The System

[Paul Cohen]

Kelechi, you write:

"'My blanket statement' wasn't to justify myself and claim I am righteous. I made that statement to acknowledge that even Christ was hated, albeit for his righteousness. So if even He was hated by wicked men, and wicked men hate each other... we will not escape hatred whether we are righteous or wicked. I honestly felt I was making the case for why it shouldn't bother me. It's reality..."

The more you try to justify yourself, the stupider you get.

1 Peter 2:18-20 MKJV
(18) Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear, not only to those good and forbearing, but also to the perverse ones.
(19) For this is a grace, if for conscience toward God anyone endures grief, suffering wrongfully.
(20) For what glory is it if you patiently endure while sinning and being buffeted? But if you suffer while doing good, and patiently endure, this is a grace from God.

" Guess I'm yet unrepentant... the Lord deal with me as needed."

Do you want to guess, or do you want to know? Are you asking the Lord to deal with a stubborn mule or will you stop being such a jackass?

Psalms 32:8-10 ESV
(8) I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; I will counsel you with My eye upon you.
(9) Be not like a horse or a mule, without understanding, which must be curbed with bit and bridle, or it will not stay near you.
(10) Many are the sorrows of the wicked, but steadfast love surrounds the one who trusts in the LORD.

[Martin Van Popta]

Kelechi, you wrote a comment to Dennison that was both clear and concise. Why did you remove that one?

[Martin Van Popta]

Kelechi wrote and then deleted,

"Dennison, I don't disagree that I'm not right with the Lord... which is clear by my not having His Spirit but it must be getting easy for you to regurgitate those same blanket answers without any real substance.

"Your heart's not right, you have to die to yourself." I wonder how many years I'm going to hear that from you. Until I understand it, I'm sure...
but I wonder if you do?

What is your motive for wanting something for me that you yourself don't have?"

[Martin Van Popta]

The truth is, Kelechi, you're only making black people look worse by demonstrating the validity of the stereotype.

You say, "Dennison, I don't disagree that I'm not right with the Lord... which is clear by my not having His Spirit"

There are many examples in the Scriptures of people being right with the Lord while awaiting His Spirit. Cornelius in Acts being a prime example as well as many in our midst. In fact, being right with the Lord is a prerequisite of receiving His Spirit.

"We are witnesses to these things---we and the Holy Spirit, who is God's gift to those who obey him." (Acts 5:32)

You said, "but it must be getting easy for you to regurgitate those same blanket answers without any real substance. "

Talk about self righteous bitterness and envy. You're a jerk, Kelechi. A proud one, who "humbly" admits he's not right with God, while presuming to be the judge over Dennison, who has handed his life over to His servants to be made right with God.

You write, "'Your heart's not right, you have to die to yourself.' I wonder how many years I'm going to hear that from you. Until I understand it, I'm sure...
but I wonder if you do?

Dennison is starting to get the picture. Are you?

You ask, "What is your motive for wanting something for me that you yourself don't have?"

Love, which is something you haven't experienced.

Are you getting the picture yet? You're a big fat know-it-all jerk. And a bully too.

You're just trying to hide the fact that you're an asshole by accusing us of racism, just like all the other black men who's countenances are as dark as their skin. Do you see us hating Darrell for his colour? Isn't he received here?

You're an anti-Christ jerk who happens to be black. Your attitude stinks!

[Ronnie Tanner]

Below are two posts that Kelechi deleted in this thread:

A man is always hated. If not for his wealth, his wife. If not for his wife
his children, if not for his children, his house. If not for his house, his
clothes. If not for his clothes his poverty. If not for his poverty, his
wickedness. If not for his wickedness his righteousness.
I grew up being hated for every reason by everyone, all the time. You
really think skin and racism bothers me anymore? If I have a problem its
with ignorance. My own but especially others. It's through our ignorance we
cause eachother pain.

Dennison, I don't disagree that I'm not right with the Lord... which is
clear by my not having His Spirit but it must be getting easy for you to
regurgitate those same blanket answers without any real substance.

