The Path of Truth Forum

Hi Guys

I have been reading some of your stuff and it is not bad but I have a problem with God appreciates Satan. To me you guys don't really have a proper understanding of the nature of our God or the nature of Lucifer/Satan. Lets see if I can sort this out for you. You wrote

"On the tenth day of the second month (February 10, 2015), I received a revelation that will surely cause a stir within nominal orthodox
Christendom and other religious circles."

Unfortunately you didn't say who you got the revelation from. People can receive revelation from Satan as well as the Holy Spirit. From what I am reading after this is Satan justifying himself as the fall guy instead of taking responsibility for his actions. Where do we see this in life? Ah yes amongst sinners who are happy to believe that they are victims instead of taking responsibility. Anyway let us go on.

You write

"“And God saw everything that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day” (Genesis 1:31 MKJV).

Everything God had made was not only good, but very good. How could it be otherwise with a God Who is Love, according to John, and Who is Perfect,
Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent, and the Creator and Source of All Wisdom and Goodness?

We find that among the “everything” God had made was the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Yes…not only knowledge of good, but also of evil.
How could there be knowledge of evil, if there is no evil to have knowledge of? Therefore, God created evil, even as Isaiah prophesied:""

The prophesy you are referring to is this,

"Isaiah 45:5-7 MKJV
(5) I am the LORD, and there is none else, no God besides Me; I clothed you, though you have not known Me;
(6) that they may know from the rising of the sun, and to the sunset, that there is none besides Me. I am the LORD, and there is none else;
(7) forming the light and creating darkness; making peace and creating evil. I the LORD do all these things."

OK a couple of things here. First of all God did not "create" evil. You have twisted and misrepresented the scriptures. Who else does that?
Ah yes Satan. Let us look at context. In verse 1-7 we see the Lord talking to Cyrus. Cyrus has not yet been born so it is prophesy to the Israelites regarding a future event so that the Israelites know who is the LORD. This prophesy is also telling us that Cyrus will shake up the known world. The word that you have translated as evil can also mean calamity/affliction/distress. These 3 words more correctly describe what Cyrus will do since he caused great distress to the Babylonians. Notice the prophecy is written in present tense not past tense.
Prophetic present always refers to the future therefore you guys using this reference to say God created evil is totally wrong. Anyway lets move on.

What is evil? Is it not anything contrary to Gods nature? So of course God knows evil since He knows that anything that is contrary to His nature and will is evil. Hey this is not rocket science. So God does not have to create evil does He? So what is the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil? Firstly it is NOT the Tree of Good & Evil just the knowledge of. When eaten it created in Adam & Eve the facility to know what is contrary to God but in doing that also stirred desires in their hearts. As we have seen over the last 6000 years these desires cannot
be suppressed by will alone.

When God finished creation He declared it very good and it was. Everything was created to succeed. You see God also planted the Tree of Life in the garden. If Adam and Eve had eaten from this tree then all the pain mankind has been through would not have happened. The Tree of Life would have given Adam & Eve all the knowledge they needed to willingly love and obey God and also know what was evil but reject it just as 2/3rds of the angels in heaven also rejected following Satan and stuck with God.

Let us look at the origin of Satan.

Isa 14:12 "How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!
Isa 14:13 You said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount
of assembly in the far reaches of the north;
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.'
Isa 14:15 But you are brought down to Sheol, to the far reaches of the pit.
Isa 14:16 Those who see you will stare at you and ponder over you: 'Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms,
Isa 14:17 who made the world like a desert and overthrew its cities, who did not let his prisoners go home?'

Eze 28:12 "Son of man, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord GOD: "You were the signet of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
Eze 28:13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper,
sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle; and crafted in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared.
Eze 28:14 You were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked.
Eze 28:15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till unrighteousness was found in you.
Eze 28:16 In the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence in your midst, and you sinned; so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain
of God, and I destroyed you, O guardian cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:17 Your heart was proud because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor. I cast you to the ground;
I exposed you before kings, to feast their eyes on you.
Eze 28:18 By the multitude of your iniquities, in the unrighteousness of your trade you profaned your sanctuaries; so I brought fire out from your
midst; it consumed you, and I turned you to ashes on the earth in the sight of all who saw you.
Eze 28:19 All who know you among the peoples are appalled at you; you have come to a dreadful end and shall be no more forever."

You can see from these passages that Lucifer was Gods ultimate angel of beauty until he became proud of his beauty and also corrupted wisdom. Satan
is the source of self righteousness. Satan believed that his beauty and light and power came from himself instead of giving thanks to the God that gave all that beauty, light and power to him. We don't know when Satan sinned. I know you say it was after Job since he was giving reports to God but that is another story. Satan would have definitely rebelled after Man was created. Why do I say that? Man is greater than the angels therefore man was created greater than Lucifer. Lucifer in his pride became jealous and plotted to make Man fall in which he succeeded. You probably say that God know all that and therefore was the author of the fall. That is woolley thinking. God creates choices. He wants people and angels (and probably a creation we know nothing about) to fall in love with Him and obey Him willingly. God is not an totalitarian autocrat - that is Satan. 1/3rd of the angels who beheld Gods glory chose to follow Satan and I would say that many of them regretted that decision after the cross. Too late, they made their bed and they have to sleep in it just as we have to.

