Facebook Thread Regarding Transgender Legislation
Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 2:19 pm
Mike Vandergugten
As a father of young children, my protective and aggressive instincts would be aroused if I were to catch a "transgender" individual within the same change room as any one of my children. This is madness!!!
Sign here to oppose Canada’s sweeping new transgender legislation
The debate about “transgender” rights is raging across the globe, and the latest victim of the tolerance parade is set to be Canada.
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Comments
Dave Sparrow Is a "transgender" person different than a transgender person? If so, how does one determine the difference?
Mike Vandergugten I guess in my passion I put quotes around it since I don't validate the transgender folk as a valid identity. There are very rare instances where someone is born with both genitalia. Those folk I can understand a bit better. Those choosing, for whatever reason, to deny their physiology I have less understanding for. I am kicking against governments forcing this into law, all the while quashing the rights of helpless children. It would feel like a violation for me to enter a women's washroom to protect my children. It's just messed up and pisses me off.
Arnold Sikkema I'd say your kids are no safer in the current situation. Never send them into any public facility on their own.
Mike Vandergugten I'd say they ARE safer right now. Right now there is a barrier to having a male in a women's washroom. Right?!
Martin VanPopta Yes, Mike, agreed!
Enid Luiten When our boys were young we practiced "safety kids" .... Someone always accompanied them to the washroom in public places. In light of this transgender policy, it would be crucial to practice Safety Kids!
Darla Sparrow
Martin VanPopta You're a vile woman, Darla.
I say it's wrong for men to impose on women a law that compromises their safety and you accuse me of being a pervert and rapist.
Does speaking out against evil make a person evil? I suppose, to the evil, it does.
Is it right for you to act this way?
What's with you?
Don't you have any sense?
No, you don't!
You glory in accepting contradiction and wickedness, and praise yourself for accusing the sensible of perversion.
You accuse Jesus Christ, Himself, of perversion with your conduct.
Oh wait! I'm sorry everyone! Did I forget about that story in Matthew where Jesus told the harlot she had cute sneakers and held her hair while she puked?
You make me want to puke!
You're an idiot, Darla! A hater of goodness!
Whether or not you profess His Name, He still rules. And His Rules are THE Rules.
I'm sure to be seen as the ranting raving fool here, but I'm good with it. By His Grace His Word is spoken and by His Grace His Word is heard.
Mike Vandergugten Martin, your name calling is NOT welcome here.
Darla Sparrow Martin VanPopta you sure know a lot about me for never having met me. Ciao
Martin VanPopta Mike Vandergugten. How is it that Darla can accuse both of us of being sexual perverts and share memes that drop the F bomb but you get all self-righteous Sunday school teacher on me when I call contradiction to His Word and false accusations the work of an idiot.
I suppose John the Baptist was also a name-caller. He called the religious folk of the day a "brood of vipers. It's a damn shame you weren't there to scold him and keep him on the straight and narrow.
Mike, you religious hypocrite. You viper. You speak out against this transgender evil because you fear for your family, not because you fear and honor the Lord. You profess His Name because you believe it will preserve your soul from the Hell of your own imagination. Don't you know it's written that he who seek to save his life will lose it!
You know very well I'm speaking the Truth and yet you fault me on what you attempt to make into a technicality. You're the perfect pharisee. You have no substance with which to object to what the Lord is saying here, so you find fault in the fine print while ignoring the "weightier Matters of the Law".
You censor Truth and tolerate vulgarity. Shame on you!
Martin VanPopta Darla Sparrow Remarkable, isn't it?
Arnold Sikkema Mike, I was thinking mostly about your boys, who, if you let them go to a public facility on their own, have always been "at risk" (may the Lord graciously prevent it) from a paedophile or other wicked person. And for girls, there has always been the chance of a female or male paedophile being in there as well, whether such wicked person had the outward appearance of being a woman. Suggestion: if you can't take the girls into the bathroom with you, then 1) teach them to scream [probably they already know how] and 2) stay near the door when they go.
Mike Vandergugten Thanks Arnold. Your suggestions make sense and that is what we do tell them. There is still risk but slim chance of anything happening.
Arnold Sikkema One more thing, and Gerda can provide the statistics: children in general, including in the church, are far more likely to be sexually assaulted and abused by people they know than by strangers.
Martin VanPopta Arnold Sikkema I've wondered whether or not I misunderstood where you were coming from and spoke hastily and it troubled me.
I've no problem apologizing if it's the case, but I don't believe it is.
I see now where you come with good sounding reasoning and "sound logic", but you are in the service of Evil, being very subtle.
Yes, pedophiles have always had opportunities.
And yes, most victims are assaulted by people they know, not in bathrooms by the sexually confused/rebellious.
But shouldn't we still be speaking out against anything that 1. facilitates evil
2. caters and surrenders ground to an agenda that opposes the Lord's laws.
You come persuading others that this vile piece of legislation doesn't really make much difference so just take personal precautions.
Not once have you acknowledged that this gross agenda is evil.
Your message is : Who cares about the proliferation of immorality. Who cares about others. Just protect your own family.
Every body keep calm and never mind the gross godlessness that is closing in just as long as you can save your own ass.
Can you imagine if every church going Christ professing person in Canada spoke verbally against this evil? It wouldn't stand for one day.
Arnold, if only one girl is raped on account of this legislation, her blood will be on your hands for your tacit approval and "justified" silence.
Martin VanPopta I'll take it all the way, Mike. I have no understanding at all for those who take issue with their genitalia. However, I'm not sure who is more given over to delusion - the mentally ill and/or deviant folks who decide they're of a different gender than their genitalia indicates or the perverse people who justify this insanity as permissible and strip away the rights and safety of your children so as to elevate themselves as the moral elite.
Mike, who are your brothers but those who hear the Word of the Lord and do it? If you stand for Jesus Christ why don't you stand up against David's self-righteous bullshit and say it like it is? Isn't your God more important than your family or is your family your god?
David you are anti-Christ! You oppose Jesus Christ and everything that He is. Everything from your "trans-morality" to your Orthodox idolatry is perfectly putrid to Him!
Arnold, why would you differ with Mike on this point? Must you always be contrary and a little more right? Is there no one wiser than Arnold? Do you also defend the right of men to enter in women's bathrooms? Is nothing sacred? Neither do you worship the Lord. You worship in the high places of intellectualism, presuming to be wiser than God Himself. Your idolatry has made you a damned fool!
