Trinity and Hell Issues

[Locust Solus]

My name is Terry. I am new to your site. I have investigated some of your site, and I have researched other sites that are openly adverse to yours. I do wonder about the accusations, and will just ask you. Why is there so much drama with the Trinity issue? I see in I John 5:7 the mention of the Father, Word, and Holy Ghost being one. In Daniel 7:13-14 there is mention of the Ancient of Days and the Son of Man receiving glory. Of course Jesus Christ simply tells Philip that he was looking at the Father (John 14:9). Now I am not here to bicker, but to just hear your thoughts on these issues. I believe that God, Jesus Christ are One God through the Holy Spirit. My example would be this. My person is Terry. The words that I speak are a part of me. The spirit within me represent me also. Are there three Terrys? No, but you can see my words, and know that it is Terry. You can meet me in person and see Terry. But you cannot see Terry's spirit. All 3 aspects represent Terry, or me. This is primitive as an example, and I am not comparing myself to God by no means. But another point on there being 3 aspects to the One God is the simple and profound point: who raised Jesus Christ from the dead?

The other question is a simple one. I read on other sites that this site denies there being a hell. I am not sure who to believe, so I am just asking you openly.

I hope all this doesn't offend and my intentions are to just hear it from the source.

I am not affiliated with any denomination, and look forward to hearing your response. Oh! could you also explain the I John 5:8 spirit, water, and blood witnesses? I think it also part of topic.

Okay, thanks.

Terry

[Jason C Lee]

Hi Terry,

While I don't speak for Victor or Paul, I am familiar with teachings that explain what you're asking about. Perhaps you could give these a read and get back to us?

On the trinity:

http://www.thepathoftruth.com/falsehood ... rinity.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.thepathoftruth.com/falsehood ... arians.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.thepathoftruth.com/falsehood ... rinity.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As far as Hell is concerned, the accusations that you are hearing are false. We DO know that Hell is real. However, the reality of Hell is not what nominal Christianity makes it out to be when we examine the substance of the Scriptures.

On Hell:

http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings ... f-hell.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings ... orever.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings ... /index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (section)

Hope these help.

[Jason C Lee]

Hi again Terry,

Another thing I wanted to touch on:

"But another point on there being 3 aspects to the One God is the simple and profound point: who raised Jesus Christ from the dead?"

The answer is Himself. Jesus is the physical manifestation of the Father. He came to earth as the Son, subservient to Himself in the Spirit (which is greater). God exists in all realms and dimensions at all times and is not limited by the laws of physics or the finite human logic.

"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.: Isaiah 9:6 ESV.

How can Jesus be called 'Everlasting Father' if He isn't so? And Jesus also said this:

"Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father '? "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.…" John 14:8-10.

God is not three persons but One in three roles. I am a man, a father and a son yet I am one being. Make sense? Jesus also said this, cementing His authority as the only and final:

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." Revelation 1:8

[Edwin Romero]

Good points made to Terry, Jason. She also gave herself an answer by the example he gave:

"My person is Terry. The words that I speak are a part of me. The spirit within me represent me also. Are there three Terrys? No, but you can see my words, and know that it is Terry. You can meet me in person and see Terry. But you cannot see Terry's spirit. All 3 aspects represent Terry, or me."

Terry says/implies this is an old example given in nominal Christianity. It is true, and they have not been able to see that while we may be comprised of three parts or aspects of our being, we are ONE being, not three. Orthodox Christianity clearly says God is three persons or entities, with individual personalities, comprising one God. We were made in God's image, yet we are not a trinity.

I remember other examples used by trinitarians, by which they contradict what they defend. They say something like, "God is like the sun - the Father is the central ball of fire, the Spirit is the heat it gives, and the Son is the light it shines..." Yet we can see the sun is only one sun, not three. So why call God a trinity? But we know it all comes from the Babylonian mentality of old, with Nimrod (father), Semiramis (mother), and Tamuz (son), their "holy trinity."

[Locust Solus]

I hear you, but still find Galations 1:1 still points at God the Father raising up Jesus Christ. And who is Jesus Christ praying to in John 17? I still believe that the Holy Spirit is what unifies God the Father and Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God. After being baptized by John, the Spirit of God descended upon Jesus. Also, consider how David said "The Lord said unto my Lord."

I still hold to my analogy. When I speak words, the words ARE me. You can say there is Terry's words and there is Terry himself. The beauty of God's Word becoming flesh is profound. God's Word created everything. And yet God is Spirit.

I think what is bothering me in general is the fighting and divisions made. I find believers splitting hairs on issues and then false prophet/teacher fingers going crazy. Everywhere I look I see 90% of doctrine of what I believe, but then some parts being dubious. Again, I am not affiliated with any denomination, and think the two party hustle of politics have created divisions and sects in the man made church. Look at I Corinthians 1:10! If someone asked me where to go for a group of real believers that are about the love of God, where do I send them? I have lost family, friends, and jobs from being Christian. I am now homeless, but find it comforting to be honest.

I trust God's Word. My idea to find a church is silly because I am the church by believing in Jesus as the Messiah. I will continue to read the suggested material, but really just rely on God's Word. I have have given up on man's interpretations.

[Brian McDonald]

Terry I second what Jason says. Check out the “Site-map” section for the truth on these matters and more. I came from a Roman catholic background, they believe in the trinity god. I have also studied some with the Jehovah Witnesses (JW) and as you may know, they say Jesus is Michael the archangel. When I put it to them that Jesus was God in the flesh they told me I just didn't understand the scriptures. The drama is with them and with all of the man-made religions. It is they who make God a lair and teach others like wise.