You wrote,
"We hear no more of Satan in the early history of God’s dealings with man, not a word during Enoch’s day, Noah’s, Abraham’s, Isaac’s, Jacob’s, Joseph’s,
or Joshua’s. Nor do we hear of Satan during the times of the judges in Israel. We don’t hear of him again until David’s day:"

Well NO. Job was written about the time of Abraham. But really what is your point? The Bible is about God and Man where Satan is only mentioned when
he puts himself in the picture. The Bible is not the WHOLE story, it only contains the bits that are relevant for us.

You wrote,
"In Job, we read that Satan is granted fellowship and equity, in a measure at least, with the sons of God, and access to the very throne of God.

Job 1:6-12 KJV
(6) Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
(7) And the LORD said unto Satan, “From where do you come?” Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, “From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.”

Well gee whiz. Satan at that time OWNED planet earth. As the owner (Adam gave it to him), Satan had the right at that time to give a report as the angels who were responsible for other creation gave their reports. Satan does not have that right now since Jesus retook ownership at His resurrection.

You have written,

"Was Satan once a glorious angel who later fell as is so commonly taught in Christendom? That’s not what Jesus said:"

“You are of the Devil as father, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning [the one created and classified as
“very good”], and did not abide in the truth because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own, for he is a liar and the
father of it” (John 8:44 MKJV).

Again you have misused the scriptures. The Devil (Satan) became the Devil when he caused Eve to sin and then recruited 1/3rd of the angels and this
was the (new) beginning Jesus was referring to. Jesus was not referring to his original creation (Lucifer).

If God wanted everything He created to worship Him, He would have created robots to do His every will. Heck I can turn on a computer and make it
say "I love You" every morning. Is it meaningful? Of course not. God is LOVE and what does 1 Cor 13 say about LOVE?

1Co 13:4 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant
1Co 13:5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;
1Co 13:6 it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth.

Notice verse 5. God does not insist on His own way. You can follow Him or reject Him. But know that if you reject Him, He will reject you.

What about the nature of Satan? Satan hates mankind with a passion and would be happy to destroy us all. Heck even if we worshiped him, he would still destroy us. When you understand that little truth then many things become obvious.

What about the nature of Man? Man was chosen to rule with God (although I will probably be a cleaner) and down through the ages MAn has failed.
Jesus came as a Man and succeeded where other men failed. He died perfect so that we can choose to follow God willingly and without sin (imputed
righteousness). Men have died glorious deaths for Jesus to show Satan and the angels that Gods way is the only way.

Mat 25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Jas_5:20 let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
1Ti_1:15 The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.

Do you guys really believe that God will allow unrepentant men and angels in His house? Unrepentant Eternal man is a very dangerous creature and will
be in a prison that they cannot get out of. Spiritual mankind will have full access to Gods heavens and be able to instantly travel from place to place as
the angels can now. They will not have to speak to each other with the mouth, they will be telepathic. Also on top of this we will be fully creative.
Unrepentant creative creatures can wreck havoc in Gods House. He will place them where they cannot get out. You think like emotional girls when you
talk about people being tortured forever and ever. Place yourself in Gods position and think and reason like Him if you can.

The Rolling Stones wrote a song called "Sympathy for the Devil". Well he deserves zero sympathy and you are making excuses for him. God allows evil so that His Love can shine stronger but it would have been better if Adam had eaten from the Tree of Life and it would have been perfect if Lucifer had accepted his position in the Kingdom of God.

Steven, your letter is essentially a debate with yourself, indignantly arguing against your own misinterpretations of what’s been said in the cited article. You contend with your own confusion, enabled by strong delusion and perverted doctrines. You act so confident while being so wrong.

For example, you begin:

“Lets see if I can sort this out for you. You wrote

‘On the tenth day of the second month (February 10, 2015), I received a revelation that will surely cause a stir within nominal orthodox
Christendom and other religious circles.’

Unfortunately you didn't say who you got the revelation from. People can receive revelation from Satan as well as the Holy Spirit.”

But Victor did say. “By the Spirit of God, I declare to you that…”

This kind of presumptuous error sets the tone for the rest of your letter, wherein you make statements demonstrating totally blindness to our words and the Word of God.

“From what I am reading after this is Satan justifying himself as the fall guy instead of taking responsibility for his actions.”

Nowhere do we speak of “Satan justifying himself as the fall guy.” We do speak of how God will redeem Satan, just as He redeems Satan’s progeny:

“If any should be offended at the thought that the serpent will be redeemed, they are offended at their own salvation, for all have been the serpent – liars and murderers who have not deserved the mercy God has determined for them all….”