David and Arnold, His wrath is on you both!
Mike, the Lord is finished winking!
I'm not sure why you haven't blocked me. Perhaps you hold out hope for me to stop my "madness" or maybe you know what I'm saying is true and you haven't stopped your ears yet. The Lord knows. However, I've been given this opportunity and words to speak by Him.
.Yes, I'm in full agreement with you on this transgender issue. God is "pissed off" as well and mostly so with those who justify in anyway these gross perversions while taking His Name on themselves.
I see that you stand firmly by good principles in many other areas as well, not being swept away by the tsunami of liberal madness. You're an astute religious man, Mike, but you don't know Him and He doesn't know you. God hates your religiosity. It makes Him angry.
If you knew Him, you would hear His voice and speak boldly on His behalf, instead of backing down to the enemy and weakly defending your justified indignation with sin. You would, instead, "lift up your voice and cry aloud, telling your people their sin." Should you have ANY understanding for those who rebel not just against God and His nature but against the very nature God has given them, being created in His image?
This transgender filth is a sign of the times and His Fires are coming to consume those who peddle this sewage as goodness AND those who don't stand with Him against it no matter the criticism and condemnation of the world or even family.
You know damn well that David is an enemy to Jesus Christ and His Rightness. But the Truth is, you fault the boldness and directness of His coming and presume your "love", "patience", and "gentleness" to be more wholesome and spiritual than His Wrath and Judgment, and so in this, you too have become an enemy of Jesus Christ. You don't know it Mike, but in your religious notions and "Christian" posture you bring the Wrath of the Lord down on you and your family.
It's time to get real or is it too late?
Dave Sparrow God hates fags?
Martin VanPopta How very clever of you, Dave, to try and write off the Truth by equating It to the condemning, hateful, anti-Christ behaviour of the Westboro Baptist Churches. Your deceitful obfuscations of this issue won't help you dodge the Judgment headed your way.
He comes for the harlots, tax collectors and reviled of this world and offers them a way out through the gift of repentance.
God doesn't hate fags, He hates you! He despises your contemptuous vile self- righteousness and your proud unrepentant idolatrous heart.
I have seen you casually admit to your own hypocrisy and contradiction as if it justifies you in it, all the while posting religious drivel about how hypocrisy is 100 times worse than any other sin. And yet you, Dave, elevate yourself as judge over all men, and your judgments above His.
You claim to worship Jesus Christ while you reinvent His word, and despise His Laws. Your "worship" of Him is just a fashion statement. You treat the His Name like a trinket or an anti-culture pair of jeans. His Precious Blood is like Pabst Blue Ribbon to you. A cheap beer to get you buzzed and then pissed out, and hopefully you get some attention while you're at it.
You're the quintessential narcissist having no use for Christ whatsoever.
His anger with your shit is boiling over and yet you mock, which is to be expected. It's all you have. You serve devils and you're ruled by them. Mocking devils destined for destruction. May the Lord deal with your devilry swiftly! He will not countenance being mocked!
I rebuke you, David, and the devils within you in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, Whose Power is greater than all men! May He deal swiftly with your wickedness.
Dave Sparrow You judge me out of the fullness of your own heart. You presume to see my heart and know my ways. I don't understand how you have come to this misunderstanding. But your petty assaults are meaningless to me.
Martin VanPopta I'm judging the fullness of your heart by the Fullness of His Spirit. Your heart is manifest by your word and deed and is plain for all who have eyes to see.
Dave Sparrow I'm not thankful that you are so ready and willing to point the finger, that the only interaction I have seen of yours over the years is berating and accusing people, as if you have special knowledge and insights into people's hearts and minds. On the occasions that you could see Christ in someone and commend them for it, you would also take on the role of a prophet and call people to repentance. Perhaps the intellectual aim is noble, but your praxis violates your message. How it sounds to my ears, is that we ought to all think the way you do. This is tragic.
Martin VanPopta Yes, David, I spent many years in darkness, cynicism, dishonesty and condescension. I presumed to be better than others and His wrath was on me. I justified my own vileness as you know, while putting the onus on everybody else. I'm not saying that everything I said to others during that time was wrong, although much of it was, but I can certainly admit I was coming from a place of great pride and arrogance.
I was ruled by the spirit of Calvin (not that Calving is to blame), loving the condemnation he had for others, because it helped distract me from the grossness of my own sins. I was a sexual deviant myself. A lover of pornography and a drug using escapist. But where sin abounded His Grace abounded more.
The Lord called me out of that and gave me repentance. Then after a time He gave me His Spirit and I am no longer a slave to my sins.
I will proclaim Jesus Christ boldly by His Grace, on account of His Salvation. It is my calling to preach against godlessness and warn people about the Wrath of God against sin. Would it be the Love of Christ for me to remain silent? Do the Scriptures not declare that we should proclaim on the housetops what He has whispered in our ear? God forbid that I be silent!
If preaching with the Spirit of Boldness that He has given me is having "the role of a prophet" as you say, then so be it. Doesn't Joel prophesy in Joel 2:28 that "It will come about after this That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind; And your sons and daughters will prophesy."
I don't believe for a second that everyone should think as I do, but rather that all should think as He does, as He has given me the Mind to do.
"For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ." (1 Corr. 2:16)
This is not an intellectual aim or a carnal pontification. It is the Word of God come to people who don't want to hear it.
Dave Sparrow I hope that you can find a way to say what you think needs to be said without embarrassing and embittering others.
Martin VanPopta There is no hope for that. That which needs to be said for His sake will always offend and embitter those who oppose Him. God forbid that I should seek for a way to please men rather than Him.
Do you think Jesus was concerned with offending men?
"Then the disciples came and said to him, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?” He answered, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit." "(Matt 15:12-14)
Shouldn't you know this?
Rather, shouldn't your hope should be that those hearing, not be embarrassed or embittered by the Truth spoken.
"And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in Me." (Matthew 11:6)
Which Scriptures are you reading?
Which Jesus are you worshiping?
You've gone after another gospel and another Christ because with your father, Satan, you savor the things of the flesh.
