Advice on what jobs to look for and how to look for them in a way that glorifies Christ is my aim here. Also here is a recent email correspondence Victor asked me to add that may help for anyone wanting to give specific advice BUT this is also for general public questions. May the Lord Jesus be glorified and put first in all ventures and decisions.
I wrote to Victor:
Dear Victor,
I just saw your business Harvest Haven. I've had a lot of visions of the future, most of which were led by my carnal mind (even when I thought it glorified God). The one that has stuck around in my mind for "long-term" is the 'Eden' project. Perhaps the name should be changed, especially since the goal wouldn't be to try and get back to Eden. But I'll just give you the rundown because HH does much of what i want to do with my life.
The end result would be a large scale farm using small scale techniques that tries to hire and educate homeless, widows, orphans and needy families. Facilities to provide necessities as well as the option to stay long term. It would essentially use your standard of food selection in HH.
I don't know yet where following Christ is going to take me in this lifetime. In my mind I can't help but think I'll end up being killed because of my hatred of hypocrisy (I do know there is yet much work to be done on my heart though). I plan one day on making a visit to your farm and God willing I shall. I won't be pretentious in planning or hoping for more. May you be blessed as a man who has come in the name of the Lord. (I am saying that partially because I'll be blessed but after seeing HH now I KNOW it's true. You shall know a tree by it's fruit indeed.)
Victor Hafichuk
1:16 PM (5 hours ago)
to Ronnie, me
Hi, Nicholas!
Would you like to submit this to the Forum, along with your picture and contact details? It’s up to you. Ask Ronnie to help.
Do you have any revelations of God regarding how to job search?
Regarding advice to give you, I don't really have any to teach. I'm young and learning while I go along as a farmhand for a local organic farm. However, if you want to get into that career, I can show you resources, Lord willing.
I just read the papers again before typing this. I have been working at an organic farm for the last 6 weeks and while it has been grueling, I thank the Lord for that. I haven't received any revelation from the Lord thus far except that I should stay where I'm at, work, and wait on Him. Since working here I've had a growing desire to have a farm that's HH certified in Georgia. Still I have tons to learn and God has graciously blessed me with the desire to learn and experiment and build and work with all my might. So maybe I'll be at this farm for months or years; God is faithful and will keep teaching me as I seek Him.
I appreciate the offer for some job finding resources and wouldn't mind seeing them. My Sunday's are still open for working and I'm looking to do some kind of payed work. I'd love some recommendations on books or sources to learn about farming as well.
As for job resources, I got my job through WWOOF. What happened: I set up my profile to details skills and passions in agriculture, sent an inquiry to a local farm to ask about volunteering there for two weeks, then, once on the farm, the farmer wanted to pay me for Week 2 and onward if things worked out the first week. Thank God for that unlikely circumstance. So, far as I know, the deal's still on. Thus, with God's grace, you could use WWOOF to volunteer for farms, and perhaps they'd like to keep you around. (Warning: It's possible that WWOOF prohibits inquiring for paid work.)
Go for the work and learning, not the tourism, and you'd look more serious as a WWOOFer, should you go that route.
Two great names in the cause of good farming and healthy food production are Michael Pollan and Joel Salatin. A good book to give you an idea of the challenges, defeats, and victories of organic farming is Turn Here Sweet Corn by Atina Diffley. My hat off to excellent farmers Martin and Atina, and Joel. Look them up – their books are worth buying.
Thanks Alan, I'll be sure to look into these links soon. It sounds like an incredible way to meet some farmers in the organic animal husbandry field. And what I wouldn't give to be taught by a farmer who sells organic raw dairy. Lord willing it'll go well at the farm you're currently at. Regardless He's got our needs all taken care of.
Nicholas, familiarize yourself with laws concerning agriculture, organic certification and minimum requirements thereof, and raw milk sale and consumption.
Raw milk is illegal in Georgia, so there would not be anyone selling it there. There may be a loophole called “cow-sharing,” but I’m unfamiliar with Georgia regulations.
Many people claim to be organic and are about as close to conventional and as far from truly organic as possible. Harvest Haven has been chemical and GMO free for 20+ years, with humane and natural livestock practices. Very few farms in North America are similar in that regard.
So be sure to research thoroughly if you are going to be seeking employment at an agricultural operation.
And don’t bother supporting anyone who even dabbles in GMO or conventional farming or produce sales. That would be like giving Satan the knife to slit your neighbor’s throat. Simply evil.