Do you disagree that Jesus Christ is the Savior of all men? It appears you do. Therefore you have a problem with the Bible, and not just with us preaching the truths of the Bible.

“For since death is through man, the resurrection of the dead also is through a Man. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive” (1 Corinthians 15:21-22 MKJV).

You say the following verse is speaking of Cyrus:

“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things” (Isaiah 45:7 KJV).

Is Cyrus the LORD? Is man God? Is Satan? No, the LORD is God, and He plainly says He makes all these things - past, present, and future.

“For I am the LORD, I change not…” (Malachi 3:6 KJV).

“Jesus Christ the same yesterday and today and forever” (Hebrews 13:8 MKJV).

The message is that God is completely running the show, contrary to your false doctrine of “free will.”

“For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him Who has subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God” (Romans 8:20-21 KJV).

“For God has shut up all in unbelief, so that He might show mercy to all” (Romans 11:32 MKJV).

Regarding the diabolical doctrines that you’ve been partaking of through the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and promoting here, we specifically answer them, if not entirely in the paper you cite, then certainly in the additional papers linked at the end. You spoke way too soon, not knowing what we preach. You can hear now, being alerted to your error, or don’t listen and remain ignorant and condemned by your arrogance.

“For you have trusted in your wickedness; you have said, No one sees me. Your wisdom and your knowledge, it has perverted you; and you have said in your heart, I am, and there is no one else” (Isaiah 47:10 MKJV).

The Origin and Identity of Satan
The Purpose of Evil
Satan’s Redemption
The Great Promise of the Lake of Fire and the Second Death
The State and Fate of Hell

You foolishly ask: “Do you guys really believe that God will allow unrepentant men and angels in His house?”

Again, we never said or intimated any such thing. And if any should come up another way (Matthew 22:12), they certainly won’t remain In God’s House. You’re living proof that the unrepentant aren’t allowed in His House. Here you are blaspheming Him and His House, thinking to represent Him as you do so. No excuse for this, Steve, as the Lord says:

“You shall not take the Name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His Name in vain” (Exodus 20:7 ESV).

And:

“Jesus said to them, If you were blind, you would have no sin. But now you say, We see. Therefore your sin remains” (John 9:41 MKJV).

No ordinary “guys” - we are humble servants of the Lord Jesus Christ, commissioned to convince the world of sin and call men to repentance,

Paul

I am not here to debate either myself or you. I posted because the Spirit of God moved me to. The Spirit of God has this to say to you 2 guys

Rev 2:1 "To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: 'The words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand, who walks among the seven golden lampstands.
Rev 2:2 "'I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false.
Rev 2:3 I know you are enduring patiently and bearing up for my name's sake, and you have not grown weary.
Rev 2:4 But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.

Hi Steven beck in first place the spirit of God.didn't ask you to say that !! who is to you 2 guys ? You mean victor and Paul and one more question repent? Revelation 2:5 KJV
[5] Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

The lord won't ask them to repent for said the truth.what happen is that you haven't ask God. Who really are victor and Paul
Acts 1:24 KJV
[24] And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men , shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

1 Corinthians 2:14-16
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them , because they are spiritually discerned.
[15] But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. [16] For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.


Steven beck I don't know you but I can't tell you that God.did not ask you to said that you are captured by the devil and because you won't receive the truth.and because of that
2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 KJV
[10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. [11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: [12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Jesus.also said
Matthew 13:19 KJV
[19] When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one , and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

You may think you know so mouch about the bible
James 3:15 -17KJV
[15] This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
[16] For where envying and strife is , there is confusion and every evil work. [17] But the wisdom that is from above is first PURE, then peaceable , gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

2 Corinthians 3:6 KJV
[6] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Jesus. said
John 13:20 KJV
[20] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

God.bless you Steve beck

you are full of nonsense.

Steven, you make the claim that God is directing you to speak to Paul Cohen and me. Do you honestly know that to be true? Do you not realize how serious a matter that is? Ask yourself:

Have you given us any substance to your disagreement with us...anything other than your opinion and personal interpretation of Scripture?

Are there 2 or 3 witnesses from God to confirm your accusations?

Yes, you give us Scripture, but how do you, by Scripture, justify your opinion of what it says? For examples, referring to Ezekiel 28, you say, “You can see from these passages that Lucifer was Gods ultimate angel of beauty until he became proud of his beauty and also corrupted wisdom.” You say, “Lucifer in his pride became jealous and plotted to make Man fall in which he succeeded.” Wherever do you find such in that passage or anywhere else in the Bible? You’ve been indoctrinated to find in Scripture that which is not mentioned or substantiated by it.

You come across as a young, proud, cynical, smart ass Bible student. Are you really all that knowledgeable, intelligent, virtuous and holy, Steven? Do you really receive revelation from the Lord or is it indoctrination from men? You need to ask yourself these things, but more importantly, you first need to get honest so that you can begin to consider honest questions and truthful answers.

Am I speaking “nonsense” to you, Steven Beck?

Hi Victor

Sorry for late reply but very busy. First of all I need to apologize to Jorge. I should have written "Not relevant" rather than nonsense.