"Your heart's not right, you have to die to yourself." I wonder how many
years I'm going to hear that from you. Until I understand it, I'm sure...
but I wonder if you do?

What is your motive for wanting something for me that you yourself don't
have?

[Olufemi Ige]

Yes, Simon, you are right that I was neither in the conference call nor aware of the root cause of this thread of exchanges. Am sorry for my foolishness in answering before listening and for adding fuel to fire as stated. Lord forgive my folly and grant Your discernment and revelations in issues You deal with.

[Kelechi Ogbaa]

Thank you Martin for your thorough response. All my questions were answered.

I don't believe in the Lord. I don't trust Him, nor am I patient in anything.
I'm frustrated that I don't understand anything and I have a terrible attitude about it because I believe I deserve to know. I believe I deserve to know because i'm self-centered. I am my own idol, my own god, serving myself. I hate white people because I think they're evil. Frankly I hate anyone that hates me. Actually I hate everyone including the Lord because I fight with everyone and everything. My last name means "wrestler"... and that is so true of me because I wrestle with everything in life. I want to subdue people, ideas and things. I want to conquer and have control because I believe i'll be safe if the choice and power is in my hands. I want to protect myself because I've been betrayed and hurt by everyone I've ever considered close and so I don't want to be hurt anymore.

I also believe half the people here at the POT are faking and pretending. I don't believe they're sincere probably because i'm not sincere and i'm reflecting my attitude on them. I cringe when I hear people say "Good Sabbath" because I don't believe they understand it and I think they do it for formalities sake. I also hate when I attempt to correct others (though I feel compelled to and end up doing it anyway) because I know I am no better. With that, I hate when people here who don't have the Holy Spirit attempt to correct me and others as well. I believe they are hypocrites who don't know or see anymore than I do so what insight could they possibly have? I believe if they did and were truly repentant, they'd have the Holy Spirit and since they don't... they're just as blind as I am.

I cringe when Dennison says anything to me because I've seen how he's backslid so much and it reminds me of my own hypocrisy so I hate him for it. I think to myself "You talk like you know what you're saying now, then a month later you go back into your sins... if you really believed the things you were saying why do you keep failing?"

Initially I hated Martin because I thought he was a know it all not hearing from the Lord but rather using fear tactics to intimidate people into believing him and then always using the Lord as his defense and justification for everything he says and does. It seemed extremely self-righteous to me.

Honestly I don't think i'm being called or chosen of God. I think I am here because i'm scared about what will happen to me when I die. And so I want to feel safe doing what I believe i'm supposed to do without actually caring if it's actually what i'm supposed to be doing. I'm a fraud and a phony, very bitter and stubborn. I have always been my whole entire life and despite saying i'm suffering. I actually think I enjoy it deep down. I'm a devil in every sense of the word.

But here's the biggest issue troubling my heart.

A seed of doubt was sown in my heart when Victor prophesied that school wouldn't work out or that my parents wouldn't help. He said on the phone "I think this is what i'm receiving is there anyone else who has a witness?" Then someone spoke up (I forgot which of the ladies it was but she said) "I think I have a witness and I don't think it's going to work out either"

I thought to myself, "who the hell does she think she is when she doesn't even have the Holy Spirit? Does she hear from the Lord too or is she just blindly agreeing with Victor." That's how it seemed in my eyes. Half the people here don't agree because they do, they agree because they know that's what they're supposed to do. It seems fake. And how could Victor deliver a prophecy he wasn't sure about? He said "I say these things fearfully because they are life changing and I believe this is what i'm receiving but I might err"

Is that how prophets talk?

In my ears, it was as if he was saying

"I think this is a Word from the Lord but just in case it might not be, let me give you the disclaimer and say I might be in error, that way i'm right if it's right and right if it's wrong"

At that point I was so sold on the POT... and would literally do ANYTHING that was asked of me (an attitude that has devastated me and caused me to lose so much in life because I blindly trusted people I thought I could trust)

But when that happened I thought... "I was getting ready to quit school if this man simply said it but now his word from the Lord is a hunch?"

