because I was passing difficult courses with A’s. Yes I did graduate at the top of my class and had many job offers but it was and still is very empty.
Nonetheless, one of my few friends in my life continued to bug me after college to go to church with her at Lifechurch.tv. I put her off time and time again. She was persistent and so was God. I needed to honor my agreement with Him (even if He never agreed to it). He got me through college and I needed to repent. I had that yuck feeling in my stomach and went anyway to one of the remote campuses which watches the sermon on projector screens. One thing I noticed was that the place was packed and there was lots of energy. I wasn’t met with staring eyes. In fact, no one seemed to notice me other than the person who handed me the program and said hello. I loved it. The teaching was good, short, and I didn’t feel suffocated. This was the only time I went and I moved to Tulsa, Oklahoma for my job.
You returned to the whore of Babylon, attired in a more seductive form.
I still wasn’t honoring my agreement with the Lord and didn’t go to church in Tulsa either. Now I was alone and didn’t know anyone to go with who could shield me from the condemnation if it came. My job I took in Tulsa didn’t pan out due to lack of projects. I saw the writing on the wall and was able to get a job at the oil refinery in town. They do routine physicals and needless to say, the blood work showed me to be in very bad condition with all of the markers for heart disease risk. I saw my mortality at that point and had to turn to the God I ignored for so long for help. I’m not sure what verse it is where God says He won’t listen when we come crying in situations like this after ignoring Him. The bad health was a result of my decisions in college to study so hard, ignore God, eat unhealthy things, and I found alcohol which led to more sin. What an awful period of life.
Casting aside God’s laws and the common sense He’s made available to us always leads to destruction. The Scripture you refer to is likely Proverbs 1:24 -33, where the foolish can’t find wisdom because they hated knowledge and rejected the fear of God.
I decided to honor my commitment to turn to the Lord with God. Not to get well but because He was able to bring me to my knees to show me how limited my time was. I think the health issue was the only way for Him to get me to see it. He came to me. I went to the only church that I felt wouldn’t hate me and that was Lifechurch. They had a nearby campus and I went by myself. I even had traded emails with one of the staff members at that time. He was the one to greet me and guide me to the auditorium where they held service at the local elementary school. Lifechurch wasn’t huge at this point and they met in schools when they didn’t have buildings. I attended every week and found a group once a week with peers where we would discuss the sermons. I was in my Bible regularly and felt like I was in love with Jesus for the first time in my life. I had the desire for Him, I didn’t feel alone when I prayed. My physical health didn’t improve but my spiritual health did.
Again, at the very best, your turning to God was a mixed bag, seeking acceptance of man along with moral support in making some lifestyle changes and doing good works. You found some relief from sin, some purpose and companionship, but not the Lord. He was never there.
I had three jobs in life: Increase physical activity to help my body, increase my spiritual health, and work my normal job. It was probably the easiest time in my life and I miss it in some ways. I was part of the team that set up church at the elementary school. I felt like I was making a difference. I tithed for the first time.
It was a close community but that changed year later… Even my wife can attest to how much it changed once the new expensive building was completed. It was all about how many butts can be in the chairs, how much money was made, etc. I’ll go into the church in more detail in sections in which I was involved.
Volunteering: The church has multiple services on Saturday and Sunday. Each service has a host team leader which tells the volunteers whether to hand out the program, make tea, hand out free donuts, sign people up for church groups, parking lot team, child room supervision and teaching, Wednesday night youth nights etc. I had served long enough to be a host team leader. I can say that the people that serve think they are doing what the Lord wants them to do. Shoot, I even thought I was doing something good. We smiled at the doors, we greeted those who came in. I went wrong in my head because I was walking down the “works” path.
Lifegroups: These were the groups that met outside of the Saturday/Sunday services. They are meant to cultivate something similar to the smaller churches the early Christians had. While intimate at first, my group grew to where there were so many people it was more of a party than to learn about God. We tried splitting up the early 20s group into 3 groups which all fell apart eventually. Most people are fake in that they don’t want to dedicate time to the group. If kids, girlfiends/boyfriends, activities got in the way, then they wouldn’t come. Jesus wasn’t first. I think this still remains a problem. After many issues with the singles groups, then the married groups. I stopped going.