Victor you wrote
"You come across as a young, proud, cynical, smart ass Bible student."

Wrong on all counts

Victor wrote
"Do you really receive revelation from the Lord or is it indoctrination from men?"

Let me ask you this. If I receive your teaching is it from God or Man?

Victor wrote
"Yes, you give us Scripture, but how do you, by Scripture, justify your opinion of what it says? For examples, referring to Ezekiel 28, you say, “You can see from these passages that Lucifer was Gods ultimate angel of beauty until he became proud of his beauty and also corrupted wisdom.” You say, “Lucifer in his pride became jealous and plotted to make Man fall in which he succeeded.” Wherever do you find such in that passage or anywhere else in the Bible? You’ve been indoctrinated to find in Scripture that which is not mentioned or substantiated by it. "

It is called revelation Victor. What did Jesus say in regards to revelation?
Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Mat 16:20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

Victor wrote
"Steven, you make the claim that God is directing you to speak to Paul Cohen and me. Do you honestly know that to be true? Do you not realize how serious a matter that is? Ask yourself:

Have you given us any substance to your disagreement with us...anything other than your opinion and personal interpretation of Scripture?

Are there 2 or 3 witnesses from God to confirm your accusations?"

Actually many witnesses since the many disagreements you have had with people on this blog who have told you how unloving and unkind you are to them. Yes it is a grave matter so you had better pray and meditate on these things.

While you are at that ponder these scriptures.
Isa 42:18 Hear, you deaf, and look, you blind, that you may see!
Isa 42:19 Who is blind but my servant, or deaf as my messenger whom I send? Who is blind as my dedicated one, or blind as the servant of the LORD?
Isa 42:20 He sees many things, but does not observe them; his ears are open, but he does not hear.
Isa 42:21 The LORD was pleased, for his righteousness' sake, to magnify his law and make it glorious.
Isa 42:22 But this is a people plundered and looted; they are all of them trapped in holes and hidden in prisons; they have become plunder with none to rescue, spoil with none to say, "Restore!"

Steven, you are a prideful, self-righteous man with a puffed up view of yourself, and you've spent too much time listening to blind guides. So much time in fact, you've become one yourself.

But know this, that in the last days, grievous times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, not lovers of good, traitors, headstrong, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God; holding a form of godliness, but having denied its power. Turn away from these, also. For some of these are people who creep into houses, and take captive gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, always learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Even as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so do these also oppose the truth; men corrupted in mind, who concerning the faith are rejected. But they will proceed no further. For their folly will be evident to all men, as theirs also came to be. (2Ti 3:1-9)

Steven, your folly will one day be evident to you, as it is evident to those here who have had their own folly already revealed.

Steven, whether you call Jorge’s answer “nonsense” or “not relevant” doesn’t make a whit of difference. Both are the same arrogant and dismissive answers of one who has nothing to back his argument.

Jorge was right - the Lord didn't give you to speak those words you claim He gave you for us from Revelation. You’ve been confronted on this twice and both times come up empty with no substantiation for your claims.

For example, you say to Victor that the Lord has given you revelation that the king of Tyre in Ezekiel 28 is Satan, along with Lucifer in Isaiah 14. But you have nothing to prove this except your opinion. And, the Word of God contradicts your opinion, identifying both of these men as earthly kings and not as the spirit at work in the children of disobedience, “the prince of the power of the air” (Ephesians 2:2).

Satan wasn’t a corrupted angel as you surmise. God created him the most subtle or cunning of beasts, as demonstrated when he lied to Eve (Genesis 3). Didn’t Jesus call Satan a murderer from the beginning, in whom there was no truth (John 8:44)?

Your revelation is contrary to the Scriptures, which means it isn’t from God.

“To the Law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because no light is in them” (Isaiah 8:20 MKJV).

Victor gave you the opportunity to recognize your error and the seriousness of it, asking if you had the requisite 2 or 3 witnesses required by God to confirm your accusations of us (the Lord’s words to the believers at Ephesus in Revelation 2). Your answer is revealing:

“Actually many witnesses since the many disagreements you have had with people on this blog who have told you how unloving and unkind you are to them.”

Many of God’s people wanted to crucify the Lord, and they did. Since when are the many right? Jesus said:

“Go in through the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many there are who go in through it. Because narrow is the gate and constricted is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it” (Matthew 7:13-14 MKJV).

You flow with the multitude who disagree with us because they don’t like what we say or how we say it, though none of you can disprove it. Don’t you know that numbers never make right? That’s Satanism, which you top off by presuming to speak from God. You're like the king of Tyre in this regard, and therefore the words you quoted apply to you:

“Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre, This is what the Lord has said: Because your heart has been lifted up, and you have said, I am a god, I am seated on the seat of God in the heart of the seas; but you are man and not God, though you have made your heart as the heart of God… See, I am sending against you strange men, feared among the nations: they will let loose their swords against your bright wisdom, they will make your glory a common thing… Will you say, in the face of those who are taking your life, I am God? But you are man and not God in the hands of those who are wounding you. Your death will be the death of those who are without circumcision, by the hands of men from strange lands: for I have said it, says the Lord” (Ezekiel 28:2, 7, 9-10 BBE).

