The Path of Truth Forum

I sent an e-mail to Victor and Paul and Paul asked me to post it here:

Hello! I wanted to let you know that I have been thinking about the Bible the last few days, and have been in a discussion about the KJV with someone who thinks the KJV is the "only good and perfect translation that exists."

In the past, I have had problems that this person has, trying to explain the problems in this translation or that, thinking that there just HAD to be a perfect translation out there, that God would preserve His Word down through time, in some way, and that to think if there were errors, additions, deletions, insertions, and so on, that that was somehow a reflection on the Lord, that He was incapable of maintaining "the oracles of the Lord" (indeed, as many nonbelievers claim as good reason for not believing. "If God can't even prevent errors in the BIBLE....")

But now, as the Lord has given to you to share with the world the understanding that NO translation is "perfect", and not only that, but purposely so, by His design, so that we would place our trust not in the written word, but rather in Him, another tower of doubt and defeat has fallen, another stronghold of fear and pride destroyed.

It is so simple, and yet so revolutionary, to not have to sit and worry that God's word wasn't perfect, and therefore He might not be, either. Rather, as we trust in Him, we needn't worry AT ALL about what is, and what is not, His word in Scripture, that if we trust in HIM, HE will reveal what we need to know from Scripture, when we need to know it, and how to discern between the true and the false (and not just in Scripture, but in all of life.)

Peace, peace, real, genuine peace, resting in the One Who is perfect, rather than the written word which is not. Rather than trying to cover up and make excuses for the shortcomings of the KJV and ANY translation, being afraid that the explanations never *quite* answer all the objections, the answer is simple: Trust in the Lord, and He will direct your path (through Scripture and all of life.) Light, dispelling darkness. The wisdom of the Lord is so elegant. Words can't really express how I feel, but I'm sure you understand what I mean.

Thank the Lord, and thank you for being His willing servants. I rejoice at what the Lord has given and is giving!

Joe Vonheeder

To that, I wanted to add: I understand a little bit more about Bibliolatry, making an idol of the Bible. When one worships the written word, by placing one's trust in it, even something as worthwhile as the written record of God's dealings with man, anything that threatens that idol they will fiercely defend and protect, refusing to even consider any challenge or even question that may come up. As always, the idol serves the worshipper, and not the other way around. Every time I trust in that which isn't the Lord, the fall is as inevitable as the sun rising in the East.

Amen and amen, Joe! I appreciate your very clear expression here.

Hi Joe and everyone,

Well written Joe, this sums up the Bible for me.

"Joh 19:35 And he who saw bore record, and his record is true. And he knows that he speaks true, so that you might believe."

Dan

Well written, Joe. Good reminder to place our trust in Him.

Yes, amen. Really appreciate this, Joe.

Yes, Joe I have been there, as a bibliolatry worshiper. Most people don't hear from God, so they have to say He speaks through the bible only or the KJV. Which He does speak through the bilbe but He is alive and speaks through everything for it all belongs to Him.

The Bible is not God. The Bible does not contain all of God’s knowledge. While the Bible gives principles that apply to every situation, it does not explicitly give us all the information we need to daily live our lives. Part of the problem is that some Christians take the saying “the Bible says it, that settles it, I believe it” to extremes. While the statement is absolutely true and should reflect how we view the Bible, God’s Word does not instruct us to abandon our brains or ignore our experiences. True reason is completely compatible with Scripture. Experience can help us in our understanding of Scripture. While the Bible must be our authority, we must also use it to confirm and verify the conclusions we reach with our God-given reason and God-directed experience (1 Peter 3:15). Believing what the Bible says about itself is not bibliolatry. Rather, accepting God’s Word for what it claims to be is in fact worshipping the God who breathed it.

Quoting John McIntire: "Believing what the Bible says about itself is not bibliolatry. Rather, accepting God’s Word for what it claims to be is in fact worshipping the God who breathed it."

Only when God revealed Himself to me through Jesus Christ did I know the Bible was God's Word. I never had to accept the Bible as God's Word, because I KNEW it was by His revelation. Praise God for His work of grace through faith!

Paul

Paul, "God revealed Himself to me through Jesus Christ"
Did God spoke to you directly like He spoke to Mozes ,about Jesus?
John 7:37-39. in v38 Jesus said " He who believes in Me,as the Scripture
has said,out of his heart will flow rivers of living water".
Many false religions believe in Jesus ,but not the Jesus of the Bible.

John McIntire wrote:Paul, "God revealed Himself to me through Jesus Christ"
Did God spoke to you directly like He spoke to Mozes ,about Jesus?
John 7:37-39. in v38 Jesus said " He who believes in Me,as the Scripture
has said,out of his heart will flow rivers of living water".
Many false religions believe in Jesus ,but not the Jesus of the Bible.

Yes, John, God spoke to me directly, but not as you think of speech. I wasn't sitting down one day and heard God say something distinct. Rather, God opened my mind and heart to receive the truth about Himself coming in the flesh as a man, our Lord and Savior. In other words, I had the Jesus of the Bible revealed to me, just as Jesus said it would be:

"No one can come to Me unless the Father Who has sent Me draw him, and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:44 MKJV).

