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Subject: C3 church " the prince of this world" article OH HOW WRONG YOU ARE
From: Graeme
To: ask@thepathoftruth.com
Date: 7/5/2015 8:29 AM

Hi

I am a Christian from Perth Australia, but I have recently moved to Bali Indonesia. I have been attending C3 Church in Renon Dempasar Bali Indonesia for approx 7 months now. I attended the Churches fifteenth birthday celebration this morning. There was an excellent turnout of people, the extra large turnout was the children and parents from the C3 elementary school, the church provides schooling for 120 children from the poorest Balinese family's.

Whilst the Pastor was delivering his sermon, I was astounded by a young Balinese girl (appox 10yrs old) seated beside myself. The child and her companions had opened their Bible to the page relevant to the Pastors sermon from Corinthians. She was reading word for word from the New Testament. They then listened intently to what the Pastor taught.
Bravo, praise The LORD.

The Pastors sermon and teachings were relevant to the teachings of the gospel ofJESUS CHRIST.
We all prayed in CHRIST'S NAME.
We sang praises to JESUS.

Christians are very few and far between among the indigenous Balinese. An island predominantly Hindu, but now containing more and more Muslims coming from the surrounding islands (Indonesia Worlds largest Muslim nation). To convert a Balinese Hindu or Muslim to Christianity usually evolves Christ's new convert being disowned by their family, friends and anyone from the Hindu or Muslim faith. They pretty much loose everything to start a fresh life with Christ our LORD.

I can only say "Praise The LORD" for giving Bali Indonesia the C3 church.

I can say (with authority I believe) thank GOD for Pastor's Wayan, Gayle Dwije, their associated pastors, church elder's and all the church helpers for their tireless efforts in teaching the LORDS HOLY word in a Christian minority nation such as Indonesia
They have had an extremly hard struggle since their beginning and still have.

After reading your very negative article about C3 Churches I can only feel compassion for the ignorance of the author of the article. He has generalised about this church group from a reveiw of a website. A Christian enterty such as yourselves, to title a web page " prince of the air" is shamefully unchristian at best, to infer it is some kind of a cult is looking for judgement from the LORD. JESUS said that his followers would be persecuted. YOU the owners of the website are persecuting C3 Church Bali incorrectly by displaying the article on your website. How unchristian. Not all will be saved come judgement day, I will pray for you and the author of the article that you in future may judge fairly (not that it is yours or any other Christians right to judge but CHRIST'S alone)

The teachings of C3 Church Bali have brought me closer to JESUS than any other Church. Churches in the West appear to me to be full of Lukewarm Christians and pastors.

C3 Church Renon Dempasar Bali is alive, it is dynamic, it is a family and it is all these things plus many more in the name of our Lord and Saviour JESUS CHRIST.

Your brother in CHRIST
Graeme

From: Victor Hafichuk [mailto:victor@thepathoftruth.com]
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 1:38 PM
To: Graeme
Cc: 'Paul Cohen'
Subject: Re: C3 church " the prince of this world" article OH HOW WRONG YOU ARE

Am I wrong? Do you know?

“And they shall be Mine, says the LORD of Hosts, for the day that I will make up My treasure. And I will pity them as a man has pity on his son who serves him. Then you shall again see the difference between the righteous and the wicked, between him who serves God, and him who does not serve Him” (Malachi 3:17-18 MKJV).

Hello Graeme!

Believe me I understand exactly what you’re saying and how you can say to us, “OH HOW WRONG YOU ARE.” I also know assuredly that one day I will have to give an account for my every word spoken and every deed done. Therefore, if I am truly opposing the Lord’s brethren, I may as well get a rope and hang myself from the nearest beam or bough and quit the harm I’m doing.

You have no idea how I’ve struggled concerning this matter over past decades, and every time I do, the Lord brings me around and causes me to realize some very important facts:

One, those very people in accepted Christian circles are among our greatest foes...they have taken up enemy positions, not because I attack them, but because of the truth we preach that IS the Truth and must be spoken to all. They despise, mock, fear and shun me. And they perish in their sins and blasphemies, while the Lord stands with me all the way.

