Good Sabbath! I thought that perhaps some of you might be rather interested in what’s going on in the links below. Some may even have something to say. They are people having left church affiliations and supposedly looking for something new, something true? Check it out and see what the Lord gives you.
http://www.churchplants.com/articles/87 ... ovitz.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://billmuehlenberg.com/2014/12/26/o ... ng-church/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Blog Talk for Your Perusal and Response, Lord Willing
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Victor Hafichuk
- Posts: 749
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:07 am
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William Woeger
Re: Blog Talk for Your Perusal and Response, Lord Willing
I red John's article. I red most of the comments. I went to "The Table".
I went to John's other site, patreon.com where you can learn much more about John and his motive with these blogs. John has some ambitions for himself, he has some 'milestones' to reach.
One of John's milestones - if he makes it up to $5k a month - he wants to film a web series called "Food Evangelist". He says, "We'll have fun, honest conversations about life and faith, over some really amazing food, in mom-and-pop eateries all over the Southeast."
John's site isn't for those who are hungry for Jesus. Discontent people will be served soup sandwich spilled on "the table".
As far as the other site, which belongs to Bill. Seems the people there have a lot more true things to say about the church, but aren't ready to leave. They seem to want to 'Buff' the church.
I went to John's other site, patreon.com where you can learn much more about John and his motive with these blogs. John has some ambitions for himself, he has some 'milestones' to reach.
One of John's milestones - if he makes it up to $5k a month - he wants to film a web series called "Food Evangelist". He says, "We'll have fun, honest conversations about life and faith, over some really amazing food, in mom-and-pop eateries all over the Southeast."
John's site isn't for those who are hungry for Jesus. Discontent people will be served soup sandwich spilled on "the table".
As far as the other site, which belongs to Bill. Seems the people there have a lot more true things to say about the church, but aren't ready to leave. They seem to want to 'Buff' the church.
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Victor Hafichuk
- Posts: 749
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:07 am
Re: Blog Talk for Your Perusal and Response, Lord Willing
Many are disgruntled with their fellowships, not because they want THE Truth, but because they want THEIR truth. Yet, we speak what we know and plant the seeds until the end of day.
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Beryl Knipe
Re: Blog Talk for Your Perusal and Response, Lord Willing
Hi all,
I red the entire article and a lot of the comments (up until now) are 907! I haven't red all the comments. I appreciate Simon's responses and the links he shared and I appreciate and understand Victor's comments, as well.
I noticed, before the "thread" of comments continued, not one person had anything to say on any of the links offered by V & S.
I simply added one piece of Scripture to the thread:
Acts 17:24 ""God (Jesus Christ) Who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands."
I don't know whether anyone - who commented - actually changed their minds on "their own opinions."
I wonder whether someone - who's been attending their church for years and years and years - would actually take cognisance of the article and "leave" their brand of church? I somehow doubt it.
Thank you for sharing this Blog.
Beryl.
I red the entire article and a lot of the comments (up until now) are 907! I haven't red all the comments. I appreciate Simon's responses and the links he shared and I appreciate and understand Victor's comments, as well.
I noticed, before the "thread" of comments continued, not one person had anything to say on any of the links offered by V & S.
I simply added one piece of Scripture to the thread:
Acts 17:24 ""God (Jesus Christ) Who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands."
I don't know whether anyone - who commented - actually changed their minds on "their own opinions."
I wonder whether someone - who's been attending their church for years and years and years - would actually take cognisance of the article and "leave" their brand of church? I somehow doubt it.
Thank you for sharing this Blog.
Beryl.
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Darrell Kane
Re: Blog Talk for Your Perusal and Response, Lord Willing
Amen to all said, The church created by men has a lot of errors but some on the blog are not leaving because they want the truth. A lot of them have opinions about what the truth is but have no interest in knowing it either, at least for now.
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Paul Cohen
Re: Blog Talk for Your Perusal and Response, Lord Willing
I made some comments and got into a conversation with one lady at John's blog, as you'll see below:
http://billmuehlenberg.com/2014/12/26/o ... ent-360101" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What are you looking for, a church to attend or the Lord Jesus Christ? They are two very different things. When I was searching for Him, the Truth, I found Him by His grace as promised. I was home, and needed search no more, praise God! I learned that Hebrews 10:25, the assembling of OURselves together, applied to other like recipients of His grace with whom He gathered me. It was His work – the Lord is the Assembler of His body, and always has been. His ways aren’t men’s ways. That’s why He calls His people out of men’s systems to walk with Him and worship Him in spirit and in truth. See http://thepathoftruth.com/teachings/cas ... urches.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
http://www.churchplants.com/articles/87 ... itz.html/3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
PaulBCohen . Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan
You're so right in this last sentence, Alethea. I have found our Creator, the Lord Jesus Christ, to be faithful in providing what we need. As a young man of 23 moved to Israel, and in the middle of the Negev desert, He sent someone to speak to me about His will for my life and the path I needed to walk on. He also gave me the grace to obey. What a God! Please read my story, http://thepathoftruth.com/test..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, and help yourself to the bountiful good food He's given us at this site.
PaulBCohen . Thomas Everroad
There is religion, Thomas, and there is the Truth. Jesus Christ is the Truth, not a religion. With religion you get to keep your life, but with Jesus Christ, you will lose it. Then death (not just physical, but the loss of all things in this life) no longer threatens you because you are crucified with Him and truly free. "Therefore if the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed" (John 8:36 MKJV). More on His ways at http://www.ThePathofTruth.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; .
PaulBCohen . Josh Fields
One important thing to add here, Josh. If the Lord or His people do hurt you, it's only because they speak the truth and that can be painful. "Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful" (Proverbs 27:6 KJV). We have all needed to be hurt for the right reason, and God lets us know in advance what must be. "For whom the Lord loves He chastens, and He scourges every son whom He receives. If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons, for what son is he whom the father does not chasten?" (Hebrews 12:6-7 MKJV)
Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan PaulBCohen .
And, where do you find the 'truth', Paul? The book that SAYS it's true? The Koran says it's true, as well.
PaulBCohen . Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan
Jesus Christ is the Truth, Alethea. He is alive, not the Bible, although He inspired it. I only know this because He revealed Himself to me, and I recognized His voice in the Bible. Without Him, all are dead in their sins and unbelief. I was certainly there and He, not a book, brought me out of death and hell.
Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan PaulBCohen .
No thanks, Paul. I've read more books about the 'truth' than you probably have or even know about.
NO ONE - not you, me, Pat Robertson, any pastor, theologian, professor, roadside evangelist, street corner bible thumper, etc. KNOWS the truth. We only know what we believe to be true. To think that we actually KNOW what's going on, is pure arrogance.
Help yourself to the peace the Buddha has given us!
p.s. Do you realize that you say you've seen someone who spoke to you about your path, but others in similar situations, are told what goddess, or Ganesha, or Mithra, or Zoroaster wants them to do? It's a matter of preconceived ideas of what is real, correct and desirable.
PaulBCohen . Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan
Of course we can know the truth, Alethea, we were created by Him and made in His image! And it was Him, Jesus Christ, Who answered me, not Ganesha or Mithra or Zoroaster or Buddha. It was no "preconceived idea of what is real, correct and desirable" that gave me life and understanding. It was those things that had left me dead and without hope. The proof of Jesus Christ is that He raises the dead, as with me.
Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan PaulBCohen .
I was terminally ill with cancer, Paul. I was not and am not dead. Far from it. People will believe whatever gives them the strength and the fortitude to fight. If that was 'His' voice for you... cool! It was a Hindu hearing the voice of Lakshmi that gave him the will to fight. It was the power of Quan Yin who saved the Buddhist from death. Do you not see that you BELIEVE it was your god who saved you? But, your god is not the only 'saving' or 'healing' god? The bible is not the only 'saving' or 'healing' literature that exists? You weren't in 'hell', Paul. You were sick and were afraid that you would be eternally punished in some imaginary 'lake of fire' for any misstep you had ever taken. You have absolutely no idea about the truth, Paul. Neither do I or anyone else living on this earth.
PaulBCohen . Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan
Did you read my story, Alethea? Please do -http://thepathoftruth.com/test..., You'll see I wasn't scared of eternal punishment, something I wasn't taught and didn't believe, but was in great turmoil because of the wrong turn I took. I asked Jesus Christ to settle the matter for me and He did. You can't argue with that, at least not successfully. You need to carefully consider what you're hearing because you can't rightly judge what you don't listen to.
"Then Jesus said to the Jews who believed on Him, If you continue in My Word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:31-32 MKJV).
Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan PaulBCohen
Sorry, Paul. But, I believe that man has attempted to make god in HIS image.... give god a gender, decide that god looks like a Anglo-Saxon, interpret 'god's' words (sorry, I'm smarter than that) as they WISH them to be. If you believe it, Paul - then good on you. But, that you were inspired is no proof... far from it. You weren't answered by Zoroaster because you didn't KNOW about Zoroaster. God is who you want god to be. Jesus is he who didn't come back during the apostle's time as he said he would. Go for it, Paul. But, don't expect everyone else to buy your specific brand of supernatural mythology. You can profess all you wish that you KNOW the truth, but if you were honest, you would KNOW that it is your ' belief'. Hey, why don't you ask JC to regrow the arm of a child who suffered a tractor accident? hmmmm.
PaulBCohen . Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan
Your theory doesn't hold up here, Alethea. You say I made God in my image, basically conjuring Him up using terms and ideas I was familiar with.
I was familiar with many so-called gods when the Lord called me. Why didn't I hear from Allah or Krishna or Zeus, for examples? I had been searching and reading different books other than the Bible. So it wasn't being exposed to things about Christ. In fact, it was unnatural for me to look to Him because as a Jew, confessing Christ would be denying my background and standing in life. It was the last thing I was looking to do. It was so remote from my mind, I didn't even know I could do it!
I also didn't decide to believe in Christ. I simply asked God to make the truth known to me and He drew me to Himself and revealed His identity. He then answered me on many things, not just one, to this very day 37 years later and it hasn't been my imagination. My imagination doesn't control external things and events. Imagination doesn't totally revolutionize one's life, as mine was changed.
And I have seen Him do the same with others. We have agreement because we have experienced the same Truth, without man's intervention or imagination.
I haven't seen anyone else changed by any of the other gods as Christ changes, not even close. He is alive, Alethea, and I know Him. Because I have a relationship with Him, I don't test His power as you suggest, but confer with Him about His will. That is the best and only way for all.
You will eventually see how He works all things for good, including the child who lost his arm and all other disasters, which men, in their rebellion, have sown for. He promises.
http://billmuehlenberg.com/2014/12/26/o ... ent-360101" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What are you looking for, a church to attend or the Lord Jesus Christ? They are two very different things. When I was searching for Him, the Truth, I found Him by His grace as promised. I was home, and needed search no more, praise God! I learned that Hebrews 10:25, the assembling of OURselves together, applied to other like recipients of His grace with whom He gathered me. It was His work – the Lord is the Assembler of His body, and always has been. His ways aren’t men’s ways. That’s why He calls His people out of men’s systems to walk with Him and worship Him in spirit and in truth. See http://thepathoftruth.com/teachings/cas ... urches.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
http://www.churchplants.com/articles/87 ... itz.html/3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
PaulBCohen . Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan
You're so right in this last sentence, Alethea. I have found our Creator, the Lord Jesus Christ, to be faithful in providing what we need. As a young man of 23 moved to Israel, and in the middle of the Negev desert, He sent someone to speak to me about His will for my life and the path I needed to walk on. He also gave me the grace to obey. What a God! Please read my story, http://thepathoftruth.com/test..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, and help yourself to the bountiful good food He's given us at this site.
PaulBCohen . Thomas Everroad
There is religion, Thomas, and there is the Truth. Jesus Christ is the Truth, not a religion. With religion you get to keep your life, but with Jesus Christ, you will lose it. Then death (not just physical, but the loss of all things in this life) no longer threatens you because you are crucified with Him and truly free. "Therefore if the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed" (John 8:36 MKJV). More on His ways at http://www.ThePathofTruth.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; .
PaulBCohen . Josh Fields
One important thing to add here, Josh. If the Lord or His people do hurt you, it's only because they speak the truth and that can be painful. "Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful" (Proverbs 27:6 KJV). We have all needed to be hurt for the right reason, and God lets us know in advance what must be. "For whom the Lord loves He chastens, and He scourges every son whom He receives. If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons, for what son is he whom the father does not chasten?" (Hebrews 12:6-7 MKJV)
Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan PaulBCohen .