And it didn't stop there. He has led me to this day:

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me" (John 10:27 MKJV).

Paul

Since Paul doesn't put his trust in the bible, then he is not putting his trust in God since the written word is not only from God, it is God. (Jn 1:1-2, Jn 1:14, 2 Tim. 3:16).

Jn 1:14 "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us."

Notice that God gives us the pronoun "his" to describe the Word. John 1:1-2 also explains that God the Father, Son and the Word are all one.

So if Paul doesn't trust the bible then he doesn't know who God is or anything about him. He is therefore undermining the very source which tells us who Jesus is, thus contradicting himself.

One then wonders where Paul gets his beliefs about God except from his imagination which then makes his beliefs imaginary, and not real. He certainly can't quote the bible which he thinks is untrustworthy. But since the bible describes who Jesus is by those who witnessed his life and "every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses", along with the fact that Scripture tells us not to go beyond what is written (1 Co. 4:6, Rev. 22:18) then I'll go with what the bible says, not what people who didn't witness the life of Christ say. Acts 1:21-22.

And lastly, since Paul Cohen says that the bible is untrustworthy, but instead, that he himself is the source of absolute truth, then Paul is also playing God, not just discrediting the bible. That's a false teacher and prophet.

1Co 1:27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1Co 1:28 and God has chosen the base things of the world, and things which are despised, and things which are not, in order to bring to nothing things that are;
1Co 1:29 so that no flesh should glory in His presence.
1Co 1:30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who of God is made to us wisdom and righteousness and sanctification and redemption;
1Co 1:31 so that, according as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the Lord."


The Lord is not a book, a book can not give one to repent, a book can not give peace, a book can not raise the dead.

Dan

Amen, Dan.

I see Heidi like a traveler who is lost yet provided a map that points her in the right direction. She becomes enamored by the map itself, and its power and clarity to give direction. Desiring to be somebody, she set herself to become a map expert, not realizing she is still lost, having never reached The Intended Destination.

"You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life. And they are the ones witnessing of Me, and you will not come to Me that you might have life" (John 5:39-40 MKJV)

"...ever learning and never able to come to the full knowledge of the truth"
(2 Timothy 3:7 MKJV)

"For they changed the truth of God into a lie, and they worshiped and served the created thing more than the Creator, Who is blessed forever. Amen." (Romans 1:25 MKJV).

Here is another correspondence with Heidi that demonstrates her worship of the Bible and contempt for the Lord of the Bible:

http://thepathoftruth.com/forum/viewtop ... =67&t=1366" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Heidi, you're getting all confused and mixed up. Why not read what's on the Website, properly, before hanging on to your http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings/opinion.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ?

First thing I happened to notice in your writing is that you accuse true servants of the Lord and yet, you cannot take the time, trouble or respect to use an uppercase "H" when speaking about Our Father? Strange.

Beryl.

Ronnie Tanner wrote:"You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life. And they are the ones witnessing of Me, and you will not come to Me that you might have life" (John 5:39-40 MKJV)

Amen, Ronnie!

Heidi, Paul and Victor, if moved by God, will answer you, although I believe they have already, but I am compelled to ask: where do you get your audacious claims?

Paul and Victor do believe in the Bible and it's credible testimony of HaShem and His manifestation Lord Jesus Christ. They don't "worship" it, as in hold it in reverence above The Living God. That would be idolatry.

Paul is not "playing" God, nor is Victor for that matter. They are God's servants, forsaking their own lives to serve those whom God has called. Lord willing, you will be given eyes to see this.

From the Scriptures that you claim to believe are God's Word:

“Very truly I tell you, whoever accepts anyone I send accepts me; and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me.””
‭‭John‬ ‭13:20‬

God has sent Victor and Paul. Can you accept this? Read their testimonies, and I pray, for your sake, God will open your eyes to see this. By His abundant grace, He undoubtedly will in His time and His way.

~Brandon

Brandon, Dan, Beryl and Ronnie, Amen and Amen.

Heidi, I never knew the living Lord like I know Him now. The Lord has revealed Himself and corrected, rebuked and humbled me through His servants over here. It is not about being a scholastic with the writing or scriptures but being acquainted with the living Author!

"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Jeremiah 10:31 WEB

Many were too focused (worshipping) and trusting the scriptures but failed to recognise the living Author when He walked the earth in the flesh. Many are still blinded today despite their knowledge in the Bible.

Heidi, what did the believers of old such as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, and Moses do without the written Word of God? Was there no Living Word of God? How did the saints ever find their way without the Bible?
Jesus says, "My sheep hear My voice [not read], and I know them, and they follow Me" (John 10:27).

You've got your face so firmly planted in a book (the Bible, the written Word of God) that you have no use for the Living Word of God and can't see or hear anything. You are not a sheep, otherwise, you would hear the Living Word of God:

"Jesus answered them, I told you, and you believed not: the works that I do in My Father's Name, they bear witness of Me. But you believe not, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you" (John 10:25, 26).

Contrary to your accusations, we love the Written Word of God because written by the Living Word of God, yet we know and honor the Writer above the Written, even as one would credit a surgeon over the marvelous instruments he wields on our behalf.

Amen, Marilyn. Thank you.
Beryl.