Two, notwithstanding some good works and truths, almost all of Christendom teaches heinous doctrines - lies from the pit of Hell. God doesn’t send messengers, His ministers for good to preach such lies. You teach them there (Diabolical Doctrines).

These doctrines make God out to be an impotent Savior when teaching that only a few out of multitudes He has created in His image will be saved in the end of the ages. How pitiful a Savior is that?

They make God out to be a liar when teaching that His Law actually DOES change in that they have changed the Sabbath day from the 7th to the 1st day of the week and when they say He was only 1 day and 2 nights at most in the grave when He said He would be dead for 3 days and 3 nights.

They make Him out to be a 3-headed freak, when the Bible teaches thus, “Hear, O Israel, the Lord your God is One Lord.”

They make Him out to be a hideously insensitive monster with doctrines like eternal torment and damnation. You, being evil, would never relegate your own children to horrific suffering forever and ever (I don’t suppose), yet most of these so-called ministers of Christ teach that God, Who is good, would do such a thing to billions created in His image.

They make Him out to be a fool, celebrating pagan holidays in His Name and even in a pagan goddess’s name.

The list goes on.

When He brings salvation by the new birth to an individual, I’d say at least 99% of Christendom resents it deeply. Many of these presume to be born again, yet the Lord has revealed to me that they don’t know Him and He doesn’t know them. They don’t have His Spirit, despite claims and appearances.

But don’t these many people produce some good things? In my days just before Christ, I was corrected on my search path by a Catholic uncle who calls many men “Father,” and who is now a priest, being called “Father,” contrary to Christ’s command.

I was led to repentance toward the Lord by an evangelical who opposed the baptism in the Holy Spirit. This was before I had ever heard of Spirit baptism.

Then I was led to be baptized in the Spirit by a Mennonite, a man who fellowshipped in Pentecostal/Charismatic circles, who refused the Lord’s call to “come out from among them and be separate.” He handed me a booklet by R. A. Torrey, called The Baptism with the Holy Spirit.

As well, there were Prophetic Words from the Lord for me over the years through many people in those circles. How then should I in good conscience find fault with them? But I do, yet not I, but the Lord, Graeme.

Many have knowledge; many have gone part way; many are great workers; many have laid down their lives, for Christ and the Gospel apparently; many are fine people in society - friendly, kind, helpful, decent living, giving and loving. I can’t argue with any of these things. Yet, I do because of what the Lord has shown me.

One of the major prophecies that came over me at a men’s prayer breakfast meeting in I975 was by a man in Charismatic circles by whom the Lord said, among many other things, “You will see more than other men,” and “Don’t try to understand Me.” Other independent prophets spoke similar things.

After several years, His Word turned out to be true. Now the Lord requires that I speak what I’ve learned. I see all these churches and Christian leaders playing games, building their own kingdoms, not at all pleasing the Lord, and the Lord is not in their midst. I see it. This goes for C3, one of so many thousands of churches.

Doesn’t good come from some of their teachings? Surely. I received good, as related, but here’s the trap: Someone once said the greatest obstacle to the next step in faith is the one just taken. When I was converted, George Lynn took me to a Missionary Alliance church. They, and later, Southern Baptists, taught me I was saved and had everything from the Lord and that I only needed to grow in Him. After all, my life had dramatically changed for the better; I came from despising the Lord to loving Him.

The evangelicals, with their pastors and elders, suggested it was Satan persuading me to doubt my salvation and to overthrow my faith. But they were wrong. By a quiet but persistent inner voice, the Lord kept assuring me I needed to go on, that “I wasn’t there yet.” Step by step, many people and churches opposed my path but the Lord was Faithful and True.

I see many people trapped in these churches with a false sense of security, deceived into thinking all is fine with the Lord when to me and my wife and friends in Christ, it’s clear they’re wrong.

