The System

[Simon Hall]

Is it really any of our concern even if both Pharaoh and Hitler did what they did because they were racist. Maybe they were both very racist. Their motive should not be important to us. Plus, how or why the Lord chooses to make a vessel a vessel of dishonour in the first place, also shouldn't be any concern of ours. We have all been vessels of dishonour at some stage. What we should be asking the Lord is, "Lord where am I in wrongness that this is happening to me? If there is something I need to repent of, please show me. What do you want me to learn".

Proverbs 26:2 (WEB) Like a fluttering sparrow, like a darting swallow, so the undeserved curse doesn't come to rest.

Maybe we just needed to learn thankfulness and to trust in the Lord in everything.

Look at the Apostle Paul and what he communicates in 2 Corinthians 16 -31 (WEB)

I say again, let no one think me foolish. But if so, yet receive me as foolish, that I also may boast a little. That which I speak, I don't speak according to the Lord, but as in foolishness, in this confidence of boasting. Seeing that many boast after the flesh, I will also boast. For you bear with the foolish gladly, being wise. For you bear with a man, if he brings you into bondage, if he devours you, if he takes you captive, if he exalts himself, if he strikes you on the face. I speak by way of disparagement, as though we had been weak. Yet however any is bold (I speak in foolishness), I am bold also. Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? So am I. Are they servants of Christ? (I speak as one beside himself) I am more so; in labors more abundantly, in prisons more abundantly, in stripes above measure, in deaths often. Five times from the Jews I received forty stripes minus one. Three times I was beaten with rods. Once I was stoned. Three times I suffered shipwreck. I have been a night and a day in the deep. I have been in travels often, perils of rivers, perils of robbers, perils from my countrymen, perils from the Gentiles, perils in the city, perils in the wilderness, perils in the sea, perils among false brothers; in labor and travail, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, and in cold and nakedness. Besides those things that are outside, there is that which presses on me daily, anxiety for all the assemblies. Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is caused to stumble, and I don't burn with indignation?
If I must boast, I will boast of the things that concern my weakness. The God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ, he who is blessed forevermore, knows that I don't lie.

Makes a lot of the things that happen to us, pale off into insignificance, doesn't it?
We each have our own things to bear. And they are not to be compared.

There is only one person who has suffered undeservedly in this world. That One being our Lord, while yet in the flesh.

He, in the days of his flesh, having offered up prayers and petitions with strong crying and tears to him who was able to save him from death, and having been heard for his godly fear, though he was a Son, yet learned obedience by the things which he suffered. Having been made perfect, he became to all of those who obey him the author of eternal salvation, named by God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek. Hebrews 5: 7-10 (WEB)

I wasn't in the Sabbath chat last weekend, but after reading it, Lord willing, we've come a full circle. Not to be confused with going around in circles.

What do you think, Kelechi?

[Tang Williams]

Thank you Simon, Martin and all. Thank you Lord for your revelation! Amen.

[Kelechi Ogbaa]

I hear you Simon... whether they were racist or not, isn't the point. The point is that the Jews deserved it because they were and are a wicked people (rejecting Jesus by and by) just like I am. We aren't victims of racism, we are the offenders. We deserved being enslaved and slaughtered just like the Jews deserved being enslaved and slaughtered. Because of our wicked nature that required humbling and correction.

[William Woeger]

Kelechi,

What are your honest thoughts about BLM? The violent hate group that doesn't truly believe that black lives matter.

From reading your latest responses I get the sense that you're being disingenuous. Do you believe black people, or any people deserve to be hated, enslaved or slaughtered? If not deserving, then why is this evil necessary? What do you truly believe?

You were being straightforward and honest before, why lie and pretend now?

W

[Paul Cohen]

Is it really any of our concern even if both Pharaoh and Hitler did what they did because they were racist. Maybe they were both very racist. Their motive should not be important to us. Plus, how or why the Lord chooses to make a vessel a vessel of dishonour in the first place, also shouldn't be any concern of ours. We have all been vessels of dishonour at some stage. What we should be asking the Lord is, "Lord where am I in wrongness that this is happening to me? If there is something I need to repent of, please show me. What do you want me to learn".

Proverbs 26:2 (WEB) Like a fluttering sparrow, like a darting swallow, so the undeserved curse doesn't come to rest.