In Isaiah 43 and other places in the scriptures, God said He is the only saviour, the only Redeemer the "ONE" and "ONLY" God. Why would God say He would be the only Saviour and Redeemer and then send Michael the archangel or anyone else in His place, is God a lair? They, like the catholic church and her daughters certainly seem to think so.

Brian.

[Sara V Schmidt]

Terry's reply above required moderation, which has been approved. For some reason, when it was approved, no notification e-mail went out to all, so you could see that Terry responded. Here it is:

http://forum.thepathoftruth.com/viewtop ... t=154#p483" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Jason C Lee]

Hi Terry,

"I hear you, but still find Galations 1:1 still points at God the Father raising up Jesus Christ. And who is Jesus Christ praying to in John 17?"

I do believe this and your other questions are answered in the writings that I provided, so please do continue to read; even a couple of times over if necessary. Aside from that, what do you make of the Scriptural substance that I did provide?

"I still hold to my analogy. When I speak words, the words ARE me. You can say there is Terry's words and there is Terry himself. The beauty of God's Word becoming flesh is profound. God's Word created everything. And yet God is Spirit."

I never suggested that your analogy was wrong. I only set out to put the reality of it in the simplest terms that I knew how to; and know that God is both Spirit and flesh.

"I think what is bothering me in general is the fighting and divisions made. I find believers splitting hairs on issues and then false prophet/teacher fingers going crazy. Everywhere I look I see 90% of doctrine of what I believe, but then some parts being dubious."

The truth is that division and 'fighting' or, rather, exposing darkness and falsehood is necessary. We list false teachers because they are indeed false and are not sent of God to teach. We do so by His authority and Biblical substance. There is wheat and then there are tares, Terry, and why wouldn't the Lord want His people to know what is truth from error?

Are you so sure to assume that those you refer to as 'believers' are really believers? Have you found fault with our posting of false teachers? If so, let us know why and be specific.

About doctrine....it doesn't matter so much what you believe or want to believe but what the Lord says we should believe and do. We need to cast aside our personal opinions, interpretations, understanding, assumptions and believe God; which is possible only by His grace. Obeying Him and taking up our cross is the only way and that's often the line drawn when it comes to wheat and tares.

"If someone asked me where to go for a group of real believers that are about the love of God, where do I send them? I have lost family, friends, and jobs from being Christian. I am now homeless, but find it comforting to be honest."

Why not send them here? Don't get me wrong, we're not looking for initiates or numbers but nobody is beyond the Lord's reach. I believe Victor and Paul would agree that we welcome those who would come with questions and an eagerness for Truth and Reality. I know you've had questions but, if you've found fault with us, you haven't specified.

"I trust God's Word. My idea to find a church is silly because I am the church by believing in Jesus as the Messiah. I will continue to read the suggested material, but really just rely on God's Word. I have have given up on man's interpretations."

If you trust God's Word, then you will know that we have been sent of Him and that what Victor and Paul teach is true:

"We are of God. He who knows God hears us. The one who is not of God does not hear us. From this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error" (1 John 4:6 MKJV).

Speaking of interpretations, does that include forsaking your own interpretation? It seems to me that you're genuinely looking for answers, which is good, but that you also fall back on your own understanding of things when you come across something that counters your doctrine. Am I wrong?

Here is some more valuable and worthy material:

http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings ... ptures.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings ... church.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.thepathoftruth.com/falsehood ... a-cult.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Paul Cohen]

Terry, as others have said, you’re mistaken in what we preach and need to read the writings on our site. All of your questions are answered there, so be patient and thorough.

But you’re mistaken on some key elements that I should answer now, for your benefit and others.

We’re not fighting with brothers in the Lord. We’re responding to idolaters who have been slaughtering true believers in Christ for millennia now. Aren't you aware of The Fruit of Cain Multiplied: The Murderer John Calvin?

The tables have been turned on these criminals who call themselves “Christian.”

We aren’t “splitting hairs,” either, but are preaching the One True God, the Lord Jesus Christ, putting away vile pretender gods that come in His Name. Be sure to also read The Gospel According to Trinitarians.

[Victor Hafichuk]

Hi Terry,

You ask Who raised Jesus from the dead. What do you think of this?:

"Jesus answered and said to them, Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up. Then the Jews said, This temple was forty-six years building, and will you rear it up in three days? But He spoke of the temple of His body" (John 2:19-21 MKJV).

[Victor Hafichuk]

Perhaps this may help as well?:

Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I might take it up again.
(John 10:17 MKJV)

[Victor Hafichuk]

Terry, you say:

"I will continue to read the suggested material, but really just rely on God's Word. I have have given up on man's interpretations."

Are not men interpreting God's Word? You say you've given up on man's interpretations. Will you rely on your own interpretation? Are you not a man? How will you know the difference between your interpretation and what is true? Do not many men claim to receive God's interpretation or inspiration for what His Word means? How then shall you know what is true?

[Darrell Kane]

Hi Terry, I would say ask the Father to reveal Himself to you.I understand more things that use to confuse me because I have had more of the Father revealed to me through His servants Victor and Paul ,some while riding down the road. We can't understand things of the Spirit with our carnal mind,our eyes have to be open by the Lord.
(Luke 24:31) And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

( Luke 24:32) And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

[Dena M Dahl]

I trust God's Word. My idea to find a church is silly because I am the church by believing in Jesus as the Messiah. I will continue to read the suggested material, but really just rely on God's Word. I have have given up on man's interpretations.

Hi Terry,

Are you aware that it is the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Word and not the Bible?

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
(John 1:1-4 MKJV)

You need to go beyond the Bible, to the One of whom the Scriptures testify:

You search the Scriptures, for you think in them you have everlasting life. And they are the ones witnessing concerning Me. And you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
(John 5:39-40 LITV)

Dena