So while your Muslim 10-year old appears to have taken a step in the right direction in Indonesia by the works of C3 (not saying it genuinely happened), is it indeed a good thing? Or will she be indoctrinated with error and stalemated in the end? Will the Lord prevail in her life and bring her on, even as He did me, despite the beautifully friendly and compassionate “Christian” opposition, or will she remain a captive of the harlot system, Mystery, Babylon the Great?

I must speak out against these camouflaged death traps; I must speak up against these wolves in sheep’s clothing who, with all cunning and knowledge of the Scriptures, misrepresent the Lord and His will for mankind; I must speak up against those who are sufficiently capable to deceive, if it were possible, even the elect of God. How much more might they deceive a young girl, or one like yourself who doesn’t know or understand the things I’m talking about?

Graeme, you judge after the appearance, and the appearance is deceptive. Unless you have the gift to discern spirits and the wisdom to know those who are God’s and those who aren’t, you will be deceived; there’s no other way.

You write, “The teachings of C3 Church Bali have brought me closer to JESUS than any other Church. Churches in the West appear to me to be full of Lukewarm Christians and pastors.”

I believe many things you’re saying and don’t doubt your sincerity. I agree with your judgment of the churches in the West; they are all lovers of pleasures seeking social benefit. None seek after God; none are interested in true repentance and walking by faith. I’ve been with and in them. Have you? I wholeheartedly agree.

The West, Graeme, is dead. And woe to the West because judgment is already inside the door, slaying and plundering and the people don’t even know it, just as it was in Noah’s day, everything seeming normal.

Perhaps it’s easy for me to speak where I live, and I might not be so quick to speak as I do where you are with serious persecution. Talk is cheap, yet I know that even here, any day could be my last. We have murderous Muslim jihadists right here in our cities. Our website is fully transparent, divulging our doctrine and personal details. They could kill me and my family and friends any time, anywhere. And it’s not only Muslims that would take my life if they could.

We just had a 44-year old male visitor, a businessman from Perth who attended C3 and many other churches for many years - 20 or so. He was greatly troubled, full of sin, crying for help. They couldn’t help him at C3. The Lord helped here. He confessed his sins, which were grievous; he has repented of them. The Lord delivered him of a tormenting devil, and now he sets out to make things right as the Lord has instructed him - hard things, yet he has determined to do them and I’m persuaded God will supply the grace. He was a changed man within 2 weeks and I can only hope and pray he will remain changed to ever worship the Lord Jesus Christ in spirit and in truth.

Several are blessing the Lord whereas at one time they had no hope. We are preaching against the churches that people have found vain and empty, and their captives of Satan are coming to be healed, delivered and taught of God.

Why couldn’t this brother from Perth get help from C3? He asked for prayer, they prayed for him and nothing happened. Why was he compelled to grab a flight here to this side of the globe, after reading our site and our judgment of C3, if C3 is doing the sure work of God, if God is in your midst redeeming souls?

Yes, we do judge - righteous judgment, our duty as Christ’s true ministers to do so. You can’t say it’s not the place of a true servant of the Lord to judge; you haven’t known the ways of the Lord and His Body, including His ministers who have His Mind and are one with Him in His judgment of the world.

I have learned and considered all these things by His grace, Graeme. What have you considered? Are there things I’ve written today that might alert you to crucial need? I think so. Our answer is the Lord Jesus Christ. Truly talk these things over with Him and see what He has to say. We need to hear it from Him.

Victor

From: Simon Hall [mailto:simonhall126@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2015 8:21 PM
To: Graeme
Cc: 'Victor Hafichuk'; 'Paul Cohen'
Subject: C3 church " the prince of this world" article OH HOW WRONG YOU ARE

Hi Graeme

Simon from Perth, here.

My questions to you are, how did you come to The Path of Truth website? What did you type into your internet search engine that helped you arrive here? I suspect you didn’t type “C3” or “Who opposes C3 Renon Denpasar”, into your internet search engine.

You say, “The teachings of C3 Church Bali have brought me closer to JESUS than any other Church. Churches in the West appear to me to be full of Lukewarm Christians and pastors”.