And, where do you find the 'truth', Paul? The book that SAYS it's true? The Koran says it's true, as well.
PaulBCohen . Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan
Jesus Christ is the Truth, Alethea. He is alive, not the Bible, although He inspired it. I only know this because He revealed Himself to me, and I recognized His voice in the Bible. Without Him, all are dead in their sins and unbelief. I was certainly there and He, not a book, brought me out of death and hell.
Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan PaulBCohen .
No thanks, Paul. I've read more books about the 'truth' than you probably have or even know about.
NO ONE - not you, me, Pat Robertson, any pastor, theologian, professor, roadside evangelist, street corner bible thumper, etc. KNOWS the truth. We only know what we believe to be true. To think that we actually KNOW what's going on, is pure arrogance.
Help yourself to the peace the Buddha has given us!
p.s. Do you realize that you say you've seen someone who spoke to you about your path, but others in similar situations, are told what goddess, or Ganesha, or Mithra, or Zoroaster wants them to do? It's a matter of preconceived ideas of what is real, correct and desirable.
PaulBCohen . Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan
Of course we can know the truth, Alethea, we were created by Him and made in His image! And it was Him, Jesus Christ, Who answered me, not Ganesha or Mithra or Zoroaster or Buddha. It was no "preconceived idea of what is real, correct and desirable" that gave me life and understanding. It was those things that had left me dead and without hope. The proof of Jesus Christ is that He raises the dead, as with me.
Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan PaulBCohen .
I was terminally ill with cancer, Paul. I was not and am not dead. Far from it. People will believe whatever gives them the strength and the fortitude to fight. If that was 'His' voice for you... cool! It was a Hindu hearing the voice of Lakshmi that gave him the will to fight. It was the power of Quan Yin who saved the Buddhist from death. Do you not see that you BELIEVE it was your god who saved you? But, your god is not the only 'saving' or 'healing' god? The bible is not the only 'saving' or 'healing' literature that exists? You weren't in 'hell', Paul. You were sick and were afraid that you would be eternally punished in some imaginary 'lake of fire' for any misstep you had ever taken. You have absolutely no idea about the truth, Paul. Neither do I or anyone else living on this earth.
PaulBCohen . Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan
Did you read my story, Alethea? Please do -http://thepathoftruth.com/test..., You'll see I wasn't scared of eternal punishment, something I wasn't taught and didn't believe, but was in great turmoil because of the wrong turn I took. I asked Jesus Christ to settle the matter for me and He did. You can't argue with that, at least not successfully. You need to carefully consider what you're hearing because you can't rightly judge what you don't listen to.
"Then Jesus said to the Jews who believed on Him, If you continue in My Word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:31-32 MKJV).
Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan PaulBCohen
Sorry, Paul. But, I believe that man has attempted to make god in HIS image.... give god a gender, decide that god looks like a Anglo-Saxon, interpret 'god's' words (sorry, I'm smarter than that) as they WISH them to be. If you believe it, Paul - then good on you. But, that you were inspired is no proof... far from it. You weren't answered by Zoroaster because you didn't KNOW about Zoroaster. God is who you want god to be. Jesus is he who didn't come back during the apostle's time as he said he would. Go for it, Paul. But, don't expect everyone else to buy your specific brand of supernatural mythology. You can profess all you wish that you KNOW the truth, but if you were honest, you would KNOW that it is your ' belief'. Hey, why don't you ask JC to regrow the arm of a child who suffered a tractor accident? hmmmm.
PaulBCohen . Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan
Your theory doesn't hold up here, Alethea. You say I made God in my image, basically conjuring Him up using terms and ideas I was familiar with.
I was familiar with many so-called gods when the Lord called me. Why didn't I hear from Allah or Krishna or Zeus, for examples? I had been searching and reading different books other than the Bible. So it wasn't being exposed to things about Christ. In fact, it was unnatural for me to look to Him because as a Jew, confessing Christ would be denying my background and standing in life. It was the last thing I was looking to do. It was so remote from my mind, I didn't even know I could do it!
I also didn't decide to believe in Christ. I simply asked God to make the truth known to me and He drew me to Himself and revealed His identity. He then answered me on many things, not just one, to this very day 37 years later and it hasn't been my imagination. My imagination doesn't control external things and events. Imagination doesn't totally revolutionize one's life, as mine was changed.
And I have seen Him do the same with others. We have agreement because we have experienced the same Truth, without man's intervention or imagination.
I haven't seen anyone else changed by any of the other gods as Christ changes, not even close. He is alive, Alethea, and I know Him. Because I have a relationship with Him, I don't test His power as you suggest, but confer with Him about His will. That is the best and only way for all.
You will eventually see how He works all things for good, including the child who lost his arm and all other disasters, which men, in their rebellion, have sown for. He promises.
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Victor Hafichuk
- Posts: 749
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:07 am
Re: Blog Talk for Your Perusal and Response, Lord Willing
Good answers.
Is the forum open to those arguing, like Alethea? Should it be?
How many at yesterday's meeting had any conversations with anyone at these blogs? I posted several statements with a few people but received no response thus far. It can takes, days, weeks, even months; besides, few of those reading respond.
Is the forum open to those arguing, like Alethea? Should it be?
How many at yesterday's meeting had any conversations with anyone at these blogs? I posted several statements with a few people but received no response thus far. It can takes, days, weeks, even months; besides, few of those reading respond.
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Brian McDonald
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:52 am
- Location: Ireland
Re: Blog Talk for Your Perusal and Response, Lord Willing
Not me,,,,,,yet
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Dan Lysthauge
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:08 am
- Location: Nebraska, North America
Re: Blog Talk for Your Perusal and Response, Lord Willing
I did read the comments but did not leave any.
Dan
Dan
Dan Lysthauge
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Eric Courtemanche
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:08 am
- Location: San Tan Valley, AZ
Re: Blog Talk for Your Perusal and Response, Lord Willing
I'm still reading the comments, but have not yet replied to anyone. I ended up at here, http://carm.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, somehow, and sent an email to them about their belief that God is a Trinity! I'm looking forward to sharing with some at the Dear Church site also.
Eric C.
Eric C.