This is my life, don't play with me with hunches.
Either you unequivocally heard from the Lord or it's your own presumptions.

You said Abraham knew the voice of the Lord... and now here, you yourself were unsure. I hated you for that Victor (because it made me feel you were no more sure about hearing from God than I am).

And shortly after... the opposite of what was said... happened. School was paid for and my family generously helped with promise of continued support.

Now maybe i'm being presumptuous, and school may not work out... something can always happen to stop it... (I now really hope it doesn't so that God will have glorified his servant in my eyes and I can for sure without a doubt know the Lord is in you). But at this point I know I couldn't accept a command to stop after speaking everything I've spoken. God would have to end it in His own way for me to believe the Lord is with you.

Martin's response quenched the fires in my soul and
now has prompted me to be fully honest with you all.

Doubt was sown deeply into my heart that day and I battled it, lost, and became discouraged and resentful to everyone here. I stopped believing in you all.

I want you to be a man of God Victor. I need you to be a man of God. I want and need this Jesus story to be true with every fiber of my being but at the same time deep down I know I don't believe it. I'm not convinced. Even without believing or being convinced I know there is no hope outside of Jesus. His Story is my last and only hope in this world. If not for Jesus, I would've already done some very wicked things concerning racism, because I am bitter, I am resentful and I have a lot of hatred for a lot of people and a lot of things in this world. I've been lied to and deceived by so many people and right when I think I've found the truth... I get deceived again. I am a wicked offender reaping everything I sow.

I'm sure these words may be detestable to you all, wreaking of folly and sin on so many levels but it is what is inside of me. It is my offense, my sin, the doubt and faithlessness that is in my heart.

Forgive my attitude and everything I've done to you all so far. But this is really what's bothering me.

[Dennison Rivera]

I don't condemn you for thinking that way about me, and I don't blame you for thinking that way either. I deserve it.

Truth is that I couldn't have "backslid" from something I wasn't in the first place or claimed to be. I was a "bullshitter" in every way. I'm sorry for pretending to be something I wasn't and as if I was a know-it-all. It was evil, but I do believe what was intended for evil, God used for good. Forgive me as well.

However, I do now say by what the Lord is doing, is that I identify with the Lord and not what I was.

I appreciate your honesty, and this is what I want to talk about, not tangents that deviate from whats truly in your heart. Let's talk about what's real not distractions, smoke and mirrors, or mirages.

[Oneil Richards]

Kelechi,
You're a confounded man, a racist, a unrepentant and an attention whore who will do any and say anything as long as it keeps you in the spotlight. These were the words that were in my thoughts this morning as I was about to go back to sleep. Then I red this last post you did. You're a classic example one going mad off his own hate and bitterness. Just the thoughts of these white men(Victor and Martin) being true servants of the Risen lord is a dagger to the heart of a serpent such as yourself and so it will continue to be. You're one who deemed blacks to be superior to all others, and you yourself as a god to be worshipped. You forever carry on and on hoping you'll prove whatever devilish points you can continue to muster. You think yourself to be more righteous than your Creator as you continue to try and usurp His authority. You call those who obey Him blind followers. What a righteous fellow you are. You lie through your teeth about wanting to be so wrong that the Lord servant might be glorified. But know that the Lord will be glorified in all He wills and his servant's only duty is to obey.

[Darrell Kane]

Kelechi, continue to be honest. Better to have said that! Than to be fake!

[Martin Van Popta]

Good morning, Kelechi.

"I've simply not been given the faith to receive anything you guys are saying because it doesn't sound right."

When the Lord gives somebody to receive something, it often doesn't "sound right" (eg. Abraham required to offer his son). Also, stop blaming your lack of faith on God. His Hand is outstretched and you're biting it.

"I want to protect myself because I've been betrayed and hurt by everyone I've ever considered close and so I don't want to be hurt anymore......I've been lied to and deceived by so many people and right when I think I've found the truth... I get deceived again."

