I stumbled upon your testimony while researching a book recommended by a coworker. God sure did pull you out of the muck and mire......just like He did me! I had a salvation experience that was physically detectable. I had prayed several times to "be saved", but I never really meant it until one night in fear and anger and frustration, I really cried out to God and at that moment of salvation I felt as though I was mildly shocked and I could just feel a burden lifted off of me. It's hard to describe and I have never met anyone who describes their experience in this way. I was around 13 at the time.
Well, about the time I was a junior in high school, I began to backslide. I joined the Navy after high school and became a full out prodigal. I became a drinker, partier, addicted to pornography and masturbation, and of course utterly absorbed with myself. I finally got sick of that lifestyle and being away from God and slowly began to get back into church and to study God's word, and try to "live Holy".
As you know this doesn't work on your own. I was baptized at the age of 38, 25 years after my salvation. I grew up in a "pentecostal" church so I knew there was more. My wife and I left the baptist church we were attending and started attending an Assembly of God (Pentecostal) Church.
God's mercy was shown to me when he filled me with the Holy Spirit at the age of 40. That was almost 3 years ago, and God is still doing a work in me. I immediately received the gift of tongues on the day I was filled with the Holy Spirit. I have also prayed for someone who was healed, but I don't think I have the "gift of healing".
God also spoke through me a few weeks ago in church as I gave a message in tongues that was interpreted. I'm not sure what you call that gift or if it is a "gift". I'm going through something right now that is very hard for me. I was basically on "cloud nine" for a few years after receiving the Holy Spirit, but lately the spirit in me is somewhat subdued, but somehow intuitively I know that God is strengthening me.
I think it's a lesson in endurance of faith. I'm trying to die daily and praying for the revelation that I died with Christ and allowing the Holy Spirit to lead me. God has showed me that even the "good works" that I do are not pleasing to him because they are ultimately rooted in self. My flesh cannot please God.
It hurts me to not feel that presence of the Holy Spirit, but I just know it is a scourging. Have you ever experienced this? I'm just trying to yield to Him and learn the lesson He has for me. Sorry for such a long email. I'm sure you get a lot of them, but your testimony was encouraging to me and I felt compelled to share some of mine. Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
The Baptism of Another Spirit
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Victor Hafichuk
- Posts: 749
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:07 am
Re: The Baptism of Another Spirit
Hi Greg,
Good to hear of your experience with the Lord!
Have I ever experienced quiet stretches of time after having been baptized in the Holy Spirit? Yes, many times! Often, it was because God was, as you might say, making room for more. We need to digest what we've received and let it become part of us before going on for more.
However, it can also be that when things are dark and dull, there's a need to be met in terms of obedience. You need to ask the Lord what withholds fellowship with Him and He'll be faithful to show you in due time; He, more than you, wants you to know what you need to know, but He wants you to seek after Him for it. “Ask and you shall receive; seek and you shall find; knock and it shall be opened to you....” Our needs are often gifts intended to drive us to Him.
You write, “God also spoke through me a few weeks ago in church as I gave a message in tongues that was interpreted.”
Please tell us the interpretation and if anything more came of it.
Continue to read our site, with the Scriptures, and feel free to ask questions. The Lord wants to give you a breakthrough.
\/
Good to hear of your experience with the Lord!
Have I ever experienced quiet stretches of time after having been baptized in the Holy Spirit? Yes, many times! Often, it was because God was, as you might say, making room for more. We need to digest what we've received and let it become part of us before going on for more.
However, it can also be that when things are dark and dull, there's a need to be met in terms of obedience. You need to ask the Lord what withholds fellowship with Him and He'll be faithful to show you in due time; He, more than you, wants you to know what you need to know, but He wants you to seek after Him for it. “Ask and you shall receive; seek and you shall find; knock and it shall be opened to you....” Our needs are often gifts intended to drive us to Him.
You write, “God also spoke through me a few weeks ago in church as I gave a message in tongues that was interpreted.”
Please tell us the interpretation and if anything more came of it.