You also bungled the meaning of the warning in the first verses of Revelation 2, which was given to those who left God as their first love - not those whom men judged as “unloving and unkind.” Like your father Satan, you savor the things of man, not God.

Victor was right about how you come across, Steven. So what if you’re older and not having your head filled with knowledge at a Bible school? All the more to your shame and condemnation that you’re so immature and behave self-confidently when you’re presumably older in the faith and should know better. You know nothing at all, and have never known the Lord Jesus Christ.

To Simon

Did you feel good writing your little put down of me? This seems to be TPOT's standard letter to anyone you people disagree with.

To Paul and Victor

I gave you my answers whether you agree with them or not.

To the TPOT team

The LORD (YHWH) rebuke you and I in turn shake the dust of my feet from being here.

Repent and rededicate your hearts to Jesus since it is not Jesus you follow.

Steven, what I wrote had nothing to do with feelings, and it was most certainly not my goal to put you down. All I did was state the truth about what I saw with what and how you communicated.
Why are you here, Steven? Is it to seek the truth, to fellowship with the body of Christ, or just to share your opinion with a bunch of people who you think walk in darkness. You are the one who has created a “me and them” mentality. Your words were “This seems to be TPOT's standard letter to anyone you people disagree with”. Who is, “you people”? I believe this is an open forum that anyone can register for. You registered just like anyone else. Sure, there are a few people here, like Victor and Paul, to name but two, whom, by the Lord’s grace, were responsible for creating this website, and who maintain TPOT website, but I suspect everybody else found the website by doing internet searches, more than likely, just like you. I have only been registered on the forum for about 6 months. So, what makes me one of the so called “you people”, Steven? Is it because you don’t like what I said? Why can’t I just be a person here seeking truth, like others. There are over 160 registered people on TPOT. Have we all already been categorized by you, Steven, as “you people”? If so, why would you be wasting your time here? If it’s not genuinely for seeking truth, then it must be purely to give your own opinion, or to show how smart you are, and how dumb everyone else is.
If others reading this, believe I am in the wrong, please speak up. Don’t let me continue in folly, if I am wrong. From my experience here, I know that love and truth abide with many people at this site, and I know that they will tell me the truth, even if it hurts my feelings. The truth is for all our good, whether we want to hear it or not.
So I ask you, Steven, when you wrote the following lines in your posts, were you not speaking from pride, arrogance, a place of one-upmanship, and even mockery?

Steven Beck wrote:“I have been reading some of your stuff and it is not bad but I have a problem with God appreciates Satan. To me you guys don't really have a proper understanding of the nature of our God or the nature of Lucifer/Satan. Lets see if I can sort this out for you.”.

“Unfortunately you didn't say who you got the revelation from. People can receive revelation from Satan as well as the Holy Spirit. From what I am reading after this is Satan justifying himself as the fall guy instead of taking responsibility for his actions. Where do we see this in life? Ah yes amongst sinners who are happy to believe that they are victims instead of taking responsibility. Anyway let us go on.”.

“ OK a couple of things here. First of all God did not "create" evil. You have twisted and misrepresented the scriptures. Who else does that? Ah yes Satan. Let us look at context.”.

“What is evil? Is it not anything contrary to Gods nature? So of course God knows evil since He knows that anything that is contrary to His nature and will is evil. Hey this is not rocket science.”.

“Well gee whiz. Satan at that time OWNED planet earth.”.

“You think like emotional girls when you talk about people being tortured forever and ever. Place yourself in Gods position and think and reason like Him if you can.”.

“Wrong on all counts ”.

This is not about doctrine, Steven, and it’s not about what you know or don’t know. You have an opportunity here to own the truth about yourself, and confess. This is the Lord’s judgement in action. Steven, don’t wipe the dust off your feet. Repent, and stay.

Lord, your will be done.

Amen, Simon! Well spoken and nailed. I'd say you are pointing a finger accurately at the three fingers pointing at Steven.

Amen! I appreciate your response, Simon. Above all, I can see the Lord's work with you in a relatively short time, not that time matters much, but He has certainly opened your eyes and ears by His grace, things that are totally foreign to Steven Beck in reality for now.

Amen Simon! Steven, the whole world believes that Satan was an angel before falling. The many movies and shows prove it. So are you saying that the whole world has a revelation from God? I understood this doctrine from youth,but had no knowledge of God. So did I have revelation or was I indoctrinated? You talk about God's love as if you have it,Yet you show no humility.If you have all this knowledge of the bible and receive revelation from God.Why can't you see scripture clearly?

Isa 45:5-7 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: (6) That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. (7) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Do you not see the last part of these verses? It plainly says I the Lord do all these things. You try to ignore this or divert the truth, by concentration on the definition of evil. Let's say you are right about the definition. What do you do with verse 7 that says " I the Lord do all these things". How can you say this was a Cyrus speaking.