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Edwin Romero
Re: Blog Talk for Your Perusal and Response, Lord Willing
I thought I needed to say some things to Alethea, and here's what I said and one reply so far:
Edwin: Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan • a day ago
According to all you say, Alethea, you KNOW the TRUTH. But then you also say IT cannot be known. Or you go a little farther and say both the truth and God are what we believe they are, yet you counter what others believe - contradictory!
My point is the TRUTH can be known, but so far, it is foreign to you and you are not open to knowing it, not even close. You have made up your mind, and it is your God-given right for now.
You seem to invite others to share in your agnosticism and are glad when they agree with you. If there is no absolute truth to be known by us, according to your thining, is that an absolute truth? Wouldn't you consider there's something else? I think not, for now...
Edwin Edwin • a day ago
Sorry, I meant, "according to your thinking..."
I'd like to add I see you assume because organized churches are wrong, and they are, it is impossible to find or receive the Truth from another Source. Isn't this true?
Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan Edwin • 18 hours ago
Edwin, please re-read my posts. Over and over I state that I do not know the truth, but I do know what I believe - just as everyone else who has posted. No one can know the truth about what happens after one dies... because they aren't dead and unless you BELIEVE that spirits can contact you, they can't tell you what happens. If all posters here were honest, they would admit that they have based their beliefs on what is in the bible and what they've been taught or whatever other method. But, they don't, and I don't, KNOW it to be true. That's why it's called 'faith' rather than 'accuracy'
What's wrong with thanking someone when they have the cajones to stand up and say, 'I don't believe this.'? As the Christians in ancient Rome would stand up and say, 'I don't believe in Apollo, I believe .... such and such', don't you think that other Christians would say thank you, or well said, or hooray, or something along those lines? Don't you agree with others and state so?
I've never invited anyone to share in my agnosticism. I've invited them to step out of the narrowness and learn about the world they live on. Just as those who have 'invited' me, mostly under the idea eternal punishment, to go back to church, believe THIS because it's true, you've made up your mind so you are lost, you just haven't searched enough and on and on. I've studied NUMEROUS faiths and religions... and I base my BELIEFS on what I've learned, what I've seen, evidence and rationality. I can tell you a bit about how gravity works, I've never actually 'seen' gravity, but I BELIEVE gravity to be real enough that I decline to stand under an anvil someone is holding up and is ready to let go of. I KNOW the TRUTH that it will be a mite ouchyI BELIEVE that Adam and Eve in the garden and 'original sin' is farcical and merely a way to frighten people into submission. I don't believe that Zeus ever existed. If you would choose to be rhetorical about absolute truth, we could go on for days. No thanks.
I BELIEVE and see plenty of evidence that you are stuck in the bible, "... unwilling to consider there's something else." If you started studying the world's religions, faiths, dogmas and tenets, do you BELIEVE god will see it as wicked? Stepping over the line thus endangering your soul? That you might receive the TRUTH from another source?
As far as religions go, I find, and see PLENTY of evidence, that there are similarities between them. For example:
Christianity... "You don't believe what I believe and what's in MY book, and what the TRUTH is, therefore you will not enjoy eternal life in heaven. You will be judged, die and be punished forever and ever! You will suffer for your heresy! You've been told and warned"
Islam... "You don't believe what I believe and what's in MY book and what the TRUTH is, therefore you will not enjoy paradise. You will die because I'm going save allah the trouble. You have been judged and will suffer for your heresy! You've been told and warned."
Edwin Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan • 2 minutes ago
Alethea, you mention some good points in your reasoning, and I agree; most people only believe what they have been told to believe. Would you consider that includes you, whether you were directly told or by books and other sources? I mean nobody comes with original ideas; you just grow into a certain way of thinking and believing, by reading and/or experiencing.
Now according to your definition of faith, you have faith in what you believe, since you acknowledge you don't know it to be TRUE, but you still believe it. But that is not faith; that's assumption, even as it is an assumption for you to say I only have my Bible.
I grew up hearing from the Bible, but as soon as I was in High School, I started to get interested in other subjects and philosophies, several teachings and doctrines of the world such as New Age, Induism, methaphysics, positive thinking, various mentalities and sects within Christianity, UFO's mysteries, etc.
All those things left me empty. I only felt there was something else, but I didn't know what it was. So I thought I needed to become a "true Christian," the type you describe, and it appeared to work for some time until I discovered it all was a farce, like you rightly have found out, although I'm not sure what experience you had. I even became "a pastor," thinking I had it made, but thank God, my eyes were opened to my falsehood, not by a book, but by the true Jesus Christ, Whom you think is a myth, and I have been set free from all religious systems who claim to have God with them.
Christianity as you know it has nothing to do with Jesus Christ, except they use His Name for their own gain. I know that first hand. The true Jesus, Who lives and communicates with whom He wants, has never planned to torment people eternally, not at all. Men, however, are bound to destruction, doing their own things, insisting in being independent of their Creator, thus reaping much torment, for the time being and then some.
But the torment of our race won't be forever; it has an end, at the appointed time for each person and generation. This world is not all there is. Of course, you won't believe what I say, but it doesn't matter. Like I told you, for now, you need to take the stand you have taken, but there will come a time for you to face your Creator, not simply for punishment or shame sake like you surmise, but for reality, final deliverance from your vanity as a mere mortal, and that will happen to each and everyone of us, thank God.
Edwin: Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan • a day ago
According to all you say, Alethea, you KNOW the TRUTH. But then you also say IT cannot be known. Or you go a little farther and say both the truth and God are what we believe they are, yet you counter what others believe - contradictory!
My point is the TRUTH can be known, but so far, it is foreign to you and you are not open to knowing it, not even close. You have made up your mind, and it is your God-given right for now.
You seem to invite others to share in your agnosticism and are glad when they agree with you. If there is no absolute truth to be known by us, according to your thining, is that an absolute truth? Wouldn't you consider there's something else? I think not, for now...
Edwin Edwin • a day ago
Sorry, I meant, "according to your thinking..."
I'd like to add I see you assume because organized churches are wrong, and they are, it is impossible to find or receive the Truth from another Source. Isn't this true?
Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan Edwin • 18 hours ago
Edwin, please re-read my posts. Over and over I state that I do not know the truth, but I do know what I believe - just as everyone else who has posted. No one can know the truth about what happens after one dies... because they aren't dead and unless you BELIEVE that spirits can contact you, they can't tell you what happens. If all posters here were honest, they would admit that they have based their beliefs on what is in the bible and what they've been taught or whatever other method. But, they don't, and I don't, KNOW it to be true. That's why it's called 'faith' rather than 'accuracy'
What's wrong with thanking someone when they have the cajones to stand up and say, 'I don't believe this.'? As the Christians in ancient Rome would stand up and say, 'I don't believe in Apollo, I believe .... such and such', don't you think that other Christians would say thank you, or well said, or hooray, or something along those lines? Don't you agree with others and state so?
I've never invited anyone to share in my agnosticism. I've invited them to step out of the narrowness and learn about the world they live on. Just as those who have 'invited' me, mostly under the idea eternal punishment, to go back to church, believe THIS because it's true, you've made up your mind so you are lost, you just haven't searched enough and on and on. I've studied NUMEROUS faiths and religions... and I base my BELIEFS on what I've learned, what I've seen, evidence and rationality. I can tell you a bit about how gravity works, I've never actually 'seen' gravity, but I BELIEVE gravity to be real enough that I decline to stand under an anvil someone is holding up and is ready to let go of. I KNOW the TRUTH that it will be a mite ouchyI BELIEVE that Adam and Eve in the garden and 'original sin' is farcical and merely a way to frighten people into submission. I don't believe that Zeus ever existed. If you would choose to be rhetorical about absolute truth, we could go on for days. No thanks.
I BELIEVE and see plenty of evidence that you are stuck in the bible, "... unwilling to consider there's something else." If you started studying the world's religions, faiths, dogmas and tenets, do you BELIEVE god will see it as wicked? Stepping over the line thus endangering your soul? That you might receive the TRUTH from another source?
As far as religions go, I find, and see PLENTY of evidence, that there are similarities between them. For example:
Christianity... "You don't believe what I believe and what's in MY book, and what the TRUTH is, therefore you will not enjoy eternal life in heaven. You will be judged, die and be punished forever and ever! You will suffer for your heresy! You've been told and warned"
Islam... "You don't believe what I believe and what's in MY book and what the TRUTH is, therefore you will not enjoy paradise. You will die because I'm going save allah the trouble. You have been judged and will suffer for your heresy! You've been told and warned."
Edwin Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan • 2 minutes ago
Alethea, you mention some good points in your reasoning, and I agree; most people only believe what they have been told to believe. Would you consider that includes you, whether you were directly told or by books and other sources? I mean nobody comes with original ideas; you just grow into a certain way of thinking and believing, by reading and/or experiencing.
Now according to your definition of faith, you have faith in what you believe, since you acknowledge you don't know it to be TRUE, but you still believe it. But that is not faith; that's assumption, even as it is an assumption for you to say I only have my Bible.
I grew up hearing from the Bible, but as soon as I was in High School, I started to get interested in other subjects and philosophies, several teachings and doctrines of the world such as New Age, Induism, methaphysics, positive thinking, various mentalities and sects within Christianity, UFO's mysteries, etc.
All those things left me empty. I only felt there was something else, but I didn't know what it was. So I thought I needed to become a "true Christian," the type you describe, and it appeared to work for some time until I discovered it all was a farce, like you rightly have found out, although I'm not sure what experience you had. I even became "a pastor," thinking I had it made, but thank God, my eyes were opened to my falsehood, not by a book, but by the true Jesus Christ, Whom you think is a myth, and I have been set free from all religious systems who claim to have God with them.
Christianity as you know it has nothing to do with Jesus Christ, except they use His Name for their own gain. I know that first hand. The true Jesus, Who lives and communicates with whom He wants, has never planned to torment people eternally, not at all. Men, however, are bound to destruction, doing their own things, insisting in being independent of their Creator, thus reaping much torment, for the time being and then some.
But the torment of our race won't be forever; it has an end, at the appointed time for each person and generation. This world is not all there is. Of course, you won't believe what I say, but it doesn't matter. Like I told you, for now, you need to take the stand you have taken, but there will come a time for you to face your Creator, not simply for punishment or shame sake like you surmise, but for reality, final deliverance from your vanity as a mere mortal, and that will happen to each and everyone of us, thank God.
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Paul Cohen
Re: Blog Talk for Your Perusal and Response, Lord Willing
Regarding your question about Alethea, Victor, the forum is open to her, and although she has been given our website, no one has specifically mentioned the forum. Not sure there is a need to do so for now.
And yes, people from the outside can come here and comment, going through a moderator first.
I appreciate what you had to say to Alethea, Edwin. Telling about our personal experiences in what the Lord has done with our lives, combined with the testimony of the Scriptures, is very powerful. It gives an irrefutable testimony of Light overcoming darkness. Why else did the religious persecute the first believers to death? They couldn't resist the testimony of those in Christ.
I had further exchanges with Alethea, too:
Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan PaulBCohen .• 17 hours ago
"He is alive, Alethea, and I know Him. Because I have a relationship with Him, I don't test His power as you suggest, but confer with Him about His will. That is the best and only way for all.
You will eventually see how He works all things for good, including the child wholost his arm and all other disasters, which men, in their rebellion, have sown for. He promises."
It is your BELIEF that, because of your relationship with him, that he is real. It is your BELIEF that the best and only way for 'all', is what YOU believe. (really?)
Disasters are because people have 'rebelled'? That men have 'asked for it'? I don't BELIEVE that.
PaulBCohen . Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan• a few seconds ago
Of course you don't believe you're a rebel, Alethea. It's natural for people not to take responsibility for their sin nature and outcome of their sins. That's another indication that what's happened to me is a miracle, because I was enabled to confess myself a sinner and to make things right by God's grace. I'm no different than you - it's only the grace of God in Jesus Christ that makes me different.
You have the cart before the horse here. My belief didn't lead me to the Lord. The Lord led me to my belief. It's His doing and power. You can argue with words, but not with the power of God.
Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan PaulBCohen .
Yes, I read it. And, that is what I believe it is.... a story. I've listened to nearly everything anyone has had to say about their faith, and their amazing experiences, and I believe that no one knows the truth about the supernatural. I don't believe that's possible. People in other lands, ask THEIR gods to settle the matter and believe that those gods do. THAT is true. Happens all the time. People of Christianity have had near death experiences and see angels, their loved ones, Jesus and heaven. People of Hinduism have had near death experiences, too. And, they see Lakshmi, Ganesha, Shiva, even Brahman. It's all a matter of what they believe, how they've been raised, what they've been told.