Why do the churches in the west appear to you to be full of lukewarm Christians and Pastors? Do you know this because you have been a part of some of those churches and you know that they are all the same, only each one with a different name above the door? Are they lukewarm because they don’t practice what they preach, in that they don’t really reach out to the poor and less fortunate, unlike C3 Renon Denpasar who do?

Don’t be deceived Graeme! There are many non-Christian organisations around the world that give to the poor and less fortunate, have structures in place to feed, educate and improve the general lives of those people. Don’t even Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt along with many other wealthy and well known people do these things?

Doing the above things does not make one a true follower of Christ. Even atheists do these things.

Graeme, you came to our website because you are still searching for the Truth, the reality of our Lord Jesus Christ. If any C3 church, including Renon Denpasar, had everything you are looking for, or could answer all the things that don’t make sense to you, you would have no need to be looking outside of the C3 organisation for answers.

These things I do know because I also was once a part of C3, Hillsong and the COC (Christian Outreach Centre). Too many things just didn’t add up for me. I had a lot of questions that no one in any of those organisations could answer.

I was waiting painfully for years for answers to the many questions I had. I would come and go from different churches over the years, hoping that there would be a Pastor or a church group with new revelations and some answers for me. But, it was always the same. Things just never seemed right. After a year or so of bouncing around from website to website in 2012 / 2013 looking for those answers, the Lord led me to The Path of Truth through a blog war link at another website that I was reading at.

The first time I red here, to me, there was some good things being said, but I thought I could see some harshness, ungodly judgement, legalism and self-righteousness on the part of the authors. It turns out, I was the one that didn’t have the eyes to see or ears to hear the truth when it was being taught. Thankfully, the Lord kept drawing me back to The Path of Truth despite myself. Graeme, I was reading here for roughly 2 years before I made myself known to Victor, and then through Victor, to others here that worship in spirit and in truth. I was watching from a distance to see if I could find things that were wrong with the teachings, or anything else for that matter. I had been saying to God for 20 odd years, “Reveal the truth to me no matter what the cost, Father”. Well, He is doing exactly that, just not how I had envisaged Him doing it. The Lord has brought me here to judge me and save me from sin and hell, hell being the state of my life and not some place where people go when they die if they don’t believe in The Lord Jesus Christ.

Judgement begins at the house of God, 1 Peter 4:17 and God’s judgement will bring all men to true Repentance.

Graeme, you say, “Not all will be saved come judgement day, I will pray for you and the author of the article that you in future may judge fairly (not that it is yours or any other Christians right to judge but CHRIST'S alone)”. Graeme, I used to think the same as this. Once upon a time I would have said exactly the same thing. If you look at the following scriptures honestly, don’t they raise doubt as to what you believe in your statement above?

1Ti 2:3 for this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour,
1Ti 2:4 who will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Or

1Co 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
1Co 15:20 But now Christ has risen from the dead, and has become the first fruit of those who slept.
1Co 15:21 for since death is through man, the resurrection of the dead also is through a Man.
1Co 15:22 for as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive. 1Co 15:23 but each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming;

For more on this truth, read The Reconciliation of All Things

And these Graeme, from 1 Corinthians…….

1Co 6:2 do you not know that the saints shall judge the world? And if the world shall be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 do you not know that we shall judge angels, not to mention the things of this life?
1Co 6:4 If, then, you truly have judgments of the things of this life, set those who are least esteemed in the church to judge.

Or

1Co 2:10 But God has revealed them to us by His Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11 For who among men knows the things of a man except the spirit of man within him? So also no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 But we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit from God, so that we might know the things that are freely given to us by God.
1Co 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is judged by no one.
1Co 2:16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.

If you are honest with yourself and with me Graeme, you would have to admit that these verses from the Word of God don’t match your thinking. So who is right Graeme, you or the Lord?

Graeme, I hope that you don’t let your offendedness from your visit here at The Path of Truth, stop you from receiving the truth that has now been spoken to you. I pray for your sake as well as the Lord’s, that you will read the links I gave you, among others you find here, and that you will be given the eyes to see and the ears to hear. Lord willing, it will be your time, in His ordering of things.