The Lord never was first there, Blake. What you saw was the ripening fruit from the seed Satan planted. “Concerning the works of men, by the Words of Your lips, I am kept from the paths of the destroyer” (Psalms 17:4 MKJV).
Wednesday night youth: Even Craig Groeschel said he wouldn’t send his own kids to the youth night called Switch. He was right. It was a way for the parents to drop their kids off and to let them run crazy. I was the 6th grade boys leader and it was difficult. I took over after the leader and friend passed away. I thought God would want me to step in to fill the void. This wasn’t a good decision. I did my best but the boys there didn’t care to learn anything about Jesus. They were there to play and to hang out with the girls. It was a mess. At least the church put on a video each time to get the kids attention but after that any discussion was worthless. After working my rear off and having the youth “pastor” order me around, it was time for me to quit this.
Craig Groeschel and Lifechurch comments:
This church comes off as the hip church, the best church, the church that claims to make people “fully devoted followers of Christ.” It didn’t make me a fully devoted follower and no one else that I saw either. They did bring me in and for a short while, Jesus was able to use it with me. But it did fall apart and I was led away and out of it. The sermons are only an hour and then they rush you out to get the next group in. They may have 1 or 2 bible verses in them. It’s like a guide to being successful in life more than anything else. It’s also like herding cattle. Get them in, get their money and get them out.
Most people were very fake. It began turning into Babylon. Who had the best clothes, car, kids, blah blah blah. You could not tell a difference between the church and the world. I noticed this while attending and as I was dropping out of things. As the church grew, the intimacy and dedication to Jesus fell apart and still is in my opinion. This church has a revolving door with new people coming in and old people leaving when they are led out. They have thousands that attend each week because they can do their duty of going to church but without having to change anything about their lives.
The changes you experienced and perhaps saw in others before things started going “south,” weren’t coming out of the Repentance preached by the Lord and His ministers.
Tithing and Money: The last straw for us was the tithing sermons. Lifechurch had a guest speaker teach the “Greed Faith” is what I call it. I’m sure you’ve heard it, I gave God $10,000 and in return I got a boat kind of crap. I barely made it through that sermon. Since when is giving to God going to get you something in return? We’ve already received Jesus…what else could we possibly need?
It’s certainly true that believers taught of God and walking in faith don’t give to Him for the sake of getting physical things (an utterly abhorrent thought), but it’s also certainly true that God Himself promises wonderful things to those who honor Him with their physical substance:
“Bring all the tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house. And test Me now with this, says the LORD of Hosts, to see if I will not open the windows of Heaven for you, and pour out a blessing for you, until there is not enough room” (Malachi 3:10 MKJV).
Our campus “pastor” also gave us a lowdown on how they categorize churches within the system. They are labeled as Tier 1, Tier 2, and Tier 3. Tier 1 churches don’t bring in enough money to support their church, Tier 2 bring in just enough, and Tier 3 is above and beyond and supports the Tier 1 church and other projects. I was disgusted. He would ask again and again for more money so we could stay a Tier 3 church. I’m convinced he receives a bonus based on this. The hope I had there was gone. It had begun to love money and treat it as an idol. Maybe it was there the whole time but it wasn’t necessary for me to see at that point?
It was there, and you had to be brought to the point of seeing it, to be disillusioned from your false hope and the god you had made of church.
I had gotten into many heated discussions about giving money to the church when they had a $3,000,000 surplus and brought in $24,000,000 which I’m sure has increased. God doesn’t need our money to accomplish anything. I’d rather not give anything to Satan’s church.
They could have all the money in the world and still wouldn’t be doing God’s work, because they aren’t following Him. They’re following Craig Groeschel, who is following Satan, doing his own thing.
You’ll notice too that most of the buildings are located in wealthy areas. I mean what better place to bring in money right?
Craig Groeschel:
He comes off as sincere and is a great speaker. He keeps the audience interested but I am in agreement with your writings. I think in the softball field he met with lucifer and is now receiving the money, man’s love, and the world. I laughed when I heard people were lined up at Sams Club to get his autograph on his new book. What a joke. Idol worship again.
