God's way
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Victor Hafichuk
- Posts: 749
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:07 am
Re: God's way
Hi Brad,
Perhaps it won't be necessary after my reply, but if it is, could you possibly find Crouch's statement, in context, and post it? It's not enough to comment on hearsay or statements people made or may have made. Speculation and words out of context can cause confusion and harm and usually do. In any case, they don't directly serve the Truth of God.
However, let those alleged words of Crouch you report serve for good indirectly. I have some things to say about them as they stand:
If Paul Crouch said he "was given 40 years by the Lord to do the work he was assigned to do," I don't believe him - not that I would attribute anything to that man as of God. One will be hard-pressed to give an example of where God ever gave a deadline in the Scriptures to any prophet or apostle (true or false) He sent forth to speak in His Name. It doesn't happen.
For one reason, if it's a vessel of honor God is sending, it is God and not the vessel He appoints to do the work, so there's no need for a deadline. To give a man a deadline is to attribute righteousness to the man. The vessels containing the glory of God are ever earthy and never worthy, as the Scriptures declare:
"But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us" (2 Corinthians 4:7 MKJV).
Peterson's The Message puts it in an interesting way in the vernacular:
"If you only look at us, you might well miss the brightness. We carry this precious Message around in the unadorned clay pots of our ordinary lives. That's to prevent anyone from confusing God's incomparable power with us" (2 Corinthians 4:7 MSG).
If Paul Crouch did make that claim, and I can well believe he could or would, he bears witness to himself and not the Lord Jesus Christ. Knowing what the Lord has revealed to us of Crouch, we know he's a charlatan, a scoundrel. He has nothing to do with the Lord Jesus Christ except that he grossly misrepresents Him, blasphemes, and causes many others to blaspheme His Holy Name.
It seems by your words you might believe Crouch is a servant of God for evil ("Who knows His ways! All I know, He uses both good and evil to implement His plans"). If so, God doesn't speak thus to messengers of evil and He doesn't give them to advertise to men what they're assigned to do. Again, I find no evidence of such things supported in Scripture.
Now, as you may know, here's what the Lord has to say of TBN, Crouch and Bakker's baby:
Revelation 18:1-3 MKJV
(1) And after these things I saw another angel come down from Heaven, having great authority. And the earth was lighted up from his glory.
(2) And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great has fallen, has fallen! And it has become the dwelling-place of demons, and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a cage of every unclean bird which has been hated,
(3) because of the wine of the anger of her fornication which all the nations have drunk. And the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her. And the merchants of the earth became rich from the power of her luxury.
And if anyone supports TBN and believes the late Crouch, that he was sent of God, here's what the Lord has to say to them, IF they are His people:
"And I heard another voice from Heaven, saying, Come out of her, My people, that you may not be partakers of her sins, and that you may not receive of her plagues. For her sins joined together, even up to Heaven, and God has remembered her unjust deeds" (Revelation 18:4-5 MKJV).
By the way, Oral Roberts was another man that made such outrageous claims, like the Lord was going to take him if he didn't soon scrape up several millions for his hospital. There are many such men who make such claims to extract money from the gullible masses.
If I've misinterpreted what you're saying, Brad, let me know and we'll address any error on my part.
Perhaps it won't be necessary after my reply, but if it is, could you possibly find Crouch's statement, in context, and post it? It's not enough to comment on hearsay or statements people made or may have made. Speculation and words out of context can cause confusion and harm and usually do. In any case, they don't directly serve the Truth of God.
However, let those alleged words of Crouch you report serve for good indirectly. I have some things to say about them as they stand:
If Paul Crouch said he "was given 40 years by the Lord to do the work he was assigned to do," I don't believe him - not that I would attribute anything to that man as of God. One will be hard-pressed to give an example of where God ever gave a deadline in the Scriptures to any prophet or apostle (true or false) He sent forth to speak in His Name. It doesn't happen.
For one reason, if it's a vessel of honor God is sending, it is God and not the vessel He appoints to do the work, so there's no need for a deadline. To give a man a deadline is to attribute righteousness to the man. The vessels containing the glory of God are ever earthy and never worthy, as the Scriptures declare:
"But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us" (2 Corinthians 4:7 MKJV).
Peterson's The Message puts it in an interesting way in the vernacular:
"If you only look at us, you might well miss the brightness. We carry this precious Message around in the unadorned clay pots of our ordinary lives. That's to prevent anyone from confusing God's incomparable power with us" (2 Corinthians 4:7 MSG).
If Paul Crouch did make that claim, and I can well believe he could or would, he bears witness to himself and not the Lord Jesus Christ. Knowing what the Lord has revealed to us of Crouch, we know he's a charlatan, a scoundrel. He has nothing to do with the Lord Jesus Christ except that he grossly misrepresents Him, blasphemes, and causes many others to blaspheme His Holy Name.
It seems by your words you might believe Crouch is a servant of God for evil ("Who knows His ways! All I know, He uses both good and evil to implement His plans"). If so, God doesn't speak thus to messengers of evil and He doesn't give them to advertise to men what they're assigned to do. Again, I find no evidence of such things supported in Scripture.
