A Tare Defends His Idol

[Ronnie Tanner]

This is a correspondence from our archives. We have sent notification to the correspondent.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: I would like to ask a question.
From: Jafod A.
To: The Path of Truth
Date: 6/2/2015 9:54 PM

You yourself have stated as such: "directly opposing the True and Living God, the Lord Jesus Christ, in your zeal for good works. You've been walking in all self-righteousness, following another Christ you've learned from men." about Clayton Jennings.

I have read through your statement of belief, and numerous other pages. What I am seeing is that you are doing exactly what you are stating up above: "Directly opposing the True and Living God, the Lord Jesus Christ, in your zeal for good works. You've been walking in all self-righteousness, following another Christ you've learned from men," It is plainly visible to a third party that you are incapable of practicing what you preach. I can even see it in your page of 'Falsehoods' with how you claim to know what God thinks about obscure subjects.

So, my question is this: what gives you the right to choose who are false teachers, when you yourselves are plainly going against your own statements. You are acting in your own self-righteousness, so why do you think that gives you the right to pretend to be better than others?

I have listened to a few Catholic sermons, a few Mormon, some reformed church, have read up on the teachings of Calvin, and have even read some of the Q'ran, Hadith, and other books of law in the Muslim faith. All of them have issues with the Bible, and from what I'm seeing, you are too.


From: Paul Cohen
Sent: Friday, June 05, 2015 11:26 AM
To: Jafod A.
Cc: 'Victor Hafichuk'
Subject: Re: I would like to ask a question

"What I am seeing is that you are doing exactly what you are stating up above: 'Directly opposing the True and Living God, the Lord Jesus Christ, in your zeal for good works. You've been walking in all self-righteousness, following another Christ you've learned from men,' It is plainly visible to a third party that you are incapable of practicing what you preach."

Proof, Jafod?

"I have listened to a few Catholic sermons, a few Mormon, some reformed church, have read up on the teachings of Calvin, and have even read some of the Q'ran, Hadith, and other books of law in the Muslim faith. All of them have issues with the Bible, and from what I'm seeing, you are too."

Such as? (And show us by the Scriptures how we're wrong.)

Paul


From: Jafod A.
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 6:26 PM
To: Paul Cohen
Subject: Re: I would like to ask a question

"God had created Evil as a necessary experience for man's spiritual education and growth"

This states that God, the very definition of Good, created evil. I'm going to say it here: there is one thing that God cannot do, and that is go against his own nature. We know that it is within God's Nature to be good, but in order to create evil he himself would have to be evil. Evil was brought about by Satan. Satan was called Lucifer beforehand, and this is backed up by verses in the Bible, and it also speaks of him being the first to do evil. Here are those verses, with direct quotes:

Ezekiel 28:17; "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I put you before kings, That they may see you," in reference to the King of Tyre, being compared to Satan's pride.

"No one comes to God unless God draws that person and establishes a relationship by His gift of faith, and His grace (power) enables the putting away of sin and keeping of His Law"

What you are saying here is that God chooses who comes to Him. That means that you are saying man has no free will, and that God doesn't truly want all mankind to come to Him, only the select few (which I'm sure you count yourself among). You are saying that God is Exclusive, and not inclusive to ALL of His children (His children still include the non-believers). This very statement means that Jesus's sacrifice was not for all of mankind (which you very clearly state in another of your doctrine statements that He did die for all of mankind) and is in fact only for a few.

"Satan is a deceiver who counterfeits God's works, coming as an angel of light. God created him as an adversary to the saints, and agent assisting in the winnowing and processing of mankind."

I already went over this above, but I will change how I state it. You are saying that God created a being of Evil for the purpose of evil.

Allow me to make a statement: Just because God knew what His creation was going to do, doesn't mean that He intended for it to do so. He knew that mankind would eat from the forbidden fruit, but He did not intend for them to. He knew that Satan, once called Lucifer, the Angel of Light would get caught up in his own pride from his wisdom and beauty, but He did not intend for it. Now, we know that He did not intend for it due to His nature.