Thanks for the instruction Brandon. I'll be sure to do my due diligence in future job searching.
In regards to where I currently work; I knew I was suppose to be waiting on the Lord, and I know he has spoken through you. I have questioned several of the practices at this farm; the most notable one being the use of plastic mulch and a Bayer labeled pesticide. While they are certified organic; I definitely know they aren't chemical free. You are absolutely right Brandon; and I repent for taking this job in the first place. It was purely out of unbelief and unwillingness to step up to the plate when pressures from home brought me (quite literally) to this place. Long story short; I was jobless while living with my parents for 48 days at the time and Mom drove me to an organic farm I mentioned looking into. I prayed about it and thought the Lord didn't want me working here in the first place. Seems that has been confirmed.
Unbelief got me in this. Believing on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ will get me out.
The only thing to do now is to put in a 2 week notice and start looking for work and housing else where. I think WOOFing it looks like the best option. And I am definitely looking to learn and work.
Thank you both. I'm quite hopeful for what the Lord has in store for me.
Look Nicholas, you're overreacting, fearfully regretting that you took the job without knowing for sure if you should have worked there. What makes you think you won't regret quitting without knowing if you needed to?
Stop trying to figure everything and just slow down for a minute.
First of all, plastic mulch isn't that big of a deal. I don't like it myself, but it's not poisonous or anything. It's just not ideal for soil microbes.
Second, do you know what's in that Bayer container? There are organic approved non-toxic pesticides that are used in organic agriculture. Again, I don't really think even organic pesticides are the answer to insect problems, but I'm sure they are used on some of the farms we source our produce from.
I somehow doubt your boss would be so careless as to let you see a chemical container lying around. Have you asked him about it? Are you sure you know what's going on there? As in, absolutely certain?
I say you just slow down, work hard and ask more questions instead of just going on feelings and presumptions. Spend your time learning and researching. Asking and studying. It will help you snap out of your over-dramatic unreality. You have to come to realize that you just have no clue what you're talking about, and the only way to change that is humble yourself and stop making snap judgments on everything.
I say you just slow down, work hard and ask more questions instead of just going on feelings and presumptions. Spend your time learning and researching. Asking and studying. It will help you snap out of your over-dramatic unreality. You have to come to realize that you just have no clue what you're talking about, and the only way to change that is humble yourself and stop making snap judgments on everything.
I wrote a post a minute ago that essentially said the same thing here as Martin. I'm in agreement, you need to slow down instead of going wherever the wind blows you.
And my original post to you was meant to drive the point home that you need to take the time to research what it is you are doing and seeking to do, not suggest that you up and quit.
Brandon does have a point about agriculture operations. I did consider raw goat milk dairies near my house for WWOOFing or internships (that milk's legal to sell here!), but I was put off by their use of vaccines for the goats. Maybe I was overly critical and that isn't what Brandon meant. Still, I ended up at a blueberry and chicken farm. It's been long, sweat and dirt filled days, yet I'm thankful for it, Nicholas.
I didn't know that unbelief was happening in your life, Nicholas, but I am hopeful for what the Lord has in store for you. Even if it means your moving out of state.
Note: I wrote the previous comment and didn't have Martin's reply loaded.
I thought something nefarious was going on at the farm Nicholas is at, but, nope, not enough evidence for that as Martin points out. Sorry. I am not recommending that you move out of state, by the way, Nicholas.
Well. The Lord has definitely accounted for all that you guys have said and my mistakes. I took it a to home than I should have when Brandon said "its like handing Satan the knife to slit your neighbor's throat." I ended up quitting today because I just assumed the Lord didn't want me working at this farm anymore. I should've looked up what was in the container but I didn't leave because of what was in the container. I can say I left because I know the Lord will provide so even if this was the wrong decision (which after reading your responses I'm now considering that it might have been) there were still plenty of reasons other than the bayer product and the plastic mulch that were getting to me about working at this farm. I'm not going to excuse my shotgun behavior though. Even though I prayed about most every decision I made throughout the day; I can't wipe away the reality of my overreaction and dramatization. I repent and beg the Lord's mercy on this. I thought that just because I prayed out loud he would answer me immediately on things like this; and I should have known that he doesn't.