People worship him like a celebrity. You’ve seen it when people write you. They will defend him at any cost even if they are wrong. He’s the greatest thing since Jesus right? WRONG. He’s another false pastor leading his flock astray. His day will come when he is in front of the Lord. He’ll realize who he was really talking to on that softball field. I’ve heard he flies off the handle in his office at times. I had completely forgotten that until writing this. Not a pretty picture.
The world loves him and he loves the world. He comes as an angel of light but is full of darkness. He is blinded in that he thinks that he is doing the right things. But it’s all sickening looking back. There’s no way I would have been able to discuss anything with him face to face. He has a body guard and I was just a lowly attendee/volunteer. I certainly am not a great Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, Mark Driscoll. *sarcasm*
Blake, bitterness will not do. You need to take your eyes off of men and yourself and put them on the Lord. Your disdain of false ministers is just the other side of the coin of men’s worship of them. Furthermore, all men are guilty before God and you just happen to be a man yourself.
My overall impression of the church is that it’s full of wolves. It’s full of those who the Lord will not recognize and will send them away. They never knew the Lord but are in love with the world. God is bigger than the church and He has and does use it for a purpose in at least me. It was a device used to teach me and to show me His love and to bring me back to Him. He came to me and broke me down. He used it for a time and brought me out of it and now I share his disgust in its sins. It whores itself out to the world.
You haven’t believed the things we’ve told you. The truth has been set before you, but you haven’t embraced it with all your heart, so you’re stuck in the mud where you were when you first came to us for help. Things are rotting and you can smell it. It’s past high time to ramp up and get serious before the Lord, don’t you think?
And what did you make of our time of prayer and fasting? Did that strike no chord of recognition within yourself of your great need for the Lord?
The overall tone of your letter seems to indicate you’d like to be accommodated by others as it suits you. The cross of Christ is the opposite. Christ took up the cross that men might be saved, not condemned. If you want to have anything to do with Him, you’ll have to take up your cross without further thought and energy wasted on how others aren’t taking up their crosses. Condemning them is only condemning yourself.
That’s all for now. I couldn’t possibly include all details. Please ask if you have any questions.
-Blake
Paul and Victor
From: Blake
To: Paul and Victor
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: Your Story
Thank you for writing and I agree with all that you said.
I haven’t embraced The truth. I’m not sure I know how. I do enjoy praise from men. I like it because it makes me feel comfortable and accepted. I’ve never been accepted so it’s that sin I chase among other sins.
I’m not sure how to get out. I know Jesus is the way out but I don’t understand how to get to the gate for Him to consider letting me in. You once told me to wait on Him. The more I waited, the further I fell into darkness. I probably didn’t wait how I should have waited.
These emails from you don’t seem like condemnation other than they hit my spirit with what it already knows. I’ve rejected Christ my whole life and come to him as it pleases me. I heap condemnation on myself. The bitterness toward those not carrying their cross is me trying to convince myself I’m okay. I’m certainly not.
God has never spoken to me. I don’t think He will. I don’t think He will save me. It’s why I beg and plead with Him knowing full well He wants nothing to do with my filth. It’s an ugly truth but that I can understand. I can’t understand Him because I don’t know Him and never have.
I know I’m going to be one He turns away and says He never knew. Maybe that’s my place in His story.
I have been paying attention to fasting. I don’t think there is much point to fast right now because I don’t desire closeness to The Lord. I would do it because of the health benefits which only serves me. If I’m only doing it for that, I don’t see why I should do it at all.
I do appreciate you both taking the time to help. I feel as if it’s energy wasted on me. I’ve always stayed in the same place. 30 years of staying in the same place.
I don’t know how to change. I know that if I need to lose weight, I can eat less and exercise. How can I know The Lord? I haven’t the slightest clue.
Bitterness, hatred, anger burns in me at myself. This manifests onto others. I only show fruits of darkness.
I know the state I’m in. Confusion and hell. I’ve been given that much wisdom.
I don’t know how to pick up my cross or what that looks like. I can’t even pick it up unless he allows me to.
I’m rambling now. Thank you both again.
I’ll continue reading over your site and read the bible and pray.
– Blake