Continue to read our site, with the Scriptures, and feel free to ask questions. The Lord wants to give you a breakthrough.
\/
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Greg
Re: The Baptism of Another Spirit
Thank you for resending. As you can see, I got it this time. And thank you so much for taking the time to return my email.
A little time has passed since my email, so I have a little more clarity in what the Lord is doing with me. In my own words, I was sort of outrunning the pace car. I am a get it done kind of guy and as soon as I thought I knew what the Holy Spirit was telling me, I would charge hard after it and discontinue being led by the spirit. Sort of a "oh, I've got this now" attitude. I'm realizing that I just need to slow down and let the rod AND the staff comfort me, and submit to God. I sort of had a breakthrough recently, but I just can't get enough of the Lord. I think I was also being a little spiritually haughty too. Like a "look at me" attitude or an "I must be doing something right if the Lord is using me" thought. As if I am anything without God!
As far as the interpretation of the message, I don't have the exact words, but it was relating to what was happening that morning in church. Our youth had just gotten back from camp and the pastor was preaching on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and was inviting people to come to the altar to be filled. The interpretation was more or less "do not hesitate, do not fear this, run to this, let me wrap you in my love, let me pour out my blessing upon you, do not wait, do not look around, but hasten!"
Again, that isn't word for word. Several people receive the Baptism in the Holy Spirit that morning!
Thanks again for your reply. May God continue to bless your ministry.
A little time has passed since my email, so I have a little more clarity in what the Lord is doing with me. In my own words, I was sort of outrunning the pace car. I am a get it done kind of guy and as soon as I thought I knew what the Holy Spirit was telling me, I would charge hard after it and discontinue being led by the spirit. Sort of a "oh, I've got this now" attitude. I'm realizing that I just need to slow down and let the rod AND the staff comfort me, and submit to God. I sort of had a breakthrough recently, but I just can't get enough of the Lord. I think I was also being a little spiritually haughty too. Like a "look at me" attitude or an "I must be doing something right if the Lord is using me" thought. As if I am anything without God!
As far as the interpretation of the message, I don't have the exact words, but it was relating to what was happening that morning in church. Our youth had just gotten back from camp and the pastor was preaching on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and was inviting people to come to the altar to be filled. The interpretation was more or less "do not hesitate, do not fear this, run to this, let me wrap you in my love, let me pour out my blessing upon you, do not wait, do not look around, but hasten!"
Again, that isn't word for word. Several people receive the Baptism in the Holy Spirit that morning!
Thanks again for your reply. May God continue to bless your ministry.
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Paul Cohen and Victor Hafichuk
Re: The Baptism of Another Spirit
Hi Greg,
This will be good news or bad news to you, depending on your reaction. If good, it will explain your dryness and deadness as a possible indication that the Lord is willing to do something genuine for you now. After all, He has brought you here. Will you hear us? Lord willing, by His grace only.
The youth did not receive the Holy Spirit. Appearances have deceived. However, if you can tell us of definite fruits manifested, in other words, if God bears witness that they received His Spirit, we're open to hearing the report. I say this for your sake; you need to determine the fruits, which should be perfectly obvious, even as with the saints in Acts.
I think you'll discover in a short time that there was nothing there but passion and sensationalism. You need to know that the baptism in His Spirit (the new birth - read The Baptism in the Holy Spirit) is far more significant and momentous than perceived and reported here.
The interpretation of your tongues was not from the Lord. I would suspect that your tongues were not from Him, either, but rather a product of your heart. I say this because if the interpretation was not from God, then it is most likely He would bring revelation that the interpretation wasn't from Him. You would have a check, a contrary witness.
As well, if you have His gift of tongues, it would be because you have received the Spirit. If you have received the Spirit, then you would also have the gift of discernment working in you. If you have His Spirit, with discernment, you should know the interpretation wasn't of God. If you are inclined to believe it was, it could be because you want to believe it, but you are in error.
Your background and environment of receiving the Spirit and tongues is a testimonial that you haven't received the Spirit. In Assembly of God and other Pentecostal circles, counterfeit runs rampant with people being snared by another gospel and counterfeit Holy Spirit, besides many other spirits imitating the gifts. They can be very convincing.