Regardless of all the reasons I could give for quitting that bring a lot of questions I can't answer; I don't regret quitting, so much as not getting all the information needed before making the decision. I did only leave based on what I did know though. She is supporting the agrochemical industry by purchasing bayer and destroying her land by leaving tons of plastic buried in the soil which I know is only accumulating year by year. If she keeps the practice up then the next generation on the land will be dealing with the problem. I still didn't handle this situation wisely (because I didn't ask for wisdom so purely on my head), but regardless, all I can do is humble myself. I should have spoken with her and asked questions looking for serious answers, but I didn't, and repent for it. http://www.enviresol.com/Inocusol/BacillusSubtilis.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; that's the stuff she's using which is totally safe. But I can say that when I spoke to her about it, I made it clear that it was that she was supporting Bayer with her money, not because of what was in the bottle.
After making the decision and talking to the farm manager who was working there for 4 months, he agreed with me that Ashley is labeling herself as organic when she isn't. It still doesn't excuse my behavior but what's done is done. I can see that the Lord wanted to humble me and I don't think I've felt smaller. I let a lot of pent up frustration for how she treats us as employees get to me and it poped when I figured I was justified by the Lord to just up and quit; thinking to be delivered from being a part of an evil business system. I do still have an opportunity to speak with her so I will. Its the right thing to do. Because even though the reasons I said are right reasons to leave a business; I went about it like an arrogant little schmuck.
I should wait to be delivered from myself before desiring to be delivered from anything else.
So I spoke with her and I'm hoping to actually sit down and be able to ask some questions. "sigh" I keep having to learn the hard way that if I don't believe the Lord when he speaks to me; or follow wisdom when it's given; I am in unbelief and there will only be more problems in the future. Alan, the most nefarious thing happening on that farm is that the employees talk bad about their boss. Regardless of any fault of her's; I didn't step up and say that I wasn't going to participate. Instead I willingly participated, knowing it was wrong; and I repent for my hypocrisy. It lead to me almost leaving immediately half way through the day today; but God had mercy on me and I went back in repentance saying I was sorry for up and leaving like I did. I told her I should've asked her questions and brought any complaints to her before deciding to just quit immediately. I repent and have tried to right the wrong by at offering my 2 weeks and asking if we could sit down and talk. I know it'd inconvenience her and the others to lose another experienced employee; and if I'm going to move I don't want it to be "well I'm going to go find something better for me". I barely know right from wrong; much less what's good for me.
When I think I'm right I can't be wrong has been my mentality and its vile. I think I should fess up about being a gossip towards her with the other employees. Its going to hurt my relationship with pretty much everyone; but I'd have a clear conscience before God and that's what would count. Questionable or inefficient farming practices aside; the spiritual needs to be handled before the physical can. Only the Lord Jesus Christ could bring about a good end to all of this.
I confessed my sin to my boss and now I am no longer burdened by it. Praise God for his mercy and grace. It knows no bounds and surpasses all wrong doing. Thank you to everyone who posted. By God's grace I will be honest in the future with everyone at all times. Although searching for a job was the intent of this thread; keeping myself from having to continue job searching for bad reasons is equally as important.
Me and my boss are now more open and free to communicate which is good, and God willing it will lead to more growth and profit on both our ends. I can say I'm now I'm content in a way I've never been before. Who knew doing things the Lord's way would lead to that?
Nicholas Carpenter wrote:I keep having to learn the hard way that if I don't believe the Lord when he speaks to me; or follow wisdom when it's given; I am in unbelief and there will only be more problems in the future.
I would see it the other way around. You’re going on feelings and presumptions and making snap judgements here, like Martin says, and that’s causing problems, not unbelief in the sense that you are seeing it. While I appreciate your earnestness, it does you no good whatsoever scrutinizing your every action, word, and thought. You need to just zoom out, zoom out. Your words reflect your religiosity, and I've been there as well.
(Proverbs 10:19 NET)
When words abound, transgression is inevitable, but the one who restrains his words is wise.
I am not advocating that you should support evil or not do adequate research, yet at the same time I’m saying that you can’t expect perfect behaviour and practices from unbelievers and thus distance yourself from the reality. So they gossip too, but where do you find a workplace where no one murmurs against their employers or colleagues or the weather? There’s a time for everything, and what that means is you can’t go by the law or what you perceive it to be. A time to confront and a time to let God confront; He is over good and evil, and both will be present wherever you are in this world.
I'd be thankful for correction if I'm wrong in this.