Take the focus off of yourself and start thinking about the people you've deceived and hurt, and reach out to them to make amends. Not only will it open your eyes with a fresh perspective, it will also be an avenue for being made whole again. If you don't want to be hurt, stop hurting people. Do unto others......

"I also believe half the people here at the POT are faking and pretending."

And what of it? Everybody has to come through insincerity into the Truth, and I could add, resist it as we continue to walk. Should we all be condemned when we begin our walk or if we falter.

"I cringe when I hear people say "Good Sabbath" because I don't believe they understand it and I think they do it for formalities sake."

Just because you're a fake, it doesn't mean everybody else is too. I had to come through this one as well. Stop being so cynical.

"Honestly I don't think i'm being called or chosen of God. I think I am here because i'm scared about what will happen to me when I die."

Understandable doubts. Are you willing move past them? You certainly have been called.

"Then someone spoke up (I forgot which of the ladies it was but she said) "I think I have a witness and I don't think it's going to work out either" I thought to myself, "who the hell does she think she is when she doesn't even have the Holy Spirit?"

Not that I'm conceding to your line of reasoning, but I will point out that you don't know who has received the Spirit and who hasn't. You become the victim of your own assumptions. Diana has received His Spirit, and it may have been her that spoke. Are you starting to see how little you know?

"This is my life, don't play with me with hunches."

As demonstrated above, you operate on hunches all the time. You are so quick to doubt others, and so certain of yourself. Do you see how foolish that is? Anytime you trust man (somebody else or yourself), you are going on a hunch.

"God would have to end it in His own way for me to believe the Lord is with you."

Translation. "I'll see it when I believe it". This is the substance of unbelief.

"I stopped believing in you all."

Good! Let God be true and every man a liar. Now will you start believing God?

"I want you to be a man of God Victor. I need you to be a man of God"

You fault everybody else for worshiping Victor and here you are, dead guilty yourself. When you're unable to look past yourself and see God, you also become unable to look past His servants to see Him. You're stuck on the flesh because of your ego.

"I'm sure these words may be detestable to you all"

Unbelief is detestable, but we've all been there and revisit the territory often. No condemnation coming from anyone here I hope. Inasmuch as you're honest and humble yourself, the Lord will receive you.

"But He gives more grace. Therefore He says, God resists the proud, but He gives grace to the humble.
Therefore submit yourselves to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Draw near to God, and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, sinners; and purify your hearts, double-minded ones.
Be afflicted, and mourn and weep. Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to heaviness.
Be humbled before the Lord, and He will lift you up.
Do not speak against one another, brothers. He who speaks against his brother, and who judges his brother, speaks against the Law and judges the Law. But if you judge the Law, you are not a doer of the Law, but a judge". (James 4:6-11)


If you recognize that you are in desperate need of help from the people you're condemning, you won't have any problem loving your neighbor as your self.

I can't disagree, Oneil, and I don't think Kelechi can either.

[Paul Cohen]

Amen, Martin; well put.

I disagree in part with Oneil. I don't see Kelechi doing and saying anything to be in the spotlight. Unless I’m mistaken, Kelechi’s last letter isn’t attention-seeking, and the previous letters were self-justification rather than whoring after attention. Yes, Kelechi is the center of his own world as even he seems to realize, but I detect some bitterness coming from you, Oneil, coloring your perceptions and response. It’s not just about Kelechi – it’s personal to you.

I can’t and don’t condemn you for your feelings or reaction, because the Lord doesn’t condemn you. You’re being made aware of these things for your sake, that you may consider your spirit before Him.

As for the woman who spoke up – it was Diana. But Kelechi, who are you to judge whether or not she has the Spirit, seeing that only by the Spirit of God can one judge such a matter? And you’re wrong to assume that because someone has the Spirit they’re infallible, or because they don’t have the Spirit they can’t speak the truth. You’re just being stubborn and very foolish judging spiritual matters after the flesh. It is anti-Christ wickedness.

What Victor said about what came to him was entirely in line with Godly counsel:

“Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said” (1 Corinthians 14:29 ESV).

Why weigh if there’s nothing to consider or determine? So who are you to despise the counsel of God or the one who has obviously spoken the truth to you, which you came confessing to us two months ago?