You were brought to us for the Truth of God. Everything is up for review, Greg, and in serious need of it. Do you believe us? I hope so. You need to.
\/
Greg, Paul here.
As Victor says, everything is up for review. You wrote in your first letter:
“I'm trying to die daily and praying for the revelation that I died with Christ and allowing the Holy Spirit to lead me.”
In the faith of Christ it's not a matter of trying to die or to receive the revelation that we died with Him. Those are works of the flesh. In His faith, we take up the cross and die in response to what God is doing. You should also read about God's gift of Repentance and The Cross - Only the Death Sentence Will Avail.
This will be good news or bad news to you, depending on your reaction. If good, it will explain your dryness and deadness as a possible indication that the Lord is willing to do something genuine for you now. After all, He has brought you here. Will you hear us? Lord willing, by His grace only.
The youth did not receive the Holy Spirit. Appearances have deceived. However, if you can tell us of definite fruits manifested, in other words, if God bears witness that they received His Spirit, we're open to hearing the report. I say this for your sake; you need to determine the fruits, which should be perfectly obvious, even as with the saints in Acts.
I think you'll discover in a short time that there was nothing there but passion and sensationalism. You need to know that the baptism in His Spirit (the new birth - read The Baptism in the Holy Spirit) is far more significant and momentous than perceived and reported here.
The interpretation of your tongues was not from the Lord. I would suspect that your tongues were not from Him, either, but rather a product of your heart. I say this because if the interpretation was not from God, then it is most likely He would bring revelation that the interpretation wasn't from Him. You would have a check, a contrary witness.
As well, if you have His gift of tongues, it would be because you have received the Spirit. If you have received the Spirit, then you would also have the gift of discernment working in you. If you have His Spirit, with discernment, you should know the interpretation wasn't of God. If you are inclined to believe it was, it could be because you want to believe it, but you are in error.
Your background and environment of receiving the Spirit and tongues is a testimonial that you haven't received the Spirit. In Assembly of God and other Pentecostal circles, counterfeit runs rampant with people being snared by another gospel and counterfeit Holy Spirit, besides many other spirits imitating the gifts. They can be very convincing.
You were brought to us for the Truth of God. Everything is up for review, Greg, and in serious need of it. Do you believe us? I hope so. You need to.
\/
Greg, Paul here.
As Victor says, everything is up for review. You wrote in your first letter:
“I'm trying to die daily and praying for the revelation that I died with Christ and allowing the Holy Spirit to lead me.”
In the faith of Christ it's not a matter of trying to die or to receive the revelation that we died with Him. Those are works of the flesh. In His faith, we take up the cross and die in response to what God is doing. You should also read about God's gift of Repentance and The Cross - Only the Death Sentence Will Avail.
-
Greg
Re: The Baptism of Another Spirit
That is indeed an interesting reply. How do you presume to know that the youth didn't receive the Holy Spirit? I do agree that their fruits will certainly tell the tale ultimately. Honestly, I question a lot of things that happen at church camps. One of my biggest pet peeves is when kids go to camp or some other event and they do an altar call and ask everyone to raise their hand if they accepted Jesus. Then report that "187 people were saved last night". When I was born again, I knew it without a shadow of a doubt. If fact, I had prayed many times to be born again, but I knew nothing was happening. It wasn't until I really believed that I was born again.
Why would you think the interpretation of the message was not from God? I can only tell you my side of the situation which was the giving of the message in tongues. I know without a shadow of doubt that it was from the Lord. I don't know one cannot receive the Holy Spirit in a certain church if I could put it into words exactly how I know, but I just know. It didn't come from my brain or my heart. What is it about the interpretation that makes you draw the conclusion that it wasn't from God, that the tongues weren't from God, that I haven't received the Spirit, and that I can't discern what is from God or another spirit?