Here is the reason you can't receive this truth. Is it not because you are the man of sin choosing to remain on the throne in place of God? Man by nature doesn't want to attribute God as the Sovereign King He is.

I see that it is taught here that Yahovah created evil. When you look at the verse that is purported to support that in the original language, with the help of the Strong's concordance, it can be readily seen that He very likely did not. Since we know from other scripture that He cannot be tempted with evil, and that all good things come from Him - no evil things - this understanding in the original language simply agrees with the rest of the scriptures, and with the experience of those of us that are coming out forever from darkness into the marvellous Light of Elohim.

Isa 45:7 I form3335 the light,216 and create1254 darkness:2822 I make6213 peace,7965 and create1254 evil:7451 I589 the LORD3068 do6213 all3605 these428 things.

H1254
בּרא
bârâ'
baw-raw'
A primitive root; (absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes): - choose, create (creator), cut down, dispatch, do, make (fat).

Here is how this verse should read:
"I form the Light, and cut down/dispatch darkness. I make peace, and cut down/dispatch evil. Yahovah does all these things."

It is interesting, to me at least, that the powers of darkness are seen in scripture sometimes as tree cutters. And here we see that Yahovah cuts them down, too. We know this is what He does for His faithful.

Also, scripture tells us that sin came into the world through Adam. To teach that Yahovah put it here is a contrary teaching. It is true that Yahovah tests everything that He has created. He wants us to know that we know that we are in Him, if we truly are in Him. It's for our benefit, and joy, not for evil. When we see ourselves passing the tests, like refraining from eating of the knowledge of good, and evil - a mixture, and double mindedness - we are encouraged to know that we are truly in our Savior.

Attributing evil to our Maker is not good. What else can one say?

David, here's the Hebrew word translated "evil" from Isaiah 45:7:

H7451
רעה רע
ra‛ râ‛âh
rah, raw-aw'
From H7489; bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun: - adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease (-ure), distress, evil ([-favouredness], man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief (-vous), harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief, (-vous), misery, naught (-ty), noisome, + not please, sad (-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked (-ly, -ness, one), worse (-st) wretchedness, wrong. [Including feminine ra’ah; as adjective or noun.]

David, who planted the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, the word "evil" being:

H7451
רעה רע
ra‛ râ‛âh
rah, raw-aw'
From H7489; bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun: - adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease (-ure), distress, evil ([-favouredness], man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief (-vous), harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief, (-vous), misery, naught (-ty), noisome, + not please, sad (-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked (-ly, -ness, one), worse (-st) wretchedness, wrong. [Including feminine ra’ah; as adjective or noun.]

So just what kind of evil are we talking? And Who created it?

And who created the subtle serpent, the tempter (Genesis 3:1)?

In conclusion, God has not come to do evil for evil's sake, as you seem to suggest we teach, nor are we chosen and sent as His servants and sons to do evil. He has subjected us to vanity, unwillingly (Romans 8:20), that we might learn to resist and defeat evil with good, and darkness with light.

David, let's look at some context in the verses you quote, starting with Isaiah 45:7.

"I form the light, and create H1254 darkness: I make peace, and create H1254 evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7 KJV+)

Verse 8 goes on to say:

Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; the LORD have createdH1254 it. (Isaiah 45:8 KJV+)

And verse 12 says:

I have made the earth, and created H1254 man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
(Isaiah 45:12 KJV+)


And finally verse 18 says:

For thus saith the LORD that created H1254 the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created H1254 it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
(Isaiah 45:18 KJV+)

So you can see that in each instance in this chapter that H1254 is used, the same meaning in English applies. In fact, of the 54 instances the Hebrew word occurs in the Old Testament, only twice is it translated "cut down" (in Joshua 17:15, 18) as the context dictates.

The Strong's definition you quoted makes this point clear:

Bara is "a primitive root; which means (absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes)." In other words, only when the context qualifies, can "bara" mean to cut down. If you claim that it means "cut down" in verse 7, you would then have to conclude that God "cuts down" heaven, earth, man, salvation, and righteousness. Is this not so?

Can you see the logical conclusion of your interpretation?

"Truly You are a God who hides Yourself, O God of Israel, the Savior. " (Isaiah 45:15 MKJV)

Sean

Hi Sean!
I am no linguist! I am glad to have tools to look at meanings of words in scripture! I have found understandings of passages that are not widely held, or held at all to my knowledge. Whether I understand it, or not, however, this Word rules over all creation forever! It is forever settled, and Yahovah has placed His Word above His own Name.

The fact that Elohim has placed tests in this wilderness land is evident. The powers of darkness are His army, programmed to continuously look for, and inhabit ground to manifest their nature, and character from within, ultimately to the destruction of their inhabited. The open door of sinful words, and behaviour is a call to them to come, and take up residence. That behaviour, and resultant stronghold of the demonic, gone undetected, and unrepented of in a believer, will lead to more sin, and destruction just like it will for a pagan. Our heavenly Father does not want us, His children, to be destroyed, and He has made a way, a covenant Way, for His children to detect this intrusion into their lives before it gets to a destructive level.