Nicholas, Alan, Lauren, and others here I owe you an apology.
What I said was self-righteous, religious, placing a burden on you, Nicholas, and others, that was unfair, and that I haven’t even upheld myself, which is hypocritical of me.
Really, I was being selfish, arrogant, and proud, behaving worse than the Pharisees, because I don’t even do the things I was requiring.
I haven’t eaten 100% organic, nor was I working for a company that was organic only. Essentially, Nicholas, in this case you were more blameless than I, because I did support and work for the enemy.
I’m sorry, and I had no business being so overbearing, or behaving like a spiritual prig. I have a responsibility to watch what I say, and I thoroughly abused that, not loving my neighbor, but berating them.
Nicholas, I hadn't noted your latest post when I submitted mine. I'm thankful that all turned out well.
I've always been analyzing myself and therefore I know, or I believe, that it's something that can cause unnecessary trouble within and without, but how I was speaking to you, Nicholas, was simply self-righteous and haughty. I am sorry.
I could and should have chosen my words so much better. Again, I can only ask if I may be corrected in this and given to see right.
Amen Jenni. I'm in agreement with what you've stated.
Nicholas, you are trying way too hard to please God by works and your own understanding, which is the exact opposite of pleasing Him. It's only by faith, trusting and believing in Him and Him alone, that pleases God.
Hebrews 11:6 AKJV
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that comes to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
I understand where you are coming from, as I've been there in religiosity and trying to figure things out by knowledge and sight, and it only leads you to hell. You are walking by feelings/emotions and your thoughts, and that is Satan presenting Himself as God sending you into a whirlwind of confusion on the double minded sea:
James 1:5-8 AKJV
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that gives to all men liberally, and upbraides not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavers is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
The thoughts and voice you are hearing in your mind quoting scriptures and knowledge is not God, but the devil, having you live by the letter of the law to be unstable, instead of trust in God. Stop trying to figure everything out on your own understanding. Stop trying to figure out God, as if He wants you to know something He will reveal it. You are trying to be God, eating and living by the tree of knowledge.
I was in the same boat on the same sea, and ultimately the cause of my problem was sin. God used Jesse Lee Peterson's message on dropping anger/bitterness and forgiving your parents to reveal my issue. I had hatred and resentment towards my parents and grandmother. I had taken on the identity of what I hated, my mother, and it was a domino effect of me hating others as well. It was hell. I was an emotional, angry, double minded, extremely religious and self righteous prig that was living by knowledge trying to be God. When I forgave, God set me free of this bondage and I no longer have bitterness and anger towards people, even my enemies, but understanding and compassion (non emotional) knowing that they are blind.
Is there anybody that you have anger, bitterness and resentment towards? If you do, you are in unforgiveness towards them and hate them. It's very simple with God: if you don't forgive people their sins, He won't forgive you and you'll retain your sins:
Matthew 6:14-15 AKJV
14 For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if you forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Mark 11:25 Berean
25 And when you stand to pray, if you hold anything against another, forgive it, so that your Father in heaven will forgive your trespasses as well."
Ephesians 4:30-32 AKJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby you are sealed to the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamor, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32 And be you kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake has forgiven you
Matthew 5:7 AKJV
7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
James 2:13 AKJV
13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that has showed no mercy; and mercy rejoices against judgment.
Obeying The Lord in these matters also revealed other sins I needed to confront which was bitterness towards my wife and idolatry of Victor which was creating resentment.
I am now truly able to walk by faith and have The Lord's understanding, not being blinded by sin. This is the life Christ wants for us, but we must believe and obey. Jesus gives an excellent description of what the walk of faith looks like:
John 15:1-5 AKJV
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the farmer.
2 Every branch in me that bears not fruit he takes away: and every branch that bears fruit, he purges it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now you are clean through the word which I have spoken to you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can you, except you abide in me.
5 I am the vine, you are the branches: He that stays in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing.
How much work does a branch do on a tree? None. The branch is just there, and all the work and production are done by the farmer and vine. The branch is fully dependent for it's existence on the farmer and vine. How stupid would it be for a branch to try to produce fruit on it's own? That's what it is like when we are trying to produce the fruits of God in our own strength. When walking by faith, God and Christ does ALL the work, and you are just an observer. It is like being a young son in the passenger seat, while your father is driving. The son doesn't do anything but sit, observe and enjoy while the father does all the work. So it is with The Heavenly Father.