Now you also presume that because of my background I haven't received the Spirit? I don't understand that. Are you saying that? Please explain that to me. I didn't really go into detail about the day I was filled with the Holy Spirit, but I have absolutely zero doubt that I did receive Him. My whole life has changed since that day which I could go into detail about, but I'm not really seeking man's approval about whether it happened.
Everything is indeed up for review including you and your counsel. You seem to be making some strong claims with very little knowledge of the situation. Honestly (and I do not mean to offend you) I am questioning your discernment.
I am not a Bible scholar by any stretch though the Spirit is teaching me day by day, but one thing no man can ever persuade me to deny is that I was born again and that I received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I thank my God and the Lord Jesus Christ for that.
Why would you think the interpretation of the message was not from God? I can only tell you my side of the situation which was the giving of the message in tongues. I know without a shadow of doubt that it was from the Lord. I don't know one cannot receive the Holy Spirit in a certain church if I could put it into words exactly how I know, but I just know. It didn't come from my brain or my heart. What is it about the interpretation that makes you draw the conclusion that it wasn't from God, that the tongues weren't from God, that I haven't received the Spirit, and that I can't discern what is from God or another spirit?
Now you also presume that because of my background I haven't received the Spirit? I don't understand that. Are you saying that? Please explain that to me. I didn't really go into detail about the day I was filled with the Holy Spirit, but I have absolutely zero doubt that I did receive Him. My whole life has changed since that day which I could go into detail about, but I'm not really seeking man's approval about whether it happened.
Everything is indeed up for review including you and your counsel. You seem to be making some strong claims with very little knowledge of the situation. Honestly (and I do not mean to offend you) I am questioning your discernment.
I am not a Bible scholar by any stretch though the Spirit is teaching me day by day, but one thing no man can ever persuade me to deny is that I was born again and that I received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I thank my God and the Lord Jesus Christ for that.
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Paul Cohen and Victor Hafichuk
Re: The Baptism of Another Spirit
Greg, nobody here questions your experience. We have little or no doubt you had one. Did you know one can be born again from beneath as well as from above? If you had the genuine experience of the new birth (baptism in the Holy Spirit - one and the same), please do tell us the changes that came in your life, instantly and in the aftermath. We'll listen, just to be absolutely sure.
So far the indicators are that you may have been deceived by strong delusion (2 Thessalonians 2). Think about it: When God sends strong delusion, who is any man to know it and resist? Of course, you now question our experience and say the same to us. Which further leads us to believe your experience isn't of God. Have you red Our Testimonies?
The real question isn't how we presume to know the youth didn't receive the Holy Spirit, but why you presume they did. Where are the two or three witnesses of God, with fruits confirming this happened? We've not heard or seen any. God has not borne witness to us that their experience was of Him. Many are the reports of people receiving the Spirit or “accepting Christ” and they're reports of spurious events and claims. Your feelings and observations of appearances don't mean anything in and of themselves.
When people receive the Spirit of God, whether in the Scriptures or in real life, significant and revolutionary things happen. God becomes real in a new and living way, the Scriptures come alive, and faithful recipients are soon separated from formal organized religion. It spews them out, and God takes them out. Not so with you, it seems; you're still there, aren't you?
Most people have the counterfeit in organized religious circles, and if they do have the real, three times in the Scriptures God calls His people out (Isaiah 52:11, 2 Corinthians 6:17 and Revelation 18:4). He also calls them out personally, according to the written Word. Those who disobey and remain, perish with the world while bearing His Name with deceptive religious works, false doctrine, fantasy, doublemindedness and lukewarmness.
“Now you also presume that because of my background I haven't received the Spirit?”
Your background is only one factor, and not quite as you put it. We presume nothing based on knowledge. We don't judge by sight, but see and hear with our God-given eyes and ears.
“What is it about the interpretation that makes you draw the conclusion that it wasn't from God, that the tongues weren't from God, that I haven't received the Spirit, and that I can't discern what is from God or another spirit?”
God doesn't speak that way with that reasoning (see the Scriptures), so if you believe it's God then we can only be led to believe there's something amiss.
As for your tongues, saying they came from neither your mind nor heart doesn't mean anything either. Haven't you heard of deceiving spirits?