In the Lord’s Name and most certainly not my own.

Simon Hall

Graeme replied to Victor's letter:

From: Graeme
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 1:20 PM
To: Victor Hafichuk
Cc: Paul Cohen; Simon Hall
Subject: Re: C3 church " the prince of this world" article OH HOW WRONG YOU ARE

Victor,

I stand firm in my words " OH HOW WRONG YOU ARE" .

I have spent the better part of Sunday and Monday reading your website, in particular your ebook.

Many many things I am in full agreement with your perspective, the Roman Catholic Church ( the harlot), Saturday being the true Sabbath, Baptism in spirit are a few.

I do not doubt your intentions, in trying to expose so called Christian organizations for their either poor performances or totally leading their people (sheep) astray from our LORD and savior.

You know the evils of this world are very real. The average persons life in Western society rarely gets touched by pure or extreme evil especially not for prolonged periods of time.

Do you know what satin is capable of? Have you personally been touched by pure evil and saved by The Lord? Do you know what evil can come to a family if a family heirloom being a Holy Bible that has been handed down for generations falls into the hands of pure evil. An evil group of people with a grudge from another religion and culture. It's not pretty and doesn't just affect one family member. Let me testify, evil is real, the occult or blackmagic as indigenous Indonesians know it is very very powerful and real, but so to is the power of our LORD JESSUS CHRIST.

If you are wondering no I don't do drugs or alcohol, I haven't for many many years and no I don't do occult activities.I am mentally sound.

Many of the realizations(in your writings) you came to, I came to within a year. I had too find answers and fast.

You don't know me or what I have been through.
You don't know my brother and his family in Australia or what they are going through.
You don't know my family and children in Bali Indonesia and what they have gone through.
You have never met, Pastor Wayan or been to the C3 Church in Dempasar Indonesia. Have you?
Have you heard Pastor Wayan preach?
Yes Pastor Wayan does full immersion water Baptism.
Yes I can go to prayer meeting with Pastor Wayan on Saturday morning and keep the Sabbath.
No he doesn't solicit for money, his church is very poor (struggles to survive).
Yes I felt the Holy Spirit enter my life (a feeling of pure peace).

But YOU feel YOU can judge him and his church. On what basis and what authority do you judge.

Pastor Wayan, he is a man of GOD, sincere in what he does. But as he professes is he is JUST A MAN.

I am wittiness and I truly testify that you will see things happen in his church that I have never seen or witnessed in a Western Church. The Holy Spirit is active in his Church. Indonesia is a cruel cruel place.

When Wayan converted to Christianity from Hinduism, he received death threats, was disowned by his family. He, his wife and child had to flee from their house in the middle of the night, over a fence to avoid the executioners that had broken into their home.

I am sorry sir but in this particular case YOU ARE WRONG

I may also mention that I don't know what C3 does in their Western Churches my only dealings is with Pasor Wayan at C3 Bali Indonesia.

Pastor Wayan truly saved my life and I am hoping he can stop the evil that is currently disrupting my brother and his family. It's funny but the precise things that I went through are now happening to my brother. I am a believer in GOD, and always have believed. Two years ago I was a cold to lukewarm Christian. My immediate problem is that my brother and his wife are atheists. My brother knows what happened to me and has said "what curse have you brought upon us". We have talked and he believes blackmajic is real. He has questioned what is happening to him is exactly what happened to me. What he doesn't know is an extremely evil group of Hindus are performing Blackmagic on him using our fathers fathers HOLY BIBLE.

In summing up your article about C3 it should not include C3 Bali Indonesia. If you are truly a Christian with the spiritual maturity you profess as having, pray for Pastor Wayan, that he may save more lost and damaged soles. Pray that Pastor Wayan can stop the suffering. Pray for my brother and his family in Australia. Pray for my children in Bali Indonesia.