Dave Sparrow Well, I'm going to get on with my life. Maybe we'll talk in ten years. See ya.
Alyssa Brown Martin "Do you think Jesus was concerned with offending men?". No.. I will agree with you on that. But Jesus certainly did not treat people the way you are. If you want to justify your words/actions by WWJD, then perhaps you should look at all aspects of that, not just one side. I am not "smart" enough to get into this debate, but I am smart enough to know this telling someone that their father is Satan via Facebook is tasteless.
Mike Vandergugten I think we would all do well to assess our own thoughts, words, and actions by looking at the mirror of God's Word, particularly in the following passage.
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another."
Galatians 5:22-26 NKJV
Martin VanPopta Alyssa Brown This has nothing to do with "taste". Isn't taste the measure of how much a man will savor something? Determining what is right and wrong based on what men savor is the essence of Satan.
Mat 16:23 But He turned and said to Peter, Go, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you do not savor the things that are of God, but those that are of men.
Jesus said this to His own friend, because He saw that Peter was desiring what his flesh wanted rather than seeking after the Will of the Father. By your judgment of me, you condemn Jesus Christ as well.
I should make a clarification here. David doesn't believe the Lord and His Word as Peter did. Neither do the rest of the men speaking here. They understand His word according to their own pleasure because they savor the things of men, just as Mike is demonstrating above.
You see, Satan comes to be our savior as well. But He comes to save the physical man at the expense and death of the spiritual man. Jesus Christ comes to save the spiritual man at the expense and death of the physical man.
Satan is the nicest guy you'll ever meet. He runs the Bible study and keeps the collection pot. Why do you think Jesus said to the upstanding Pharisees that their father was Satan? But his mission is to destroy life by telling sweet sounding lies.
Jesus Christ, on the other hand, is seen as a jerk because He comes bringing Life by speaking the hard Truth.
The trouble is, you think that just because I'm speaking directly and honestly that I'm being hateful and sinful. I love my cousins and the others who are part of this conversation, just as the Lord has given me the grace to love all men as I ought to, according to the Spirit and not the flesh. I would rejoice if any of you believed the Word I've been given to bring you. But God forbid that I entice or proselytize any of you. The Lord draws whom He wills.
None of you are speaking with understanding. Don't you realize that the Spirit spoken of in Galatians 5:22-26 starved His own chosen people until they ate their children, just as He promised He would if they stubbornly disobeyed. And the same Spirit, God Himself, struck Annanias and Saphira dead with no opportunity for repentance so that the people would fear and obey. That doesn't seem very gentle, peaceful, or long suffering does it?
But, Mike Vandergugten, you post scripture insinuating that the love, kindness and goodness spoken about in the passage you quoted are the same kind you have experienced in your flesh. Like when we hold a baby or a puppy and coddle them. The love you preach is false!
(Here's a worthwhile read The Lovely Essence of Satan)
What about what the Loving Father says?
Heb 12:6 for whom the Lord loves He chastens, and He scourges every son whom He receives."
Do you know what scourging feels like? And if He scourges those whom He loves, what end do you think comes to those who take His Name in vain? Will He hold them guiltless?
Exo 20:7 You shall not take the name of Jehovah your God in vain. For Jehovah will not hold him guiltless that takes His name in vain.
Alyssa, you have judged me by the way I appear to you, not with substance according to His Word.
Rom 8:5 For they who are according to the flesh mind the things of flesh, but they who are according to the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Besides calling me a classless jerk, do you actually have any substance.
(side note) Don't think that I don't understand what I look like or why people are responding the way they are. I know that in a former life, I would condemn me too. But I'm willing to be a fool for Christ who died for me while I was yet a sinner!
Am I preaching false doctrine or loose morals? Am I contradicting scripture? Or is bluntness, reality, and honesty so far removed from your religious circles that it's become frightful?
His wrath comes for those who hide in the shadows despising the light. I've come shining His Light and He is despised in it.
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
Mike Vandergugten Martin, this quite enough.
Go find something else to do.
Namely, I suggest you take my advice and assess yourself according to the previous conment: by the fruits of the Spirit, and let the Spirit do His work on the many people you have interacted with. You don't need to bludgeon people with His Word. Trust the Holy Spirit.
Martin VanPopta I have been continually before the Lord in all of this, because I do trust the Holy Spirit. The Spirit IS doing His work. As far as not bludgeoning, have you not read the Scripture?
23:28 The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream. And he who has My Word, let him speak My Word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? says Jehovah.
Jer 23:29 Is not My Word like a fire? says Jehovah; and like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?
It's your hardness that's the problem here, Mike Vandergugten, making need for a hammer. How can "I find something else to do" when my job is to speak His Word faithfully?
Mike, why don't you sound a clear trumpet? If I'm for evil and I'm sinning against the Lord in what I've said here then rebuke me and show me my sin.
But if I'm speaking the Truth then why won't you hear it?
I'm either stark raving mad or you're in deep trouble for despising the Truth. I don't see any in between. Do you?
Deborah Huttema Martin who are you fooling? No one but yourself. Your ranting is just that, ranting and raging. You should find a different forum.
Denise VanDelft Martin, I do not know you- at all. But I have never seen such degradation and hateful words spoken 'in the name of of our LORD' to individuals.
I thank our God that he alone is the one to judge man, and our job is to live a life of mercy and love as Chist did.
May we hallow his name in all we say and discuss.
Martin VanPopta Deborah Huttema I'm not here to fool around. Should the prophets have found a "different forum" also? You are as the Pharisees, found in their hypocrisy to have the blood of the innocent on their hands by Jesus Christ Himself.
Mat 23:27 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which indeed appear beautiful outside, but inside they are full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so you also appear righteous to men outwardly, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Mat 23:29 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets, and decorate the tombs of the righteous,
Mat 23:30 and say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Mat 23:31 Therefore you are witnesses to yourselves, that you are the sons of those who killed the prophets;
Mat 23:32 and you fill up the measure of your fathers.
Mat 23:33 Serpents! Offspring of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?
Mat 23:34 Therefore, behold, I send prophets and wise men and scribes to you. And you will kill and crucify some of them. And some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city;
Mat 23:35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Berachiah, whom you killed between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 Truly I say to you, All these things shall come on this generation.
Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to her, how often would I have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you would not!
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left to you desolate.