Let's look at His nature, as described to us by the Bible:

1. God is love.
2. He Never Changes. Ever.
3. God is Light. There is no darkness in Him.
4. His anger is short-lived, and His favor is for longer than a lifetime.
5. He never tires.
6. He is infinitely patient
7. He is infinitely powerful.
8. He exists everywhere all at once: no matter the time or place, as He is not bound by time.
9. He is all knowing.
10. He is Merciful.
11. He is filled with grace: I don't know about you, but I'd have a hard time turning my back on my own son and letting all of the punishment for all of the evil in the world to befall him.
12. He is patient.
13: He is holy.

I'm sure that you already know all of these things, which is why I am finding it so difficult to understand where you are getting some of your statements of doctrine from. Some of these statements are saying that God, who is Holy, created something Unholy. God, who is Love, never mind just loving, somehow is only willing to bring specific people in to experience that love. Somehow, God who is Light, with you darkness within Him, created darkness. Somehow God, who is filled with infinite Grace and Patience, only calls to a few. He knows who will answer His call, but He calls everyone all the same.

There is also something disgusting about your 'false teachers' page. You are acting like hunters who stuff the heads of their prey and hang them on a wall. Walking through and taking names (both literally and figuratively). I understand that some of them may very well be false teachers, but you are condemning them by your own faulty set of requirements. How do I know that they are faulty? Some of them are man made, not God led. Instead of taking names, and putting them up there, you could give the people the means to find false teachers on their own.

Jesus talks about false teachers, and they are mentioned throughout the Bible. We are told to be wary of them, and to watch for them. You may be watching for them, but the rest of the people aren't. Why? Because all they have to do is ask you. They have instantly lost a chance for them to grow spiritually by you doing this. We are all supposed to watch out for False teachers by looking at the Bible, and using that to understand whether or not a suspected person may be false or not. The Bible is more literal than people think. The only part that is not literal would be Psalms, which are songs and poems (chiefly written by King David). What you are doing, is taking it a step too far.

You have also not answered my question: what gives you the right to choose who are false teachers?

From: Victor Hafichuk
Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2015 9:01 PM
To: Jafod A.
Cc: 'Paul Cohen'
Subject: Re[3]: I would like to ask a question

Jafod, you write:

"I have listened to a few Catholic sermons, a few Mormon, some reformed church, have read up on the teachings of Calvin, and have even read some of the Q'ran, Hadith, and other books of law in the Muslim faith. All of them have issues with the Bible, and from what I'm seeing, you are too."

But you of all people have no issues with the Bible? Is that so? How pious, wise and clever of you! And just what issues is it we have? Do you really know? Read The Origin and Identity of Satan,The Purpose of Evil, The Good News, and Whose Will Is Free?

"For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him Who has subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God" (Romans 8:20-21 KJV).

You need to read many of our writings, but you need repentance to understand them.

You also haven't answered our questions.

Victor and Paul


From: Jafod A.
Sent: June-27-15 2:02 PM
To: Victor Hafichuk
Subject: Re: Re[3]: I would like to ask a question

Firstly, I never stated that I have absolutely no issues with what is said in the Bible, however, that doesn't mean that the Bible is incorrect merely because I disagree with it. To think so would be prideful, something which I work very hard to avoid becoming. Something which you are coming across as with how you are seemingly speaking down to me. I have already pointed out numerous things within your doctrine.

Now, allow me to elaborate your not practicing what you preach. You said this: "you're also directly opposing the True and Living God, the Lord Jesus Christ, in your zeal for good works. You've been walking in all self-righteousness, following another Christ you've learned from men."

Direct quote from you. Apparently you have conversations just like this one with 'False Teachers', and from what I am seeing in your responses, you are acting like children.

"Wow! We have a hero on our hands, do we, Clayton? And you're graciously willing to grant us the glorious privilege of praying for us, even as you summarily dismiss us from your highness's presence!"

And:

"No, as you say, you don't know either of us. Neither do you know the Lord Jesus Christ, and He doesn't know you."

So, this brings me back to my very first question: Who are you to go about claiming false teachers, and who are you to claim who Jesus knows and doesn't know? You claim to know Him, and He you, and yet from everything that I am seeing, the only thing coming to mind is disappointment. You're acting like children trying to make a father proud in all the wrong ways. Once again, yes, Jesus does say to watch for false teachers, but where does He say to mark down their names to be put on display for all to see? Where does it say to NOT teach other people how to watch for false teachers themselves?