Now, as you may know, here's what the Lord has to say of TBN, Crouch and Bakker's baby:
Revelation 18:1-3 MKJV
(1) And after these things I saw another angel come down from Heaven, having great authority. And the earth was lighted up from his glory.
(2) And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great has fallen, has fallen! And it has become the dwelling-place of demons, and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a cage of every unclean bird which has been hated,
(3) because of the wine of the anger of her fornication which all the nations have drunk. And the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her. And the merchants of the earth became rich from the power of her luxury.
And if anyone supports TBN and believes the late Crouch, that he was sent of God, here's what the Lord has to say to them, IF they are His people:
"And I heard another voice from Heaven, saying, Come out of her, My people, that you may not be partakers of her sins, and that you may not receive of her plagues. For her sins joined together, even up to Heaven, and God has remembered her unjust deeds" (Revelation 18:4-5 MKJV).
By the way, Oral Roberts was another man that made such outrageous claims, like the Lord was going to take him if he didn't soon scrape up several millions for his hospital. There are many such men who make such claims to extract money from the gullible masses.
If I've misinterpreted what you're saying, Brad, let me know and we'll address any error on my part.
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Paul Cohen
Re: God's way
Yes, this is an occasion for good teaching and instruction in the Word of God.
Just to be clear to everyone, the author of this letter isn't Brad Gifford or Bradley Matthews.
Would the author be willing to introduce himself here? It could be helpful, Brad, and we'd certainly like to hear more about you and your spiritual status.
Just to be clear to everyone, the author of this letter isn't Brad Gifford or Bradley Matthews.
Would the author be willing to introduce himself here? It could be helpful, Brad, and we'd certainly like to hear more about you and your spiritual status.
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Brad
Re: God's way
Good day. The 40 years is my observation and not something quoted by The Crouches.
God uses both good evil to fulfill His will, just look through history. How many assassination attempts were there on Hiter's life? God plan was to show how man's plans will always lead to failure. God's plan was that no man or nation would get the credit of putting him (Hitler) to death.
If you look at Jesus life, 18 years as a man in preparation (if we use we the Jewish custom of when a boy is deemed to be a man) and 3 years in active ministry. If we divide by 3 we get a fraction of 6 (representing man) and + 1 = 7 (representing God)
I am waiting on the Lord, for His will to be done.
God's word spoken by himself manifested in human form, 'Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done, on earth as it is in heaven '
I will write my full testimony, God willing, that He leads me to do so.
I ask that you pray for me.
Brad
God uses both good evil to fulfill His will, just look through history. How many assassination attempts were there on Hiter's life? God plan was to show how man's plans will always lead to failure. God's plan was that no man or nation would get the credit of putting him (Hitler) to death.
If you look at Jesus life, 18 years as a man in preparation (if we use we the Jewish custom of when a boy is deemed to be a man) and 3 years in active ministry. If we divide by 3 we get a fraction of 6 (representing man) and + 1 = 7 (representing God)
I am waiting on the Lord, for His will to be done.
God's word spoken by himself manifested in human form, 'Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done, on earth as it is in heaven '
I will write my full testimony, God willing, that He leads me to do so.
I ask that you pray for me.
Brad
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Victor Hafichuk
- Posts: 749
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:07 am
Re: God's way
Thanks for your explanation, Brad. It's true that all things, both good and evil are appointed and established from above. The Kingdom of God reigns supreme.
Your note reminds me of The Purpose of Evil: http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings ... f-evil.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
I'm sure we'd all like to hear your testimony. It's always a pleasure to hear what the Lord is doing in someone's life.
Your note reminds me of The Purpose of Evil: http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings ... f-evil.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
I'm sure we'd all like to hear your testimony. It's always a pleasure to hear what the Lord is doing in someone's life.
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Brad
Re: God's way
Hi Victor
I read your link. The paragraph within quoted below
'Job had only known his own righteousness, and he walked in it wholeheartedly. Evil was brought upon him, by God’s direction, through Satan, God’s servant for evil, to lead Job to a higher level, to another righteousness, the only one of true value, God’s righteousness.'
I think you could even expand on this for the reader. God asked the first question to Satan. Firstly stating He is directing the conversation, and secondly putting the question out there for which He knew what the reply of the 'Accuser'' would be. Jesus says so in John 10:10.
Put in another way, God was giving Satan an instruction, though from Satans view point he sees himself as initiating the thought.
Who then do you see us more evil in the eyes of God? Murders, theives etc or self righteous people? From what we see from Jesus it was definitely the latter.
I will like to know how Gods word leads you to interpret Isaiah 14:12.
Regards
Brad
I read your link. The paragraph within quoted below
'Job had only known his own righteousness, and he walked in it wholeheartedly. Evil was brought upon him, by God’s direction, through Satan, God’s servant for evil, to lead Job to a higher level, to another righteousness, the only one of true value, God’s righteousness.'