Mat 23:39 For I say to you, You shall not see Me from now on until you say, "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord."
Deborah, you have not an iota of Scripture or Truth to convince me of sin.
I'm speaking to you, being filled with the Spirit of God and you brashly tell Him to "find a different forum", just as the Pharisees demanded of Peter and John that they be silent and refrain from proclaiming Jesus Christ.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand My Speech? even because ye cannot hear My Word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Joh 8:46 Which of you convinceth Me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe Me?
Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Yes, just as Mat 23:28 declares, you are all about the outward appearance of righteousness unto men, but you know nothing of Him and oppose Him steadfastly as He comes.
You worship false gods, and the jesus you know is indeed Satan, the imposter, dressed up as Jesus, like a sow wearing an evening gown and red lipstick.
You are not of God or you would know that I'm coming with His Truth to give Life and to give It abundantly.
Why not consider what I'm saying. Is it so far above all of you to consider being wrong? Isn't it possible, just like the Roman Catholic Church and the many other denominations that you all wickedly condemn to Hell, that you could be dead wrong as well.
It's not just possible. It's true.
Your "Reformed" Churches are of the their Mother the Harlot (the Roman Catholic Church) and are twice the children of Hell that she is.
You won't get away with telling God to shut up, Deborah. You will give an account for brushing Him off.
Martin VanPopta Denise VanDelft Haven't you read :
1Co 6:2 Do you not know that the saints shall judge the world? And if the world shall be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels, not to mention the things of this life?
and
Jud 1:14 And Enoch, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied to these, saying, Behold, the Lord came with myriads of His saints,
Jud 1:15 to do judgment against all, and to rebuke all the ungodly of them concerning all their ungodly works which they ungodly did, and concerning all the hard things ungodly sinners spoke against Him.
Yes, the Lord is the only One fit to judge a man heart. But don't you recognize that He gives this ability and authority to His Saints by the Understanding that comes with the indwelling of His Spirit?
Or do you deny the two scriptures above? Do they not establish that men, by Him and His Revelation, will be judging this world?
Have none of you read the Scriptures? Yes, you have, but as the Scriptures declare, the dead don't know anything.
Ecc 9:4 For whoever is chosen, to all those living, there is hope; for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die; but the dead do not know anything, nor do they have any more a reward; for their memory is forgotten.
I would rather be the least of creatures and live by Him, than be the great, proud, religious kings of the jungle that all of you are and dead as a doornail.
And just how do you define degradation? And by that definition are the Prophets and even Jesus Christ also condemned? Where am I guilty and they're not?
And as for your religious crap about hallowing His Name, it stinks to High Heaven. The Lord has to plug His Nostrils when you speak like that.
You haven't a clue what it means to make His Name Holy. You just want me to submit to your desire for me to be silent, and so you throw religious lingo at me like poorly aimed dogshit and you've rendered yourself unclean in the act. How will you hallow His Name with filth on your hands and in your mouth.
Besides experiencing discomfort when I'm talking, do you have any scripturally sound accusations to charge me with or is this just another mob screaming "Crucify Him, Crucify Him!"
Jon Luiten *eats popcorn.
Dave Sparrow have you ever tried nutritional yeast on it? super tasty.
Jon Luiten *throws up mouth a little
Martin VanPopta Yes, Jon, you're very funny aren't you. The Day of the Lord comes and you'll eat popcorn. I suppose there were those snickering at Jesus when He trashed the temple.
"What His problem? What a drama queen! Somebody get the popcorn! LOL!"
And what end do you think they came to when Jerusalem was destroyed?
Darla Sparrow I laugh because most likely you've all taken a piss in a washroom with a transgendered before and........ Nothing happened cuz everyone just needs to pee!!!!!
Misty Baardsen VanPopta At the expense of being name called and judged and accused of being ____________ (insert any variety of un-Christiany things), I'm going to say the following on the topic.
And I'm speaking on the topic of transgender and NOT on the legislation (for which I haven't invested any brain cells into looking at yet).
I'm tired of seeing the hate.
I know good Christian people whose child struggled with gender identity from the time before he could be influenced by society and media. Toddler age. His whole life until his 20's. Suicide attempts, alienation of friends who couldn't identify with the struggle, always feeling like a freak, withdrawal from church because of the lack of love, being a complete loner with no friends. All with parents who prayed fervently and loved unconditionally. You could see the torment everyday on his face.
The struggle is real regardless of whether we agree on why they struggle (Satan, mental illness, whatever makes you feel better to condemn them).
I truly believe that God made us all; healthy, disabled, black, white, purple, gay, poor, wealthy. For what purpose we each hold, I don't know. We all have our responsibility in how we were born to live in Christ like ways. And just because I acknowledge their existence doesn't mean I agree with all of either lifestyle choices either. But what I do know, is that our treatment towards those we can't identify with (in which ever direction you are looking) is where we get it wrong. And calling people deviants and/or petophiles because of your own lack of admission that God does make us all different, is so wrong!
My interpretation of what Darla posted is that people who do identify as transgender, those who have gone through the years of psychological assessments and years of therapy required prior to gender reassignment, are not who we should be fearing for our children. Petophiles don't change their gender to get at kids or gawk at the "opposite" sex.
Now saying this, I too have a problem with open concept bathrooms. BUT I will not take it far enough to say that transgender cannot be accommodated in other ways. But that's a discussion for another day.
Martin VanPopta This boy you speak of sounds like he had a rough go. A tormented soul. His struggle was obviously very real.
While God does purpose and has sovereignty over all things, He does not create gay or transgender people. It's the flesh that corrupts that which is made in His Image.
I understand that many of the tortured individuals who are confused about and/or rebel against their physiology have no intention of raping and harassing, However, I don't recognize an obligation to accommodate deviations from His Law especially at the expense of safety for others.
You say that "Petophiles don't change their identity to get at kids or gawk at the opposite sex". How do you know they won't if the Law changes? The law would allow any man to walk into a girl's bathroom at an elementary school and basically plead sexual insanity if he is accused of bad motives.
I think that I can safely assume that the name calling, judging and accusing concerns are directed at me. Do you realize your own contradiction in mentioning these things?
You have called me a name caller, judged me as judgmental and accused me of un-Christian conduct. How do you make sense of these things?