Any verses in any religious books can be quoted to support ones personal beliefs - the is MY belief.
PaulBCohen . Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan•
If one can't know the truth about the supernatural, how do you know that your thoughts about the supernatural are true? How can you judge my supernatural experience, or a Hindus'? By your own confession, you can't definitively say that what I've experienced with God isn't so.
I know and declare that one can know the Truth, because I know Him. And by Him I can judge the experience of another. It's not hard or an impressive feat. It's just a matter of having spiritual eyes to see, which God gives us through Christ. He is the Mediator between God and man, bringing us into the Kingdom of Heaven, His spiritual dwelling place of light and life.
And yes, people from the outside can come here and comment, going through a moderator first.
I appreciate what you had to say to Alethea, Edwin. Telling about our personal experiences in what the Lord has done with our lives, combined with the testimony of the Scriptures, is very powerful. It gives an irrefutable testimony of Light overcoming darkness. Why else did the religious persecute the first believers to death? They couldn't resist the testimony of those in Christ.
I had further exchanges with Alethea, too:
Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan PaulBCohen .• 17 hours ago
"He is alive, Alethea, and I know Him. Because I have a relationship with Him, I don't test His power as you suggest, but confer with Him about His will. That is the best and only way for all.
You will eventually see how He works all things for good, including the child wholost his arm and all other disasters, which men, in their rebellion, have sown for. He promises."
It is your BELIEF that, because of your relationship with him, that he is real. It is your BELIEF that the best and only way for 'all', is what YOU believe. (really?)
Disasters are because people have 'rebelled'? That men have 'asked for it'? I don't BELIEVE that.
PaulBCohen . Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan• a few seconds ago
Of course you don't believe you're a rebel, Alethea. It's natural for people not to take responsibility for their sin nature and outcome of their sins. That's another indication that what's happened to me is a miracle, because I was enabled to confess myself a sinner and to make things right by God's grace. I'm no different than you - it's only the grace of God in Jesus Christ that makes me different.
You have the cart before the horse here. My belief didn't lead me to the Lord. The Lord led me to my belief. It's His doing and power. You can argue with words, but not with the power of God.
Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan PaulBCohen .
Yes, I read it. And, that is what I believe it is.... a story. I've listened to nearly everything anyone has had to say about their faith, and their amazing experiences, and I believe that no one knows the truth about the supernatural. I don't believe that's possible. People in other lands, ask THEIR gods to settle the matter and believe that those gods do. THAT is true. Happens all the time. People of Christianity have had near death experiences and see angels, their loved ones, Jesus and heaven. People of Hinduism have had near death experiences, too. And, they see Lakshmi, Ganesha, Shiva, even Brahman. It's all a matter of what they believe, how they've been raised, what they've been told.
Any verses in any religious books can be quoted to support ones personal beliefs - the is MY belief.
PaulBCohen . Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan•
If one can't know the truth about the supernatural, how do you know that your thoughts about the supernatural are true? How can you judge my supernatural experience, or a Hindus'? By your own confession, you can't definitively say that what I've experienced with God isn't so.
I know and declare that one can know the Truth, because I know Him. And by Him I can judge the experience of another. It's not hard or an impressive feat. It's just a matter of having spiritual eyes to see, which God gives us through Christ. He is the Mediator between God and man, bringing us into the Kingdom of Heaven, His spiritual dwelling place of light and life.
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Victor Hafichuk
- Posts: 749
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:07 am
Re: Blog Talk for Your Perusal and Response, Lord Willing
Well spoken, Edwin. People contradict themselves condemning others for "faith" when they practice the same upon another object of worship. You turned it around with decent behavior and reason one cannot condemn or resist.
Alethea will not walk away untouched. Truth is truth; those who deny it can only fail and those who believe it can only prosper.
Alethea will not walk away untouched. Truth is truth; those who deny it can only fail and those who believe it can only prosper.
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Edwin Romero
Re: Blog Talk for Your Perusal and Response, Lord Willing
Right, Victor. I appreciate what you wrote in "The Mystery of the Fool," a very good paper concerning those who discard the truth but embrace amazing suppositions. And I have surely been there, done that, which the Lord has been using to show us the difference, making us able to compare once we have been to both sides.
The Truth is definitely incontrovertible, except by our foolishness, but in the end it prevails all the time. This morning I had a talk with a junior student at my school, a missionaries' son. We were discussing the recent events in France, and he was expressing his ideas about how crazy and radical Muslims are, claiming to be a religion of peace. He said, "I don't get it how they can kill you just for a picture that makes fun of their prophet. I have seen a lot of mockery about Christ, and Christians don't go killing people because of that."
I told him he was right in pointing out that major difference. "However," I said, "Do you realize Muslims threaten their opponents with death, but there's something similar in Christianity? Do you know what it is?" I asked him. He replied, "It's true! If you don't believe in Jesus, you will get eternal torment! That doesn't make sense, either!"
Then I explained a little more how that's not the God of the Bible, but one men have made in their own image, a really crazy god who could not rightly judge the Muslims for their behavior. It was a good talk, and while I don't expect to persuade my students, I know the truth does what it has to do in due time, and one day there will be fruit, all the glory and credit going to the Lord - the incontrovertible Truth.
The Truth is definitely incontrovertible, except by our foolishness, but in the end it prevails all the time. This morning I had a talk with a junior student at my school, a missionaries' son. We were discussing the recent events in France, and he was expressing his ideas about how crazy and radical Muslims are, claiming to be a religion of peace. He said, "I don't get it how they can kill you just for a picture that makes fun of their prophet. I have seen a lot of mockery about Christ, and Christians don't go killing people because of that."
I told him he was right in pointing out that major difference. "However," I said, "Do you realize Muslims threaten their opponents with death, but there's something similar in Christianity? Do you know what it is?" I asked him. He replied, "It's true! If you don't believe in Jesus, you will get eternal torment! That doesn't make sense, either!"
Then I explained a little more how that's not the God of the Bible, but one men have made in their own image, a really crazy god who could not rightly judge the Muslims for their behavior. It was a good talk, and while I don't expect to persuade my students, I know the truth does what it has to do in due time, and one day there will be fruit, all the glory and credit going to the Lord - the incontrovertible Truth.