“Here I am again kneeling before you all, the Children of God. Ashamed and disgusted with myself.

“It's as if a man was gladly and contentedly eating his own feces and when true men tried to inform him of his actions he bitterly rebuked them to his own folly and demise. And even though i'd like to think I've realized my deplorable condition, i'm most certain that i'm still ignorant to the depth of my depravity. I don't know what to say or do for i am gripped with shame. How dare I even speak unto you or the Lord. My very own thoughts and words are filthy. My apologetic words are meaningless without true repentance of the mind, body and soul.”

But you’re like those people of Lystra whom Paul and Barnabas had to stop from offering sacrifices to them as gods, the people soon after being persuaded to stone the apostles. Two sides of the same fickle coin of idolatry.

So what are you going to do now, Kelechi? It’s good to be honest about how you’re seeing things, but to what end without the repentance you've so aptly declared you need?

[Kelechi Ogbaa]

I need some time to digest these things. I can't give you a certain answer right now. I can say i'll repent but actions speak louder than words. There's some choices and decisions I need to make and I need some time to evaluate all that has transpired.

[Tang Williams]

We can have many excuses no matter how valid they seem, to choose to be bitter. If I may I would like to share a tiny sample of some of the experiences I have had that should have made me a bitter person.
1. 30 years ago when I was in NZ with my grandma, I was sexually abused by a drunken family male friend. I told my mum, but she decided not to take action. I told my grandma but conveniently chose to ignore me. There was a party at my grandmas house whilst us kids were sleeping in a separate room when the above occurred.

2. All my life I have been tormented, terrorised, deceived and bullied by all the women who mostly are related to me.

3. My own mum deceived me and took my portion of the family land I inherited.

4. When my mum died, the family stole all my mum's money that belonged to me.

5. In 1995 I joined a local mill and worked myself from a cleaner to one of the senior managers or production co-ordinators. The mill was closed from 2007 to 2010 because of the drought. But, I was one of 3 production employees who were kept on for management training because of our work ethic and in dept knowledge of the operation of the mill.

In 2011 when the mill reopened, we were promoted to management but under the site manager who was in charge of all. Of all the managers I was singled out by him. He would call me into his office and tell me how he lived in a 'white' only compound and he would shoot any black person that would try to climb over the security fence. He also said he did 2 year compulsory military service and all they did was hunt down and shoot blacks. He also publicly bragged about this at management parties.

This guy would make life extremely hard and unpleasant. He cut my pay from $90K per annum salary down to $47K per annum for no reason. Then, demote me to a role where I could 'not stand up to him.' I made a formal complaint, with witnesses willing to assist but the Human Resource Manager who was also a 'Justice of the Peace' falsified documents and signatures to say that I was in the wrong.

I left in 2014 and now on <$15K per annum working part-time at an aircraft maintenance business.

6. Just a few weeks ago, I lost nearly all of my super (pension) $200K when the property developer went into liquidation after stealing my investments. I am about to turn 45 years old, and I have to start again.

I have many more stories and some are worse than the above. I could get bitter about those who did me wrong. Yes, I was hurt. Yes, I acted as the victim. But, when I came to TPOT and read teachings such as 'Acceptance' and many others it changed me. I needed or I deserved what occurred to me. I forgive those who did me wrong and I carry no ill will against any of them. I understand the sovereignty of the Lord in my life and hence I do not carry any bitterness.

You know why such as the above had occurred or re-occurred to me in my life? Easy, I am such a man pleaser (something the Lord is dealing with me), and the Lord has always warned me beforehand. I repent for being disobedient to the Lord. Life is extremely painful being disobedient, but I feel free now for trusting the lead of the Lord. I do not know everything, but as I journey with this path with the Lord, I receive instruction on what to read or listen to next on TPOT. There, my questions are getting answered as I move in faith. Trust the Lord (not 'The System') and see bitterness [and confusion] depart from you.

Proverbs 3:5-6
5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

[Paul Cohen]

Amen, Tang; bless the Lord! Thank you for sharing.