[END THREAD]
Read Revelation on Transsexuality
As a father of young children, my protective and aggressive instincts would be aroused if I were to catch a "transgender" individual within the same change room as any one of my children. This is madness!!!
- we-dont-care.jpg (21.98 KiB) Viewed 2530 times
The debate about “transgender” rights is raging across the globe, and the latest victim of the tolerance parade is set to be Canada.
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Comments
Dave Sparrow Is a "transgender" person different than a transgender person? If so, how does one determine the difference?
Mike Vandergugten I guess in my passion I put quotes around it since I don't validate the transgender folk as a valid identity. There are very rare instances where someone is born with both genitalia. Those folk I can understand a bit better. Those choosing, for whatever reason, to deny their physiology I have less understanding for. I am kicking against governments forcing this into law, all the while quashing the rights of helpless children. It would feel like a violation for me to enter a women's washroom to protect my children. It's just messed up and pisses me off.
Arnold Sikkema I'd say your kids are no safer in the current situation. Never send them into any public facility on their own.
Mike Vandergugten I'd say they ARE safer right now. Right now there is a barrier to having a male in a women's washroom. Right?!
Martin VanPopta Yes, Mike, agreed!
Enid Luiten When our boys were young we practiced "safety kids" .... Someone always accompanied them to the washroom in public places. In light of this transgender policy, it would be crucial to practice Safety Kids!
Darla Sparrow
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Martin VanPopta You're a vile woman, Darla.
I say it's wrong for men to impose on women a law that compromises their safety and you accuse me of being a pervert and rapist.
Does speaking out against evil make a person evil? I suppose, to the evil, it does.
Is it right for you to act this way?
What's with you?
Don't you have any sense?
No, you don't!
You glory in accepting contradiction and wickedness, and praise yourself for accusing the sensible of perversion.
You accuse Jesus Christ, Himself, of perversion with your conduct.
Oh wait! I'm sorry everyone! Did I forget about that story in Matthew where Jesus told the harlot she had cute sneakers and held her hair while she puked?
You make me want to puke!
You're an idiot, Darla! A hater of goodness!
Whether or not you profess His Name, He still rules. And His Rules are THE Rules.
I'm sure to be seen as the ranting raving fool here, but I'm good with it. By His Grace His Word is spoken and by His Grace His Word is heard.
Mike Vandergugten Martin, your name calling is NOT welcome here.
Darla Sparrow Martin VanPopta you sure know a lot about me for never having met me. Ciao
Martin VanPopta Mike Vandergugten. How is it that Darla can accuse both of us of being sexual perverts and share memes that drop the F bomb but you get all self-righteous Sunday school teacher on me when I call contradiction to His Word and false accusations the work of an idiot.
I suppose John the Baptist was also a name-caller. He called the religious folk of the day a "brood of vipers. It's a damn shame you weren't there to scold him and keep him on the straight and narrow.
Mike, you religious hypocrite. You viper. You speak out against this transgender evil because you fear for your family, not because you fear and honor the Lord. You profess His Name because you believe it will preserve your soul from the Hell of your own imagination. Don't you know it's written that he who seek to save his life will lose it!
You know very well I'm speaking the Truth and yet you fault me on what you attempt to make into a technicality. You're the perfect pharisee. You have no substance with which to object to what the Lord is saying here, so you find fault in the fine print while ignoring the "weightier Matters of the Law".
You censor Truth and tolerate vulgarity. Shame on you!
Martin VanPopta Darla Sparrow Remarkable, isn't it?
Arnold Sikkema Mike, I was thinking mostly about your boys, who, if you let them go to a public facility on their own, have always been "at risk" (may the Lord graciously prevent it) from a paedophile or other wicked person. And for girls, there has always been the chance of a female or male paedophile being in there as well, whether such wicked person had the outward appearance of being a woman. Suggestion: if you can't take the girls into the bathroom with you, then 1) teach them to scream [probably they already know how] and 2) stay near the door when they go.
Mike Vandergugten Thanks Arnold. Your suggestions make sense and that is what we do tell them. There is still risk but slim chance of anything happening.
Arnold Sikkema One more thing, and Gerda can provide the statistics: children in general, including in the church, are far more likely to be sexually assaulted and abused by people they know than by strangers.
Martin VanPopta Arnold Sikkema I've wondered whether or not I misunderstood where you were coming from and spoke hastily and it troubled me.
I've no problem apologizing if it's the case, but I don't believe it is.
I see now where you come with good sounding reasoning and "sound logic", but you are in the service of Evil, being very subtle.
Yes, pedophiles have always had opportunities.
And yes, most victims are assaulted by people they know, not in bathrooms by the sexually confused/rebellious.
But shouldn't we still be speaking out against anything that 1. facilitates evil
2. caters and surrenders ground to an agenda that opposes the Lord's laws.
You come persuading others that this vile piece of legislation doesn't really make much difference so just take personal precautions.
Not once have you acknowledged that this gross agenda is evil.
Your message is : Who cares about the proliferation of immorality. Who cares about others. Just protect your own family.
Every body keep calm and never mind the gross godlessness that is closing in just as long as you can save your own ass.
Can you imagine if every church going Christ professing person in Canada spoke verbally against this evil? It wouldn't stand for one day.
Arnold, if only one girl is raped on account of this legislation, her blood will be on your hands for your tacit approval and "justified" silence.
Martin VanPopta I'll take it all the way, Mike. I have no understanding at all for those who take issue with their genitalia. However, I'm not sure who is more given over to delusion - the mentally ill and/or deviant folks who decide they're of a different gender than their genitalia indicates or the perverse people who justify this insanity as permissible and strip away the rights and safety of your children so as to elevate themselves as the moral elite.
Mike, who are your brothers but those who hear the Word of the Lord and do it? If you stand for Jesus Christ why don't you stand up against David's self-righteous bullshit and say it like it is? Isn't your God more important than your family or is your family your god?
David you are anti-Christ! You oppose Jesus Christ and everything that He is. Everything from your "trans-morality" to your Orthodox idolatry is perfectly putrid to Him!
Arnold, why would you differ with Mike on this point? Must you always be contrary and a little more right? Is there no one wiser than Arnold? Do you also defend the right of men to enter in women's bathrooms? Is nothing sacred? Neither do you worship the Lord. You worship in the high places of intellectualism, presuming to be wiser than God Himself. Your idolatry has made you a damned fool!