Have power courage and pure 100% conviction in doing CHRIST the LORDS work

Victor a personal note: I don't know you as you don't know me personally. I have read through your biography, memoirs. If your written word is 100% pure, honest and I think it is
Your worst enemy appears to be yourself, you procrastinate and self doubt. Don't live in the past please. You were kicked around badly by so called Christians that weren't prepared to let GOD develop his special gifts in you. BUT YOU WON or should I say GOD WON.

Elements of your email reply dated 18/07/2015 reek heavily of your memoirs of 1977, sorry but its true.The LORD has far more important issues that require your good writing skills and sound Spiritual maturity than you writing replies as below. Uuummmm write a web page giving humanity GODS veiw on Sodomy and homosexuality.The Bibles pretty clear on that point.Western Church leaders arn't jumping saying what the bible is saying WHY? Write a web page on GODS veiw of what is happening to Christians in the Middle East . Do you know although Western Christian leaders have condemned the slaughter, only the Russian Orthedox Church via Vladima Putin have sent people over to try to put an end to Christian Slaughter, funny how Western leaders (arms suppliers) do stuff all.

GOD gave you a calling and some very special spiritual gifts, don't dwell on the past, empower yourself for the many battles of the future. And GOOD LUCK with your many victories that you must win for CHRIST.

Oh and bye the way my Muslim 10 year old was in actual fact a Balinese Hindu girl and it did genuinely happen.

"So while your Muslim 10-year old appears to have taken a step in the right direction in Indonesia by the works of C3 (not saying it genuinely happened)."

Graeme

Pps Simon Hall thanks for your email, but I won't respond too it.

I replied:

From: Paul Cohen [mailto:paul@thepathoftruth.com]
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 8:03 AM
To: Graeme
Cc: 'Victor Hafichuk'; 'Simon Hall'
Subject: Re[4]: C3 church " the prince of this world" article OH HOW WRONG YOU ARE

Hi Graeme, Paul Cohen here.

How can you stand firm with nothing under your feet? You casually dismiss the truths that refute your contentions and conclusions about C3. We have shown how these churches are not of God and now you’ve heard personally about how your defense of them is wrong, but you avoid the substantive arguments with deflection, accusation, and personal opinion. None of which is valid before God.

You say: “I may also mention that I don't know what C3 does in their Western Churches my only dealings is with Pasor Wayan at C3 Bali Indonesia”

Are you trying to tell us that the C3 church in Bali has no relationship to the C3 organization, and that it renounces its namesake’s grievous errors and unChristlike ways? If so, why does your church remain under the C3 banner, and furthermore, why are you permitted to by them? Have you kept your disagreement with them secret?

If your church doesn’t renounce the errors of C3 and walk contrary to its antiChrist practices and mindset, then you are indeed part of the same tree. Regarding this, the Lord says:

“A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit” (Matthew 7:18).

We have never seen otherwise, whether it’s with the Catholics who claim they truly worship Christ, despite the errors of Rome, or the SDA’s who say they worship God, despite the problems at their main office, or on and on. They’re all mistaken in thinking they’re different and aren’t on the paths of the destroyer.

“Concerning the works of men, by the Words of Your lips, I am kept from the paths of the destroyer” (Psalms 17:4 MKJV).

I went to your local C3 church website and Facebook page and see no differentiation (or claim of one) between them and the main C3 churches. This means that all your anecdotal stories don’t mean what you think they mean. You are deceived; your church isn’t of God.

You assume things about us that are wrong and have nothing to do with the issue at hand – the presumed legitimacy of C3 churches as a work of God. You avoid this issue because you have no proof we’re wrong about your organization and only seek to defend your status before God via your leader. This is another demonstration that your religion is manmade, because you justify man and yourself, not God.

You ask us:

“Do you know what satin is capable of? Have you personally been touched by pure evil and saved by The Lord?”

Apparently you haven’t red Our Testimonies, Victor’s story (wHaT tHe LoRd HaS dOnE wItH mE), or much of anything on our website. You have the facts at your fingertips, so why don’t you investigate these matters for yourself? If you had discernment from the Lord, you certainly would, and wouldn’t ask us to testify of ourselves because you would receive your answer from Him.