I think you could even expand on this for the reader. God asked the first question to Satan. Firstly stating He is directing the conversation, and secondly putting the question out there for which He knew what the reply of the 'Accuser'' would be. Jesus says so in John 10:10.
Put in another way, God was giving Satan an instruction, though from Satans view point he sees himself as initiating the thought.
Who then do you see us more evil in the eyes of God? Murders, theives etc or self righteous people? From what we see from Jesus it was definitely the latter.
I will like to know how Gods word leads you to interpret Isaiah 14:12.
Regards
Brad
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Brad
Re: God's way
Hi Victor
You earlier reply
"And if anyone supports TBN and believes the late Crouch, that he was sent of God, here's what the Lord has to say to them, IF they are His people:"
Without being pedantic, He (Paul Crouch) would have had to be sent of God, however, to do either, Good or Evil.
Regardless whether we side with Good or Evil, wouldn't you say he did it with vigor and with a great deal of God ordained success. Exactly in the same way Satan did with Job.
I know you have been called to 'expose' good from evil, however, I am interested in your reply to my last two posts
You earlier reply
"And if anyone supports TBN and believes the late Crouch, that he was sent of God, here's what the Lord has to say to them, IF they are His people:"
Without being pedantic, He (Paul Crouch) would have had to be sent of God, however, to do either, Good or Evil.
Regardless whether we side with Good or Evil, wouldn't you say he did it with vigor and with a great deal of God ordained success. Exactly in the same way Satan did with Job.
I know you have been called to 'expose' good from evil, however, I am interested in your reply to my last two posts
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Victor Hafichuk
- Posts: 749
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:07 am
Re: God's way
Brad, there are those God sends and those whom He says run when He hasn't sent them. Crouch wasn't sent. That goes for all such as he.
Jeremiah 27:13-15 MKJV
(13) Why will you die, you and your people, by the sword, by the famine, and by the plague, as Jehovah has spoken against the nation that will not serve the king of Babylon?
(14) Therefore do not listen to the words of the prophets who speak to you, saying, You shall not serve the king of Babylon. For they prophesy a lie to you.
(15) For I have not sent them, says the LORD; yet they prophesy a lie in My name, so that I might drive you out, and that you might perish, you and the prophets who prophesy to you.
Jeremiah 29:8-9 MKJV
(8) For so says the LORD of Hosts, the God of Israel: Do not let your prophets and your fortune-tellers in your midst deceive you, nor listen to your dreams which you dream.
(9) For they prophesy falsely to you in My name; I have not sent them, says the LORD.
Ezekiel 13:4-10 MKJV
(4) O Israel, your prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.
(5) You have not gone up into the breaks, nor built the wall for the house of Israel, that it might stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.
(6) They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, the LORD says. And the LORD has not sent them; but they hoped to confirm their word.
(7) Did you not see a vain vision, and speak a lying divination? Yet you say, the LORD says; although I have not spoken?
(8) Therefore so says the Lord God: Because you have spoken vanity and seen a lie, therefore, behold, I am against you, says the Lord God.
(9) And My hand shall be against the prophets who see vanity and who divine a lie. They shall not be in the council of My people, nor shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, nor shall they enter into the land of Israel. And you shall know that I am the Lord God.
(10) Because, even because they made My people go astray, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and he builds a wall, and lo, others daubed it with lime.
As for Isaiah 14:12, read: http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings ... -satan.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Jeremiah 27:13-15 MKJV
(13) Why will you die, you and your people, by the sword, by the famine, and by the plague, as Jehovah has spoken against the nation that will not serve the king of Babylon?
(14) Therefore do not listen to the words of the prophets who speak to you, saying, You shall not serve the king of Babylon. For they prophesy a lie to you.
(15) For I have not sent them, says the LORD; yet they prophesy a lie in My name, so that I might drive you out, and that you might perish, you and the prophets who prophesy to you.
Jeremiah 29:8-9 MKJV
(8) For so says the LORD of Hosts, the God of Israel: Do not let your prophets and your fortune-tellers in your midst deceive you, nor listen to your dreams which you dream.
(9) For they prophesy falsely to you in My name; I have not sent them, says the LORD.
Ezekiel 13:4-10 MKJV
(4) O Israel, your prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.
(5) You have not gone up into the breaks, nor built the wall for the house of Israel, that it might stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.
(6) They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, the LORD says. And the LORD has not sent them; but they hoped to confirm their word.
(7) Did you not see a vain vision, and speak a lying divination? Yet you say, the LORD says; although I have not spoken?
(8) Therefore so says the Lord God: Because you have spoken vanity and seen a lie, therefore, behold, I am against you, says the Lord God.
(9) And My hand shall be against the prophets who see vanity and who divine a lie. They shall not be in the council of My people, nor shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, nor shall they enter into the land of Israel. And you shall know that I am the Lord God.
(10) Because, even because they made My people go astray, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and he builds a wall, and lo, others daubed it with lime.
As for Isaiah 14:12, read: http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings ... -satan.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;