A believer walks in peace, repented of all known sin. They believe for total removal of every sin that they repent of, and they are guilt free, and experience no condemnation. They are willing to repent of anything as it is brought to their attention because they love Elohim more than anything. This is the land of peace promised to all of those that truly believe. But when a believer loses that peace, it is because our heavenly Father has allowed the powers of darkness to take some of our peace. He has allowed it because creation is set up this way. Sin in our life has attracted a demon that takes a little of our peace from us. This loss of peace is the very gentle way that we are to find out that we have sinned, and need to repent of something. This is good news to those of us that want to be washed of all sin, and also avoid the associated destruction! So we ask the Father what we have done so that we can repent of it, and get free of it. And in His time, He does it. This is the path of salvation, and few there be that find it. And it is all by faith in Yahshuah, and by grace so that no one can boast.

Also, a mature man has his senses exercised to discern both good, and evil. It is not when you are able to see both for what they are that you have eaten from the tree of the knowledge of good, and evil, so to speak. It is when you agree with the lie that you can do both, and not reap destruction.

Having said all of that, and with you bearing with me, I will try to answer your question. We are saved out of the wickedness, and destruction of sin by Yahshua when we appropriate that by faith. But, we know that scripture warns us that it is possible for us to be drawn away from, and/or to fall away from that faith. So it was with Lucifer, who knew not sin even at his creation, and yet fell away from that good estate. Having been created in perfection, and goodness, he turned away from the faith, and became known as Satan. Had we known him before he was lifted up in pride, and rebelled against our King, we would have embraced him as our brother. But, we deliberately disassociate ourselves with him today even as we disassociate ourselves from false preachers, and teachers that may have started out on the right path, but have drifted into unrepentant falsehood. This is no fault of Elohim!!!!! Elohim contributed nothing but goodness, and love to this, and was given evil in return. I understand that you are not purporting to tie our Maker to evil doings, but you are at least getting so close to that that one does not want to go there with you.

When I read scripture, I want to know how the teachings there will conform me to being like my Savior, and my heavenly Father. Since my Savior went about overturning, cutting down, dispatching the works of darkness, I readily accept the proper translation of this text, as I have laid out here. The fact that associated sentences in this text do not use this particular meaning of the word does not make it impermissible use it there with that meaning. And it is just like something that my Father would do to hide a thing from the wise, and learned, and reveal it only to his little children.

David, you say, "Since my Savior went about overturning, cutting down, dispatching the works of darkness, I readily accept the proper translation of this text, as I have laid out here."

Obviously, you make the reference to the Hebrew word "bara" (H1254) found in Isaiah 45:7, 8, 12 and verse 18, and Genesis 1 that we've discussed.

Did God "cut down" the heavens and the earth, as your reasoning must conclude?

"In the beginning God created ("cut down") the heavens and the earth"
(Genesis 1:1 MKJV).

It's obvious you haven't seriously considered the strong evidence, the testimony of the Scriptures Sean has brought forth. Such a reaction suggests a lack of peace because it is a defensive one - ignoring evidence against one's position. Why do you cling so tenaciously to your position in spite of the contradiction of your doctrine? Because you have no peace.

Jesus Christ is the Prince of Peace; He gives it to those who are His even though they are in this world where they have tribulation. The thief, on the other hand, comes to steal, to kill and to destroy.

Who is this thief, if not Satan, the adversary? Who is he, if not the destroyer? Who is he, if not the serpent?

Now, what is the origin of the serpent?

"Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, Is it so that God has said, You shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" (Genesis 3:1 MKJV)

The Lord God created the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. He created the serpent, and He created him as being subtle, which trait the serpent immediately and successfully exercised on Eve, as foreordained of God.

Do you honestly read what others have to say or are you too "mature" a child of Elohim to pay attention to the "wise and prudent"?

Did you seriously consider what Sean put forth for your benefit, or are you consumed with keeping your peace without sure foundation, even the Prince of Peace?

I suggest you reconsider your dug-in position and read:

http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings ... -satan.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

The word study shows that sometimes it means "create", and sometimes it means "cut down, dispatch". In the context of the very consistent nature, and character of Elohim, I choose the understanding that most agrees with that, and that brings Them the most honor. If you wish, we can test our understandings the same way that Elijah, and the servants of Baal tested to see who was right. The kingdom of Elohim is about power. How would you like it proved to us? I am a learner, and am willing to suffer to learn the Truth. What will you endure?

David, I see you’ve made the following statement about God (at https://redeeminggod.com/good-pagans/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;):

“He is the One that can drop 100 pound hailstones right on anyone He pleases whenever He decides to, and He deserves to be held in the highest reverence just on the basis of His power alone!”

Obviously you agree that God creates evil (calamity), which is what we’ve been telling you. So why are you arguing with us - why are you contrary to the Truth?