I have looked at your website, and it claims: "What is important is that one learns to discern truth from error."

I looked through what you think tells a person what a false teacher is, but no matter how I look at it, or how many other people I have look at it, it speaks how God sees a false teacher, but it doesn't teach us how to find a false teacher. You say that they are ordained by God, not by man, and yet you do not show us what that means, other than God has either chosen a person to be a teacher, or deemed someone shouldn't be. You are leading people astray by denying them the opportunity to spiritually grow and learn by basically saying: let us measure him up by our doctrine, and well tell you.

Basically, what I am trying to say is this: You are denying people spiritual growth, you yourselves have proven your own immaturity by responding as children to a mature response to a direct attack on them (the Clayton Jennings example, and how you have been responding to me) and you are leading people away from God: you are merely attacking these people, pretending to be heroes, spouting off scripture as though it were made specifically for you to use. You yourself state that the dark side (Satan, Demons, misled People, etc...) use limited truth to get what they want. Now, you use scripture the same way that Satan tried to use the scriptures to try and attempt to tempt Jesus in the desert. You are not Fulfilling God's work: you are fulfilling your own selfish, prideful desires.

I can see at this point that, much like a child, you will continue to argue with me and refuse to accept that you may have made mistakes, or may be wrong. You are so prideful that you will not even think that perhaps you aren't doing it right. I am sorry to see that this is what 'Christians' are becoming, and I can now understand why we, as a whole, have such a negative reputation. Our negative reputation isn't coming from us following our scriptures so closely, but because we follow it so loosely. I will end it here, and I sincerely hope that you will open your mind. I'll be praying for the both of you.


From: Victor Hafichuk
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 11:17 AM
To: Jafod A.
Cc: 'Paul Cohen'
Subject: Re[5]: I would like to ask a question

Jafod,

In your first letter to us, you said that we are doing what we told Clayton Jennings about himself, "You've been walking in all self-righteousness, following another Christ you've learned from men."

How do you know the difference between man's falsehood and God's truth? How do you know that what we teach is of men or of God? You don't. And when we ask you to specify and prove your accusations and judgments, you have nothing substantive to say. It's all your judgment and opinion, which is anti-Christ (all opinions of the Lord are automatically so; no exceptions).

You charge, "You have also not answered my question: what gives you the right to choose who are false teachers?"

Jesus Christ is Who (not "what") has given us the right - not to choose, but the right and duty to identify, false teachers.

We certainly believe we have answered you, at least at our site if not here; however, we will answer again in a different way:

"Who are you to go about claiming false teachers, and who are you to claim who Jesus knows and doesn't know?"

Only one foolish and darkened enough to ever believe Clayton Jennings is a member of Christ's Body would ask us such questions. To the saints, Jennings is quite obvious as a tare, a false one, but not to other tares - they prize him as authentic. And he is - an authentic tare - just like them, transforming themselves on the outside to appear Christian.

The saints of God are Christ's Body with His Mind, and are able to judge all things, as the Scriptures plainly declare. However, the Bible also says, "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Corinthians 2:14 MKJV). That's Paul speaking of you, Jafod.

We are His express servants, ministers with His Spirit. That's who we are. We know whom He knows and are given to beware of false brethren, prophets, and teachers. How else can we heed His warning of such unless He gives us to know who is false? It takes revelation of God for us to know these things. And since He wants His sons and daughters to know, He freely gives us to know, for our sake and for His glory.

"You claim to know Him, and He you, and yet from everything that I am seeing, the only thing coming to mind is disappointment."

You aren't seeing the invisible, the reality. With Jennings, for example, you see the sheep's clothing but you don't see the wolf wearing it. Do you think anyone can tell true from false without the spiritual gift of the discerning of spirits? What need then would there be for that gift if one can judge after the appearance?

But you don't have the gift of discernment because you don't have the Spirit of Christ. That gift enables one to look past the appearance and see the reality. Without Christ, you're deceived, Jafod, and that's why you contend with us:

"He who is of God hears God's Words. Therefore you do not hear them because you are not of God" (John 8:47 MKJV).