2 Chronicles 18:19-22 ESV
(19) “And the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab the king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?' And one said one thing, and another said another.
(20) Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, saying, 'I will entice him.' And the LORD said to him, 'By what means?'
(21) And he said, 'I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' And He said, 'You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.'
(22) Now therefore behold, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of these your prophets. The LORD has declared disaster concerning you.”
You ask if people can't receive the Holy Spirit in certain churches. The answer is “Yes,” when those churches are temples of Baal and Ashtoreth. Invariably they are, though in Jesus' Name, called “Christian” churches.
But you don't understand or know these things, and what's worse, you don't hear what Victor is saying to you regarding the things of God while you presume He lives in you. In this we see the Scripture fulfilled:
“We are of God. He who knows God hears us. The one who is not of God does not hear us. From this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error” (1 John 4:6 MKJV).
Your letter only confirms everything Victor said to you. Did you read The Baptism in the Holy Spirit? He gave you this writing because it imparts sound knowledge about true conversion, the momentous Pentecostal act of God.
Paul & Victor
So far the indicators are that you may have been deceived by strong delusion (2 Thessalonians 2). Think about it: When God sends strong delusion, who is any man to know it and resist? Of course, you now question our experience and say the same to us. Which further leads us to believe your experience isn't of God. Have you red Our Testimonies?
The real question isn't how we presume to know the youth didn't receive the Holy Spirit, but why you presume they did. Where are the two or three witnesses of God, with fruits confirming this happened? We've not heard or seen any. God has not borne witness to us that their experience was of Him. Many are the reports of people receiving the Spirit or “accepting Christ” and they're reports of spurious events and claims. Your feelings and observations of appearances don't mean anything in and of themselves.
When people receive the Spirit of God, whether in the Scriptures or in real life, significant and revolutionary things happen. God becomes real in a new and living way, the Scriptures come alive, and faithful recipients are soon separated from formal organized religion. It spews them out, and God takes them out. Not so with you, it seems; you're still there, aren't you?
Most people have the counterfeit in organized religious circles, and if they do have the real, three times in the Scriptures God calls His people out (Isaiah 52:11, 2 Corinthians 6:17 and Revelation 18:4). He also calls them out personally, according to the written Word. Those who disobey and remain, perish with the world while bearing His Name with deceptive religious works, false doctrine, fantasy, doublemindedness and lukewarmness.
“Now you also presume that because of my background I haven't received the Spirit?”
Your background is only one factor, and not quite as you put it. We presume nothing based on knowledge. We don't judge by sight, but see and hear with our God-given eyes and ears.
“What is it about the interpretation that makes you draw the conclusion that it wasn't from God, that the tongues weren't from God, that I haven't received the Spirit, and that I can't discern what is from God or another spirit?”
God doesn't speak that way with that reasoning (see the Scriptures), so if you believe it's God then we can only be led to believe there's something amiss.
As for your tongues, saying they came from neither your mind nor heart doesn't mean anything either. Haven't you heard of deceiving spirits?
2 Chronicles 18:19-22 ESV
(19) “And the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab the king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?' And one said one thing, and another said another.
(20) Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, saying, 'I will entice him.' And the LORD said to him, 'By what means?'
(21) And he said, 'I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' And He said, 'You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.'
(22) Now therefore behold, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of these your prophets. The LORD has declared disaster concerning you.”
You ask if people can't receive the Holy Spirit in certain churches. The answer is “Yes,” when those churches are temples of Baal and Ashtoreth. Invariably they are, though in Jesus' Name, called “Christian” churches.
But you don't understand or know these things, and what's worse, you don't hear what Victor is saying to you regarding the things of God while you presume He lives in you. In this we see the Scripture fulfilled:
“We are of God. He who knows God hears us. The one who is not of God does not hear us. From this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error” (1 John 4:6 MKJV).
Your letter only confirms everything Victor said to you. Did you read The Baptism in the Holy Spirit? He gave you this writing because it imparts sound knowledge about true conversion, the momentous Pentecostal act of God.
Paul & Victor