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Beryl Knipe
Re: Blog Talk for Your Perusal and Response, Lord Willing
Hi Edwin,
Thank you for sharing your powerful and true words to Alethea. Thank you Paul and Victor, for your words, as well. The more I read the kind of stuff Alethea writes about, the more I know, HE IS THE TRUTH.
Beryl.
Thank you for sharing your powerful and true words to Alethea. Thank you Paul and Victor, for your words, as well. The more I read the kind of stuff Alethea writes about, the more I know, HE IS THE TRUTH.
Beryl.
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Beryl Knipe
Re: Blog Talk for Your Perusal and Response, Lord Willing
Hi All - I was reading from that posting again, with Alethea having a lot to say, about everything. This response of hers/his (?) to Victor is exactly the same as many responses I've received from my own family members:
"Victor, I'm certainly not playing the victim! In fact, that's why I did what I did. You can keep your path of truth because you don't know the truth anymore than anyone else... ANYONE. You don't have the faintest idea what the answer to life is, either. You appear to be basing what you believe (emphasis on the word 'believe') on the idea of eternal reward or eternal agony. I'm not buying any of it nor was I born a 'sinner'. I arrived here as a rather helpless child and I had done nothing, but someone told me I had because of some female in a mythical garden, who was told by some supernatural entity to avoid the tree of knowledge (evidently it was because 'Eve', and subsequently 'Adam', were to remain ignorant), even though that supernatural entity that supposedly created these 'people' KNEW that those people wouldn't listen and decided to punish every person thereafter. The entity made a trap to catch them being baaaaad little children so he could send plagues, pestilence, punishment and panic on them. Rather sadistic I think. Oh, and that's the reason women have labor pains.
You go ahead and be a sinner. I have done absolutely nothing to warrant the unthinkable torture and atrocious murder of some person who came from that supernatural entity, that supposedly impregnated some perfect little virgin with himself. Duh."
Some years back, I wrote to Victor and asked (or rather discussed with him) about some blog sites I used to reply to, about religion, God, Jesus Christ. He warned me against them and I honestly haven't entertained any blogs/postings about religion.
Personally, my own thinking, is that they don't help anyone or anything and no one (unless called by Him in His Way and His Time) will change their minds about anything they've written.
The comments (since 6am my time) have reached 649 and if only one person has changed his or her mind, please, share, if TPOT hears from anyone - I will swallow my words and apologize.
The discussion brings me back to:
Ecc.12:12 "And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books (blogs) there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh. (13) Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His Commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (14) For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil."
Beryl.
"Victor, I'm certainly not playing the victim! In fact, that's why I did what I did. You can keep your path of truth because you don't know the truth anymore than anyone else... ANYONE. You don't have the faintest idea what the answer to life is, either. You appear to be basing what you believe (emphasis on the word 'believe') on the idea of eternal reward or eternal agony. I'm not buying any of it nor was I born a 'sinner'. I arrived here as a rather helpless child and I had done nothing, but someone told me I had because of some female in a mythical garden, who was told by some supernatural entity to avoid the tree of knowledge (evidently it was because 'Eve', and subsequently 'Adam', were to remain ignorant), even though that supernatural entity that supposedly created these 'people' KNEW that those people wouldn't listen and decided to punish every person thereafter. The entity made a trap to catch them being baaaaad little children so he could send plagues, pestilence, punishment and panic on them. Rather sadistic I think. Oh, and that's the reason women have labor pains.
You go ahead and be a sinner. I have done absolutely nothing to warrant the unthinkable torture and atrocious murder of some person who came from that supernatural entity, that supposedly impregnated some perfect little virgin with himself. Duh."
Some years back, I wrote to Victor and asked (or rather discussed with him) about some blog sites I used to reply to, about religion, God, Jesus Christ. He warned me against them and I honestly haven't entertained any blogs/postings about religion.
Personally, my own thinking, is that they don't help anyone or anything and no one (unless called by Him in His Way and His Time) will change their minds about anything they've written.
The comments (since 6am my time) have reached 649 and if only one person has changed his or her mind, please, share, if TPOT hears from anyone - I will swallow my words and apologize.
The discussion brings me back to:
Ecc.12:12 "And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books (blogs) there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh. (13) Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His Commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (14) For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil."
Beryl.
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Victor Hafichuk
- Posts: 749
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:07 am
Re: Blog Talk for Your Perusal and Response, Lord Willing
You’re wrong, Alethea (interestingly, your name means “truth”).
You contradict yourself. You declare there are no absolutes (“nobody knows or can know the truth”) and then proceed with an absolute that nobody knows or can know the truth. How does that work?
You say I don’t know but you know. How’s that? If it’s possible I’m wrong, isn’t it possible you can be wrong? Or do you claim to do the impossible, “knowing the truth” after all?
But I’m here to tell you, I know the Truth and the Truth can be known. The only reason you adamantly deny being able to know the truth is because you’ve never known or heard the Truth for yourself. It’s a denial out of ignorance, out of lack of knowledge and experience. You take the high road dictating to others that they should not dictate to you because you know better.
Furthermore, you know nothing of what I believe or teach. Your statements accuse me of much falsehood I don’t believe or teach. I’ve learned and know better. My relationship isn’t with a nominal Christian orthodox group or any other religious organization. My relationship is with the Living God Who spoke to me and commanded me to come out of all religion. My wife and I have continually heard directly from Him and have now walked with Him for over 40 years, He confirming our relationship with, and establishing our steps in, Him.
You can and will deny all this and claim that many others have had their experiences with other entities, none of which is true. I’ve communicated with countless of many different religions and philosophies the world over and none have what I and others have been given, not even the vast majority of those calling themselves “Christians.” They have their Bibles, “holy books,” churches, spiritual elders and leaders, sources of information, indoctrinations and experiences, but they haven’t been face-to-face and in continual relationship with the Risen Christ.
Your life has been, and is, a mess of darkness, without hope, purpose, meaning or direction; face it. I was in that same state, as others I know were, and was ushered out of it supernaturally in 1973, despite religious and social upbringing that tried to compel and coerce me in other directions. After a few years of searching, some of it rather agonizing, looking everywhere I knew to look, lo and behold, to my amazement, I WAS FOUND. What finally happened to me was beyond my imagination or power or education or any other thing one might think accomplishes anything. It was a heart change, a nature change, an ushering into another dimension, which only a Superior Being can accomplish.