David and Arnold, His wrath is on you both!
Mike, the Lord is finished winking!
I'm not sure why you haven't blocked me. Perhaps you hold out hope for me to stop my "madness" or maybe you know what I'm saying is true and you haven't stopped your ears yet. The Lord knows. However, I've been given this opportunity and words to speak by Him.
.Yes, I'm in full agreement with you on this transgender issue. God is "pissed off" as well and mostly so with those who justify in anyway these gross perversions while taking His Name on themselves.
I see that you stand firmly by good principles in many other areas as well, not being swept away by the tsunami of liberal madness. You're an astute religious man, Mike, but you don't know Him and He doesn't know you. God hates your religiosity. It makes Him angry.
If you knew Him, you would hear His voice and speak boldly on His behalf, instead of backing down to the enemy and weakly defending your justified indignation with sin. You would, instead, "lift up your voice and cry aloud, telling your people their sin." Should you have ANY understanding for those who rebel not just against God and His nature but against the very nature God has given them, being created in His image?
This transgender filth is a sign of the times and His Fires are coming to consume those who peddle this sewage as goodness AND those who don't stand with Him against it no matter the criticism and condemnation of the world or even family.
You know damn well that David is an enemy to Jesus Christ and His Rightness. But the Truth is, you fault the boldness and directness of His coming and presume your "love", "patience", and "gentleness" to be more wholesome and spiritual than His Wrath and Judgment, and so in this, you too have become an enemy of Jesus Christ. You don't know it Mike, but in your religious notions and "Christian" posture you bring the Wrath of the Lord down on you and your family.
It's time to get real or is it too late?
Dave Sparrow God hates fags?
Martin VanPopta How very clever of you, Dave, to try and write off the Truth by equating It to the condemning, hateful, anti-Christ behaviour of the Westboro Baptist Churches. Your deceitful obfuscations of this issue won't help you dodge the Judgment headed your way.
He comes for the harlots, tax collectors and reviled of this world and offers them a way out through the gift of repentance.
God doesn't hate fags, He hates you! He despises your contemptuous vile self- righteousness and your proud unrepentant idolatrous heart.
I have seen you casually admit to your own hypocrisy and contradiction as if it justifies you in it, all the while posting religious drivel about how hypocrisy is 100 times worse than any other sin. And yet you, Dave, elevate yourself as judge over all men, and your judgments above His.
You claim to worship Jesus Christ while you reinvent His word, and despise His Laws. Your "worship" of Him is just a fashion statement. You treat the His Name like a trinket or an anti-culture pair of jeans. His Precious Blood is like Pabst Blue Ribbon to you. A cheap beer to get you buzzed and then pissed out, and hopefully you get some attention while you're at it.
You're the quintessential narcissist having no use for Christ whatsoever.
His anger with your shit is boiling over and yet you mock, which is to be expected. It's all you have. You serve devils and you're ruled by them. Mocking devils destined for destruction. May the Lord deal with your devilry swiftly! He will not countenance being mocked!
I rebuke you, David, and the devils within you in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, Whose Power is greater than all men! May He deal swiftly with your wickedness.
Dave Sparrow You judge me out of the fullness of your own heart. You presume to see my heart and know my ways. I don't understand how you have come to this misunderstanding. But your petty assaults are meaningless to me.
Martin VanPopta I'm judging the fullness of your heart by the Fullness of His Spirit. Your heart is manifest by your word and deed and is plain for all who have eyes to see.
Dave Sparrow I'm not thankful that you are so ready and willing to point the finger, that the only interaction I have seen of yours over the years is berating and accusing people, as if you have special knowledge and insights into people's hearts and minds. On the occasions that you could see Christ in someone and commend them for it, you would also take on the role of a prophet and call people to repentance. Perhaps the intellectual aim is noble, but your praxis violates your message. How it sounds to my ears, is that we ought to all think the way you do. This is tragic.
Martin VanPopta Yes, David, I spent many years in darkness, cynicism, dishonesty and condescension. I presumed to be better than others and His wrath was on me. I justified my own vileness as you know, while putting the onus on everybody else. I'm not saying that everything I said to others during that time was wrong, although much of it was, but I can certainly admit I was coming from a place of great pride and arrogance.
I was ruled by the spirit of Calvin (not that Calving is to blame), loving the condemnation he had for others, because it helped distract me from the grossness of my own sins. I was a sexual deviant myself. A lover of pornography and a drug using escapist. But where sin abounded His Grace abounded more.
The Lord called me out of that and gave me repentance. Then after a time He gave me His Spirit and I am no longer a slave to my sins.
I will proclaim Jesus Christ boldly by His Grace, on account of His Salvation. It is my calling to preach against godlessness and warn people about the Wrath of God against sin. Would it be the Love of Christ for me to remain silent? Do the Scriptures not declare that we should proclaim on the housetops what He has whispered in our ear? God forbid that I be silent!
If preaching with the Spirit of Boldness that He has given me is having "the role of a prophet" as you say, then so be it. Doesn't Joel prophesy in Joel 2:28 that "It will come about after this That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind; And your sons and daughters will prophesy."
I don't believe for a second that everyone should think as I do, but rather that all should think as He does, as He has given me the Mind to do.
"For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ." (1 Corr. 2:16)
This is not an intellectual aim or a carnal pontification. It is the Word of God come to people who don't want to hear it.
Dave Sparrow I hope that you can find a way to say what you think needs to be said without embarrassing and embittering others.
Martin VanPopta There is no hope for that. That which needs to be said for His sake will always offend and embitter those who oppose Him. God forbid that I should seek for a way to please men rather than Him.
Do you think Jesus was concerned with offending men?
"Then the disciples came and said to him, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?” He answered, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit." "(Matt 15:12-14)
Shouldn't you know this?
Rather, shouldn't your hope should be that those hearing, not be embarrassed or embittered by the Truth spoken.
"And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in Me." (Matthew 11:6)
Which Scriptures are you reading?
Which Jesus are you worshiping?
You've gone after another gospel and another Christ because with your father, Satan, you savor the things of the flesh.
Dave Sparrow Well, I'm going to get on with my life. Maybe we'll talk in ten years. See ya.