Your issue may not be unforgiveness or maybe it is. Seek God to reveal these things to you, and when He does, obey what is given.
Hi everyone,
I just want to say how thankful I am to see, hear, and be a part of God’s Work in us, here at TPOT as we go through our walk.
Thank you Lord for your mercy, guidance and love.
Brandon, I gave you specific instructions to let everyone on the forum know that I gave you hell for your arrogance and hypocrisy and required that you apologize.
I'm not even going to bother to psychoanalyze why you didn't listen to me. Whether it's rebellion or carelessness makes no difference to me. It still makes me angry.
Jenni, follow the Lord not your fears. Your first response was clear and helpful. Your apology was completely unnecessary. Apologizing because you're afraid you're wrong without a real conviction you're wrong is self-preservation, not righteousness. (This isn't a rebuke; it's an encouragement)
Nicholas, you're not hearing from God. We've told you that. Believe it. You shouldn't have quit your job so rashly. That was foolish. But it is what it is. Find more work and work hard. Stop judging everybody and you'll stay out of a lot of trouble.
Lawren, I'm not impressed with your posturing. That's all I see here folks. Just religious posturing. Primping and posing and putting on airs. Get real.
Isaiah, I don't know where to begin. Your long-winded posts are just that. You're like someone who passes gas and expects everyone to be impressed. Here you are telling us that you're delivered from being a religious prig, when the total opposite is true. All I hear from you is "I used to be bad like you, but now that I deem myself to be super great, I'm going to pontificate and shoot off my opinions and expect applause from everyone."
Proverbs 10:19 GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
19 Sin is unavoidable when there is much talk,
but whoever seals his lips is wise.
Who promoted you to spiritual elder, Isaiah, or how about you, Brandon? Who put you guys on the throne? Your banter makes me want to puke. Is that too strong? Will you hold it against me? I don't even care anymore. If I'm wrong, let the Lord lift you up and bring me down. I just don't want to sift through this putrid crap anymore. I'm tired of it. I hate it! It's repulsive!
Smarten up, people. This isn't a social club or a spiritual fashion show. This isn't about getting a makeover. This isn't a self-improvement exercise. This is about death and resurrection.
Brandon’s post sounded like he had apologized without much pressure. However, he actually had to be rebuked first and was supposed to have said so. Why make yourself falsely look good, Brandon?
Are we supposed to forgive you? I’m wondering if I’d be against God if I did so soon. I don’t know how forgiveness works for what may be willful rebellion.
Another: Just today and before I red Isaiah’s reply here, I thought that Isaiah would become an elder. Not sure why I thought that, but I doubt it was of God.
And, honestly, Martin, without people like you rebuking others, I often wouldn’t see the wrong others on TPOT did. I am thankful to read all this.
I felt justified when you apologized, Brandon. It bothered me that you would come at me so hard about working where I do with no information and after our recent conversation about where you worked. When you didn’t speak up regarding the emails that were exchanged yesterday, I considered reaching out to you to address what was left to be resolved between us. I waited because I thought you might still address it. Then I saw your post here this morning, felt vindicated, and immediately had to repent because I was filled with pride. I didn’t think I wrote my response to you in that spirit, but I was obviously kidding myself. I just echoed what Thierry said in a different post when I apologized to him. “Forgiven” seemed succinct and accurate, the Lord has forgiven it. Responding to apologies confuses me (what power do I have to forgive? what if they seem disingenuous?) but I’m sure I wouldn’t have had difficulty speaking what was given or keeping silent if my heart had been right from the outset.
Please forgive me for being arrogant and hypocritical. I’m genuinely thankful for the insight the Lord has given you.
I thank the Lord for calling me out through you, Martin. I have been terrified of it for some time, because I’ve basically been terrified of what He does through you. I’ve witnessed His exposing the horrible parts of men through your words and I was afraid of you coming for me too. I know there is sin in my life that needs to be exposed just like I knew my reactions were sinful in the midst of all of this. I was dosing myself with a little bit of poison at every turn and I was not blameless. I deserve more severe correction and I am certain that it’s coming but I would rather be cut open by you and live than kill myself slowly.
My prayer for all of us, myself and Nicholas especially, given our situations, was genuine. I don’t want to come off as religious, the Lord knows I really do believe that His bringing us low will keep us from diving headlong into empty pools.