"But the wicked are like the troubled sea, which cannot rest, and its waters cast up mire and dirt. There is no peace, says my God, to the wicked" (Isaiah 57:20-21 MKJV).

I should have said, "He is the One Whose Word, which rules the universe, allows 100 pound hailstones to be dropped at places, and upon persons that His Word prescribes."

If I am "arguing", or contending for the absolute goodness of Elohim, then I am found in a very good place, don't you agree? Having done all that They might, and stooping down to every person to invite them to consider their ways so as to avail themselves of all of Their protections, and making available to every person the knowledge of how things are forever set up here on this planet, Elohim has done nothing but good. Those that reject Them have been given the freedom to do as they wish while having all opportunity to understand the consequences of those choices, and those that receive Their words, and take them to heart benefit eternally from doing that. Everyone chooses blessings, or curses as they see fit. If one fails to investigate, and determines to ignore Their ever present calling to them, they've chosen their own end result. Elohim has done nothing but good in all of this! Elohim has not subjected them to evil! Persons have subjected themselves to evil, in spite of all of Elohim's workings to keep them from that.

The kingdom is about power, as I mentioned before. If you are sure of yourself, let's put it to the test!

David, I'm bringing this conversation to a close here. I've approved your last two entries not because you have anything remotely of value to be said for the Kingdom's sake, but to let others have the opportunity if they so desire, to answer your proud foolishness and to hear the Truth of our replies.

You persistently refuse to answer our questions and objections, though we have answered you and asked you to cooperate. You pontificate and have no intention of listening to and considering us. You presume to be the "anointed of God" who knows it all while despising us as though we have nothing to offer you. You think we are obligated to give an accounting to you but you don't feel any obligation to us.

You, David, are not in your right mind, even as a human being, much less as one who professes faith in HIM, not "them."

As to your Elijah challenge, I have no fear of you or your challenge. I already see you jumping up and down on your altar, brashly shouting to be heard by both man and God. We are not the least afraid of you.

But I go further now. Lord Jesus, rebuke this damned fool and let all those who need to know, know that You love us. Show this member of the synagogue of Satan his folly and cause him to worship before our feet. Amen! Thank You, Lord Jesus. Be fed up with him, according to Your Word to me.

"I will make those who belong to the synagogue of Satan - those who claim to be Jews and aren't, but are lying - come and bow down at your feet. Then they will realize that I have loved you." (Revelation 3:9 ISV).

In plainer language:

"And watch as I take those who call themselves true believers but are nothing of the kind, pretenders whose true membership is in the club of Satan--watch as I strip off their pretensions and they're forced to acknowledge it's you that I've loved" (Revelation 3:9 MSG).

David, after reading Victor’s last response to you, I saw you as a type of King Nebuchadnezzar. Where in Daniel 4:30 Nebuchadnezzar glorified and praised himself for the physical kingdom he thought he built, you, here, without knowing it, glorify yourself and the spiritual kingdom you’ve built for yourself via a false gospel. And as Nebuchadnezzar was brought to naught by the mighty hand of God, you too, for your good and for the glory of God, will be brought to naught.

The king spoke and said, “Is not this great Babylon, which I have built for the royal dwelling place, by the might of my power and for the glory of my majesty?” While the word was in the king’s mouth, a voice came from the sky, saying, “O king Nebuchadnezzar, to you it is spoken: ‘The kingdom has departed from you. You shall be driven from men; and your dwelling shall be with the animals of the field. You shall be made to eat grass as oxen. Seven times shall pass over you, until you know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomever he will.’” This was fulfilled the same hour on Nebuchadnezzar. He was driven from men, and ate grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of the sky, until his hair had grown like eagles’ feathers, and his nails like birds’ claws. At the end of the days I, Nebuchadnezzar, lifted up my eyes to heaven, and my understanding returned to me, and I blessed the Most High, and I praised and honored him who lives forever; for his dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom from generation to generation. All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he does according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and no one can stop his hand, or ask him, “What are you doing?” At the same time my understanding returned to me; and for the glory of my kingdom, my majesty and brightness returned to me. My counselors and my lords sought me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent greatness was added to me. Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and extol and honor the King of heaven; for all his works are truth, and his ways justice; and those who walk in pride he is able to abase. (Dan 4:30-37 WEB)

And after it’s done, and the Lord brings you to your senses, as Nebuchadnezzar knew, you also will know, that it is the Lord that does His will, and none can stop his hand, not even Satan, whom the Lord created.

"To the TPOT team

The LORD (YHWH) rebuke you and I in turn shake the dust of my feet from being here.

Repent and rededicate your hearts to Jesus since it is not Jesus you follow."

How can one who is so blind possibly direct and lead those who are given to see? Who are you to call any to repentance when you've never done so yourself? Here is what I have for you, Steve:

"For with whatever judgment you judge, you shall be judged; and with whatever measure you measure out, it shall be measured to you again. Matthew 7:2 MKJV.