That Superior Being identified Himself to me in 1972 as Jesus Christ.
You know nothing, Alethea, yet you speak adamantly like you are so informed and wise and most others are sooo stupid and ignorant.
Your claims are false about what others have believed or experienced, but you don’t realize it. That’s because you determine to remain in your chosen beliefs, which you most certainly claim are superior to almost everyone else’s.
You essentially tell me (as well as others) I’m ignorant, stupid, deluded, foolishly following vain imaginations, as sincere as I might be. I’m only telling you the same thing about yourself, with nouns and adjectives I should be allowed to use if true.
Alethea, allow me to speak frankly, without rancor, though it may seem so on paper: You are a hypocrite, a false accuser. You are ignorant and bitter, a know-it-all. I’ve been where you are, and I didn’t make it out by any virtue or ability of my own, so I can’t condemn you, but that doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to speak the truth, even as you presume to speak what you think is true.
Let me tell you something true about yourself, not in angry or evil-intended passion, but in objectivity and as fact, seeing you presume to like to deal in facts: You’re a fool. What I say is true, but you’ll resent it because it’s true and you don’t believe anyone can know the truth because you don’t want to hear it. Isn’t that ironic?
I have the Perfect Solution for you, “Truth,” the only sure way to find out if one can really know the Truth, after all. Here it is: Make the firm decision to stop lying to yourself any longer – it isn’t getting you anywhere, never has, and never can.
Get honest with, and admit the truth about, yourself. That’s the starting point that points to freedom and home.
And John Pavlovitz, you are way off track in the four points you make in your article, Dear Church, Here’s Why People Are Really Leaving You. That’s because you don’t know the Truth, either. Visit our site, learn, and live.
You contradict yourself. You declare there are no absolutes (“nobody knows or can know the truth”) and then proceed with an absolute that nobody knows or can know the truth. How does that work?
You say I don’t know but you know. How’s that? If it’s possible I’m wrong, isn’t it possible you can be wrong? Or do you claim to do the impossible, “knowing the truth” after all?
But I’m here to tell you, I know the Truth and the Truth can be known. The only reason you adamantly deny being able to know the truth is because you’ve never known or heard the Truth for yourself. It’s a denial out of ignorance, out of lack of knowledge and experience. You take the high road dictating to others that they should not dictate to you because you know better.
Furthermore, you know nothing of what I believe or teach. Your statements accuse me of much falsehood I don’t believe or teach. I’ve learned and know better. My relationship isn’t with a nominal Christian orthodox group or any other religious organization. My relationship is with the Living God Who spoke to me and commanded me to come out of all religion. My wife and I have continually heard directly from Him and have now walked with Him for over 40 years, He confirming our relationship with, and establishing our steps in, Him.
You can and will deny all this and claim that many others have had their experiences with other entities, none of which is true. I’ve communicated with countless of many different religions and philosophies the world over and none have what I and others have been given, not even the vast majority of those calling themselves “Christians.” They have their Bibles, “holy books,” churches, spiritual elders and leaders, sources of information, indoctrinations and experiences, but they haven’t been face-to-face and in continual relationship with the Risen Christ.
Your life has been, and is, a mess of darkness, without hope, purpose, meaning or direction; face it. I was in that same state, as others I know were, and was ushered out of it supernaturally in 1973, despite religious and social upbringing that tried to compel and coerce me in other directions. After a few years of searching, some of it rather agonizing, looking everywhere I knew to look, lo and behold, to my amazement, I WAS FOUND. What finally happened to me was beyond my imagination or power or education or any other thing one might think accomplishes anything. It was a heart change, a nature change, an ushering into another dimension, which only a Superior Being can accomplish.
That Superior Being identified Himself to me in 1972 as Jesus Christ.
You know nothing, Alethea, yet you speak adamantly like you are so informed and wise and most others are sooo stupid and ignorant.
Your claims are false about what others have believed or experienced, but you don’t realize it. That’s because you determine to remain in your chosen beliefs, which you most certainly claim are superior to almost everyone else’s.
You essentially tell me (as well as others) I’m ignorant, stupid, deluded, foolishly following vain imaginations, as sincere as I might be. I’m only telling you the same thing about yourself, with nouns and adjectives I should be allowed to use if true.
Alethea, allow me to speak frankly, without rancor, though it may seem so on paper: You are a hypocrite, a false accuser. You are ignorant and bitter, a know-it-all. I’ve been where you are, and I didn’t make it out by any virtue or ability of my own, so I can’t condemn you, but that doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to speak the truth, even as you presume to speak what you think is true.
Let me tell you something true about yourself, not in angry or evil-intended passion, but in objectivity and as fact, seeing you presume to like to deal in facts: You’re a fool. What I say is true, but you’ll resent it because it’s true and you don’t believe anyone can know the truth because you don’t want to hear it. Isn’t that ironic?
I have the Perfect Solution for you, “Truth,” the only sure way to find out if one can really know the Truth, after all. Here it is: Make the firm decision to stop lying to yourself any longer – it isn’t getting you anywhere, never has, and never can.
Get honest with, and admit the truth about, yourself. That’s the starting point that points to freedom and home.
And John Pavlovitz, you are way off track in the four points you make in your article, Dear Church, Here’s Why People Are Really Leaving You. That’s because you don’t know the Truth, either. Visit our site, learn, and live.
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Edwin Romero
Re: Blog Talk for Your Perusal and Response, Lord Willing
Excellent confrontation, straightforward, and to the point. It appears as if the Lord has been wanting to leave things clear for Alethea for a while, and He brought her/him to this blog for that very purpose. No excuse left now.
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Beryl Knipe
Re: Blog Talk for Your Perusal and Response, Lord Willing
Hi Victor/Edwin,
I agree ... excellent words to Alethea. As Edwin says, no excuses now.
Beryl.
I agree ... excellent words to Alethea. As Edwin says, no excuses now.
Beryl.
Last edited by Beryl Knipe on Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Victor Hafichuk
- Posts: 749
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:07 am
Re: Blog Talk for Your Perusal and Response, Lord Willing
Alethea Speakman Sche-Brogan, I've posted a reply to you. John's blog seems to be having difficulties retaining my post to you.
Victor
Victor