[William Woeger]

Yes amen. That's wonderful, Tang. Thank You, Lord!

[Luan Cartwright]

Amen Tang..

[Kelechi Ogbaa]

Thank you so very much Tang. Your humble and patient words of relating your own experience has helped me clearly see my folly. I thank the Lord and you for that. Though everyone else has been essentially saying what you have said; The way you said it put it thoroughly in perspective. It immediately bypassed my ego in order for me to actually receive and perceive the message. We should receive the truth whether it's harsh or sweet because it's the truth, but for some reason your sweetness worked. Thank you.

My sin is my bitterness, unbelief and unrepentance. Whatever the Lord gives me, whether bitter or sweet, just or unjust circumstances... He has given it, and I should be thankful. It's silly to be angry that someone hates me for being black (if that is the case) when it's my lot. If I identify with Him I should accept and expect to suffer because I need it for correction and perfecting. He knows I need it for one reason or another. I don't have to understand it but I need to know and trust Him to lead me through whatever trials I face. I was wrong in my attitude and wrong in my words and unbelief. Dying to myself makes much more sense now. It's only by His righteousness and power will a man be raised from the dead. So what could I ever say or do that is righteous unless it comes from Him?

Thank you all for the correction.

****Edit****
I wanted to add... I also recognize your sweetness worked because of my ego that still needs to die. If I was right with the Lord, I would've heard and submitted to the first rebukes.

[Simon Hall]

Amen. Thank You,Lord.

[Magdalena Lamaison]

Amen! thank you Kelechi, thank you Tang and thank you all here.
Thank You Lord.

[Martin Van Popta]

Kelechi, I believe there is still something that needs to hit home here.

You say, "It's silly to be angry that someone hates me for being black (if that is the case) when it's my lot".

I agree. Not just silly, but wicked.

Obviously, there are still folks out there that will hate you because of pure bigotry, enslaved to their own bitterness as you've been, but that isn't the point that's being made here. While receiving unjustified evil without bitterness is part of our calling, that isn't the "lot" your being called to accept right now. You're not being asked to be a long-suffering, "return evil with good" hero. You're being confronted with the fact that you're the villain. This thread is not about being asked to receive abuse thankfully, but to receive the fact that we've been the abuser, thankfully.

You need to receive that most of the people who you've judged and condemned as racists weren't responding to your skin color. They were seeing the arrogant, high and mighty "black man" spirit you've been operating in and reacting accordingly. You're not guilty for having dark skin, but of walking in the same dark spirit of witchcraft and pride that is common to most black people.

If you change your attitude toward others, and recognize that you have brought most of their "mistreatment of you" on your own head, you will be amazed at how the world changes. You need to forgive others for what you've imagined they have done. Receiving others, you'll be received.

You've been suffering for the sake of unrighteousness. A fool being beaten for his foolishness. You need to repent, forgive, and turn away from your old life. Only then can you begin to suffer for Christ's sake.

Perhaps you understood

[Kelechi Ogbaa]

So what you're saying is...

Even though someone doesn't know me personally or has even had a conversation with me, because of the dark spirit within, i'm a spiritual target for the treatment I receive being the instigator of that treatment?

They unknowingly (maybe sometimes knowingly) respond to the reality and condition of my soul?

[Martin Van Popta]

I would say there's a lot more "knowingly" than you've wanted to realize. But, yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

I believe if you were to look back at the recording of the bible reading where this all started, you will hear Victor relating this exact principle to you. He explained how police officers had been given by God to target him because of where he was at and the correction he needed. And that he experienced these things before and after believing. You should listen to that recording again.

[Darrell Kane]

Kelechi, we need or deserve everything that comes our way. That's the true confession of Jesus Christ being Lord. Trusting that He will work all things out for the good. Was the Israelites enslaved by the Egyptians because of racism or was it part of God process?

[Kelechi Ogbaa]

It was part of God's process.

Just like Hitler didn't exterminate the European Jews because of racism. It was God's judgment and process.

Thank you Darrell for further clarifying.