Maybe we just needed to learn thankfulness and to trust in the Lord in everything.

Look at the Apostle Paul and what he communicates in 2 Corinthians 16 -31 (WEB)

I say again, let no one think me foolish. But if so, yet receive me as foolish, that I also may boast a little. That which I speak, I don't speak according to the Lord, but as in foolishness, in this confidence of boasting. Seeing that many boast after the flesh, I will also boast. For you bear with the foolish gladly, being wise. For you bear with a man, if he brings you into bondage, if he devours you, if he takes you captive, if he exalts himself, if he strikes you on the face. I speak by way of disparagement, as though we had been weak. Yet however any is bold (I speak in foolishness), I am bold also. Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? So am I. Are they servants of Christ? (I speak as one beside himself) I am more so; in labors more abundantly, in prisons more abundantly, in stripes above measure, in deaths often. Five times from the Jews I received forty stripes minus one. Three times I was beaten with rods. Once I was stoned. Three times I suffered shipwreck. I have been a night and a day in the deep. I have been in travels often, perils of rivers, perils of robbers, perils from my countrymen, perils from the Gentiles, perils in the city, perils in the wilderness, perils in the sea, perils among false brothers; in labor and travail, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, and in cold and nakedness. Besides those things that are outside, there is that which presses on me daily, anxiety for all the assemblies. Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is caused to stumble, and I don't burn with indignation?
If I must boast, I will boast of the things that concern my weakness. The God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ, he who is blessed forevermore, knows that I don't lie.

Makes a lot of the things that happen to us, pale off into insignificance, doesn't it?
We each have our own things to bear. And they are not to be compared.

There is only one person who has suffered undeservedly in this world. That One being our Lord, while yet in the flesh.

He, in the days of his flesh, having offered up prayers and petitions with strong crying and tears to him who was able to save him from death, and having been heard for his godly fear, though he was a Son, yet learned obedience by the things which he suffered. Having been made perfect, he became to all of those who obey him the author of eternal salvation, named by God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek. Hebrews 5: 7-10 (WEB)

I wasn't in the Sabbath chat last weekend, but after reading it, Lord willing, we've come a full circle. Not to be confused with going around in circles.

What do you think, Kelechi?

Simon, you say some good things here, but you've also left the door open for comparing apples to oranges. The things the apostle Paul suffered were for the Lord's Name sake and not on account of a reigning sin nature, which is what we've been talking about with Kelechi. We ought not to equate or allow equivalence for the two kinds of suffering.

And, there actually are people who suffer undeservedly in this world - the verses you quote from Paul are just one of many such examples in the Scriptures of God's martyrs. "All those who live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." I think you know and believe these things, but your language here hasn't clearly reflected the reality, so I'm taking this opportunity to bring home a crucial point.

[Kelechi Ogbaa]

Thank you Paul for particularly clarifying this crucial piece. I personally believed that people can undeservingly suffer racism. Thinking it isn't fair to receive bad treatment for skin color. But apparently the only undeserved bad treatment is when it is for the Lord's sake and His sake alone. Is this a correct interpretation?

[Simon Hall]

Thanks for closing that door, Paul.

It most definitely needed closing.

It wasn’t my motive to equate the two different types of suffering in the way that you point out, but I can see how I did.

[Kelechi Ogbaa]

It wasn't your motive?

I know you're trying to help Simon.

[Paul Cohen]

Of course people can suffer racism and other forms of discrimination without having personally offended. Get behind us, Satan, liar who twists the truth. The point here is that you, walking in offendedness, are offensive to man and God, and suffer His wrath.

You continually come back with guile and subtlety, justifying the guilty (yourself) while maligning the innocent. You act as if you’re bringing us roses of truth, but William has expressed what others here also smell, a shit pile of lies.

So take your condescending “I know you’re trying to help [comma] Simon,” attitude elsewhere, Kelechi. It’s not welcome here.

[Beryl Knipe]

Thank you, Paul!
Let's hope "The System" doors remain firmly shut!
Beryl.

[Terri Cabreros]

Thank you, Tang for sharing your story. I appreciated it.

[Dennison Rivera]

The following forum post relates to this subject and an audio recording posted below:

Read more about what happened with Kelechi Ogbaa:
Rokkaman Bolts the Corral

Listen to the Audio Recording: Kelechi's Bitterness Exposed About "The System" - August 21, 2016