We know these things by your words - you live in the fictional or theoretical, man's traditional Christian walk, the false one.

"You're acting like children trying to make a father proud in all the wrong ways."

And who has set you up as judge, Jafod? How is it you accuse us of the very things you're guilty? Who are we? Do you know? Do you know if we are Christ's or not? Shall you judge by fruits? What fruits? Your brand and Jennings' brand of love, the False Love - Satan's Last Stronghold? You are putty in Satan's hands and in this you think to be worshiping Jesus Christ.

We have no need or desire to "make our Father proud." We only do our duty and having done so, consider ourselves as unprofitable servants. For you to speak in such terms again exposes you, a fleshly devotee to the prince of this world who comes as an angel of light through his ministers, Jennings being one of a multitude.

But you worship Clayton Jennings, a skilled deceiver, a charismatic mercenary, a glory-seeker, a wannabe hero, a vain user of Christ's Name, though he claims otherwise. Being false, why wouldn't he claim the right and deny the wrong? Think about it; better still, beg God to reveal the truth to you because if you continue in your darkness, you perish.

"Once again, yes, Jesus does say to watch for false teachers, but where does He say to mark down their names to be put on display for all to see?"

How selfish and foolish a question is that? So we should know a wolf for ourselves but we should say nothing to others - let them be deceived and destroyed as you, or find out for themselves? Is that what you think Jesus Christ would have us do? Think again. Furthermore, do not the apostles name those who opposed them, especially when they did so in His Name? Are you not aware?

"Where does it say to NOT teach other people how to watch for false teachers themselves?"

"You say that they are ordained by God, not by man, and yet you do not show us what that means, other than God has either chosen a person to be a teacher, or deemed someone shouldn't be."

Again, we teach that people must have the Spirit that they might have the power to watch for false teachers. The natural man such as yourself sees nothing without the Spirit. As well, we give many indicators of falsehood; we point out markers that give false teachers away; here are some informative links:

Diabolical Doctrines (section)
The True Marks of a Cult
False Love - Satan's Last Stronghold (section)

"You are leading people astray by denying them the opportunity to spiritually grow and learn by basically saying: let us measure him up by our doctrine, and well tell you."

John 7:16-18 MKJV
(16) Jesus answered them and said, My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me.
(17) If anyone desires to do His will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it is of God, or I speak from Myself.
(18) He who speaks of himself seeks his own glory, but he who seeks the glory of Him Who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him.

How well have you done by yourself, without our help, in finding who is true and false? Have you grown in righteousness while following false teachers? Whose righteousness?

"Now, you use scripture the same way that Satan tried to use the scriptures to try and attempt to tempt Jesus in the desert. You are not Fulfilling God's work: you are fulfilling your own selfish, prideful desires."

Again and again, we give you substance, but all you give us is... opinion. How would you know what is God's true work and what is counterfeit, which claims and only appears to be true?

"I am sorry to see that this is what 'Christians' are becoming, and I can now understand why we, as a whole, have such a negative reputation."

You know and understand very little. The world hates the truth. Jesus said it was so. He also warned that His disciples would be hated and would suffer a "negative reputation." Paul says that all those who live godly in Christ Jesus would suffer persecution - not be popular models, heroes in self-made movies, T-shirt merchandisers, posing for pictures, handing out autographs and doing selfies.

Haven't you red these things in Scripture? Put away your Bible and get a Real One.

"I'll be praying for the both of you."

How about praying about us? How about calling out to the God of Heaven, the Lord Jesus Christ, asking Him to speak to you and tell you who we really are, instead of presumptuously, foolishly appealing to Him on our behalf to change, assuming you know anything at all of us...or of Him, for that matter? See what He has to say about this. Wouldn't that be the very first and best thing to do?

Jafod, do you really think it would be wise of us to believe you? On what basis? Who are you to judge us and tell us how we are wrong or what we ought to do? You aren't anointed; you're ignorant of the Scriptures and their power; you aren't a believer, except of Jennings and other wolves.

So go your way and be deceived and devoured, if you insist. We will go on in the solemn, yet delightful duty of doing the Lord's will, warning the unwary and teaching the teachable.

Victor and Paul