Alyssa Brown Martin "Do you think Jesus was concerned with offending men?". No.. I will agree with you on that. But Jesus certainly did not treat people the way you are. If you want to justify your words/actions by WWJD, then perhaps you should look at all aspects of that, not just one side. I am not "smart" enough to get into this debate, but I am smart enough to know this telling someone that their father is Satan via Facebook is tasteless.
Mike Vandergugten I think we would all do well to assess our own thoughts, words, and actions by looking at the mirror of God's Word, particularly in the following passage.
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another."
Galatians 5:22-26 NKJV
Martin VanPopta Alyssa Brown This has nothing to do with "taste". Isn't taste the measure of how much a man will savor something? Determining what is right and wrong based on what men savor is the essence of Satan.
Mat 16:23 But He turned and said to Peter, Go, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you do not savor the things that are of God, but those that are of men.
Jesus said this to His own friend, because He saw that Peter was desiring what his flesh wanted rather than seeking after the Will of the Father. By your judgment of me, you condemn Jesus Christ as well.
I should make a clarification here. David doesn't believe the Lord and His Word as Peter did. Neither do the rest of the men speaking here. They understand His word according to their own pleasure because they savor the things of men, just as Mike is demonstrating above.
You see, Satan comes to be our savior as well. But He comes to save the physical man at the expense and death of the spiritual man. Jesus Christ comes to save the spiritual man at the expense and death of the physical man.
Satan is the nicest guy you'll ever meet. He runs the Bible study and keeps the collection pot. Why do you think Jesus said to the upstanding Pharisees that their father was Satan? But his mission is to destroy life by telling sweet sounding lies.
Jesus Christ, on the other hand, is seen as a jerk because He comes bringing Life by speaking the hard Truth.
The trouble is, you think that just because I'm speaking directly and honestly that I'm being hateful and sinful. I love my cousins and the others who are part of this conversation, just as the Lord has given me the grace to love all men as I ought to, according to the Spirit and not the flesh. I would rejoice if any of you believed the Word I've been given to bring you. But God forbid that I entice or proselytize any of you. The Lord draws whom He wills.
None of you are speaking with understanding. Don't you realize that the Spirit spoken of in Galatians 5:22-26 starved His own chosen people until they ate their children, just as He promised He would if they stubbornly disobeyed. And the same Spirit, God Himself, struck Annanias and Saphira dead with no opportunity for repentance so that the people would fear and obey. That doesn't seem very gentle, peaceful, or long suffering does it?
But, Mike Vandergugten, you post scripture insinuating that the love, kindness and goodness spoken about in the passage you quoted are the same kind you have experienced in your flesh. Like when we hold a baby or a puppy and coddle them. The love you preach is false!
(Here's a worthwhile read The Lovely Essence of Satan)
What about what the Loving Father says?
Heb 12:6 for whom the Lord loves He chastens, and He scourges every son whom He receives."
Do you know what scourging feels like? And if He scourges those whom He loves, what end do you think comes to those who take His Name in vain? Will He hold them guiltless?
Exo 20:7 You shall not take the name of Jehovah your God in vain. For Jehovah will not hold him guiltless that takes His name in vain.
Alyssa, you have judged me by the way I appear to you, not with substance according to His Word.
Rom 8:5 For they who are according to the flesh mind the things of flesh, but they who are according to the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Besides calling me a classless jerk, do you actually have any substance.
(side note) Don't think that I don't understand what I look like or why people are responding the way they are. I know that in a former life, I would condemn me too. But I'm willing to be a fool for Christ who died for me while I was yet a sinner!
Am I preaching false doctrine or loose morals? Am I contradicting scripture? Or is bluntness, reality, and honesty so far removed from your religious circles that it's become frightful?
His wrath comes for those who hide in the shadows despising the light. I've come shining His Light and He is despised in it.
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
Mike Vandergugten Martin, this quite enough.
Go find something else to do.
Namely, I suggest you take my advice and assess yourself according to the previous conment: by the fruits of the Spirit, and let the Spirit do His work on the many people you have interacted with. You don't need to bludgeon people with His Word. Trust the Holy Spirit.
Martin VanPopta I have been continually before the Lord in all of this, because I do trust the Holy Spirit. The Spirit IS doing His work. As far as not bludgeoning, have you not read the Scripture?
23:28 The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream. And he who has My Word, let him speak My Word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? says Jehovah.
Jer 23:29 Is not My Word like a fire? says Jehovah; and like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?
It's your hardness that's the problem here, Mike Vandergugten, making need for a hammer. How can "I find something else to do" when my job is to speak His Word faithfully?
Mike, why don't you sound a clear trumpet? If I'm for evil and I'm sinning against the Lord in what I've said here then rebuke me and show me my sin.
But if I'm speaking the Truth then why won't you hear it?
I'm either stark raving mad or you're in deep trouble for despising the Truth. I don't see any in between. Do you?
Deborah Huttema Martin who are you fooling? No one but yourself. Your ranting is just that, ranting and raging. You should find a different forum.
Denise VanDelft Martin, I do not know you- at all. But I have never seen such degradation and hateful words spoken 'in the name of of our LORD' to individuals.
I thank our God that he alone is the one to judge man, and our job is to live a life of mercy and love as Chist did.
May we hallow his name in all we say and discuss.
Martin VanPopta Deborah Huttema I'm not here to fool around. Should the prophets have found a "different forum" also? You are as the Pharisees, found in their hypocrisy to have the blood of the innocent on their hands by Jesus Christ Himself.
Mat 23:27 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which indeed appear beautiful outside, but inside they are full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so you also appear righteous to men outwardly, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Mat 23:29 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets, and decorate the tombs of the righteous,
Mat 23:30 and say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Mat 23:31 Therefore you are witnesses to yourselves, that you are the sons of those who killed the prophets;
Mat 23:32 and you fill up the measure of your fathers.
Mat 23:33 Serpents! Offspring of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?
Mat 23:34 Therefore, behold, I send prophets and wise men and scribes to you. And you will kill and crucify some of them. And some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city;
Mat 23:35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Berachiah, whom you killed between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 Truly I say to you, All these things shall come on this generation.
Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to her, how often would I have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you would not!
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left to you desolate.
Mat 23:39 For I say to you, You shall not see Me from now on until you say, "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord."
Deborah, you have not an iota of Scripture or Truth to convince me of sin.
I'm speaking to you, being filled with the Spirit of God and you brashly tell Him to "find a different forum", just as the Pharisees demanded of Peter and John that they be silent and refrain from proclaiming Jesus Christ.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand My Speech? even because ye cannot hear My Word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Joh 8:46 Which of you convinceth Me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe Me?
Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Yes, just as Mat 23:28 declares, you are all about the outward appearance of righteousness unto men, but you know nothing of Him and oppose Him steadfastly as He comes.
You worship false gods, and the jesus you know is indeed Satan, the imposter, dressed up as Jesus, like a sow wearing an evening gown and red lipstick.
You are not of God or you would know that I'm coming with His Truth to give Life and to give It abundantly.
Why not consider what I'm saying. Is it so far above all of you to consider being wrong? Isn't it possible, just like the Roman Catholic Church and the many other denominations that you all wickedly condemn to Hell, that you could be dead wrong as well.
It's not just possible. It's true.
Your "Reformed" Churches are of the their Mother the Harlot (the Roman Catholic Church) and are twice the children of Hell that she is.
You won't get away with telling God to shut up, Deborah. You will give an account for brushing Him off.
Martin VanPopta Denise VanDelft Haven't you read :
1Co 6:2 Do you not know that the saints shall judge the world? And if the world shall be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels, not to mention the things of this life?
and
Jud 1:14 And Enoch, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied to these, saying, Behold, the Lord came with myriads of His saints,
Jud 1:15 to do judgment against all, and to rebuke all the ungodly of them concerning all their ungodly works which they ungodly did, and concerning all the hard things ungodly sinners spoke against Him.
Yes, the Lord is the only One fit to judge a man heart. But don't you recognize that He gives this ability and authority to His Saints by the Understanding that comes with the indwelling of His Spirit?
Or do you deny the two scriptures above? Do they not establish that men, by Him and His Revelation, will be judging this world?
Have none of you read the Scriptures? Yes, you have, but as the Scriptures declare, the dead don't know anything.
Ecc 9:4 For whoever is chosen, to all those living, there is hope; for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die; but the dead do not know anything, nor do they have any more a reward; for their memory is forgotten.
I would rather be the least of creatures and live by Him, than be the great, proud, religious kings of the jungle that all of you are and dead as a doornail.
And just how do you define degradation? And by that definition are the Prophets and even Jesus Christ also condemned? Where am I guilty and they're not?
And as for your religious crap about hallowing His Name, it stinks to High Heaven. The Lord has to plug His Nostrils when you speak like that.
You haven't a clue what it means to make His Name Holy. You just want me to submit to your desire for me to be silent, and so you throw religious lingo at me like poorly aimed dogshit and you've rendered yourself unclean in the act. How will you hallow His Name with filth on your hands and in your mouth.
Besides experiencing discomfort when I'm talking, do you have any scripturally sound accusations to charge me with or is this just another mob screaming "Crucify Him, Crucify Him!"
Jon Luiten *eats popcorn.
Dave Sparrow have you ever tried nutritional yeast on it? super tasty.
Jon Luiten *throws up mouth a little
Martin VanPopta Yes, Jon, you're very funny aren't you. The Day of the Lord comes and you'll eat popcorn. I suppose there were those snickering at Jesus when He trashed the temple.
"What His problem? What a drama queen! Somebody get the popcorn! LOL!"
And what end do you think they came to when Jerusalem was destroyed?
Darla Sparrow I laugh because most likely you've all taken a piss in a washroom with a transgendered before and........ Nothing happened cuz everyone just needs to pee!!!!!
Misty Baardsen VanPopta At the expense of being name called and judged and accused of being ____________ (insert any variety of un-Christiany things), I'm going to say the following on the topic.
And I'm speaking on the topic of transgender and NOT on the legislation (for which I haven't invested any brain cells into looking at yet).
I'm tired of seeing the hate.
I know good Christian people whose child struggled with gender identity from the time before he could be influenced by society and media. Toddler age. His whole life until his 20's. Suicide attempts, alienation of friends who couldn't identify with the struggle, always feeling like a freak, withdrawal from church because of the lack of love, being a complete loner with no friends. All with parents who prayed fervently and loved unconditionally. You could see the torment everyday on his face.
The struggle is real regardless of whether we agree on why they struggle (Satan, mental illness, whatever makes you feel better to condemn them).
I truly believe that God made us all; healthy, disabled, black, white, purple, gay, poor, wealthy. For what purpose we each hold, I don't know. We all have our responsibility in how we were born to live in Christ like ways. And just because I acknowledge their existence doesn't mean I agree with all of either lifestyle choices either. But what I do know, is that our treatment towards those we can't identify with (in which ever direction you are looking) is where we get it wrong. And calling people deviants and/or petophiles because of your own lack of admission that God does make us all different, is so wrong!
My interpretation of what Darla posted is that people who do identify as transgender, those who have gone through the years of psychological assessments and years of therapy required prior to gender reassignment, are not who we should be fearing for our children. Petophiles don't change their gender to get at kids or gawk at the "opposite" sex.
Now saying this, I too have a problem with open concept bathrooms. BUT I will not take it far enough to say that transgender cannot be accommodated in other ways. But that's a discussion for another day.
Martin VanPopta This boy you speak of sounds like he had a rough go. A tormented soul. His struggle was obviously very real.
While God does purpose and has sovereignty over all things, He does not create gay or transgender people. It's the flesh that corrupts that which is made in His Image.
I understand that many of the tortured individuals who are confused about and/or rebel against their physiology have no intention of raping and harassing, However, I don't recognize an obligation to accommodate deviations from His Law especially at the expense of safety for others.
You say that "Petophiles don't change their identity to get at kids or gawk at the opposite sex". How do you know they won't if the Law changes? The law would allow any man to walk into a girl's bathroom at an elementary school and basically plead sexual insanity if he is accused of bad motives.
I think that I can safely assume that the name calling, judging and accusing concerns are directed at me. Do you realize your own contradiction in mentioning these things?
You have called me a name caller, judged me as judgmental and accused me of un-Christian conduct. How do you make sense of these things?
[END THREAD]
Read Revelation on Transsexuality