Victor brought up this point about you finding out from the Lord – “Our answer is the Lord Jesus Christ. Truly talk these things over with Him and see what He has to say. We need to hear it from Him” – but no acknowledgement or answer have been forthcoming from you, Graeme.

Here’s more of your presumptuous dismissal of us based on wrong thinking:

“Do you know what evil can come to a family if a family heirloom being a Holy Bible that has been handed down for generations falls into the hands of pure evil. An evil group of people with a grudge from another religion and culture.”

Have you ever considered that the reason your family is vulnerable to evil through their heirloom is because they are in sin? Otherwise, how could any evil come your way through a physical object? Is God not over all? If a bird doesn’t fall to the ground without Him, what power does any physical thing have with Him? And if the curse causeless doesn’t come, why do you focus on the curse rather than the cause?

Whether it’s Hindu pagans or the sophisticated “Christian” devils we deal with daily, what are any of these to Christ? You seem to acknowledge this in your next statement:

“Let me testify, evil is real, the occult or blackmagic as indigenous Indonesians know it is very very powerful and real, but so to is the power of our LORD JESSUS CHRIST.”

So whose power is greater?

1 John 4:1-4 MKJV
(1) Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but try the spirits to see if they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
(2) By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God;
(3) and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the antichrist you heard is coming, and even now is already in the world.
(4) You are of God, little children, and you have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.

Why are you being abused by devils, if the Lord’s power is greater? Because He isn’t in you. You aren’t His child. That’s why you identify with your unbelieving family and thereby suffer the abuse they have attracted to themselves in their sin.

And how is it your pastors don’t discern or know these things and tell you? Because they haven’t taken up the cross themselves. They are yet in the dark.

Matthew 10:34-38 MKJV
(34) Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth. I did not come to send peace, but a sword.
(35) For I have come to set a man against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
(36) And a man's foes shall be those of his own household.
(37) He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
(38) And he who does not take up his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me.

You boast of “Pastor” Wayan doing full immersion water baptism. So what? Churches all over the world have baptized millions, fully immersed. Where are all the believers and fruits of faith? Have you not red what the Lord has taught us about Water Baptism?

So what if you meet on Saturday morning and keep the Sabbath. The SDAs (Seventh Day Adventism) do the same thing and are the children of Satan.

You say that Wayan and Gayle don’t solicit for money, and their church is very poor, even struggling to survive. Then what are they doing trying to raise $1,000,000 USD by this year (2015) to buy land and erect church facilities? (Church vision - http://www.c3bali.org/images/Vision2010_Print300dpi.PDF" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.)

I’ve looked at Wayan’s and Gayle’s website, and see nothing at all there to indicate they’re serving the Lord. It’s the same spirit and religious approach found everywhere in the world, regardless of the persecution they face for being a different religion than the Hindus on your island. The Muslims too are going after nominal Christians in many places today. These aren’t true believers facing persecution. They’re heathen targets of The Muslim Scourge God has sent on the earth for judgment.

And where do you find women xpastors in the Scripture (“Pastor” Gayle)? Will you not consider and answer a single thing we say? Or more to the point, that the Lord Jesus Christ says - see the Diabolical Doctrine: Women Are Ministers of God in Spiritual Authority over Men.

What of all the other lies your church is teaching, many listed in the link (Diabolical Doctrines) Victor gave you?

You ask Victor regarding your pastor: “But YOU feel YOU can judge him and his church. On what basis and what authority do you judge.”

On the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ we judge, as He has given us. Who are you to question His righteous judgment? We’re not against you or your pastor and his wife, but you’re all against Him and yourselves according to your ways. That’s why you’re defensive and justify yourself.

For your leaders’ sake, share our website with them, letting them hear what the Lord has given us. If we’re wrong, they will surely have a witness from God to correct us. But if they’re wrong, then they will have the opportunity to see the error of their ways and repent, “coming out from among them.”

This we know: If they hear Him, they will also hear us.

“We are of God. He that knows God hears us; he that is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error” (1 John 4:6 EMTV).

Simon Hall said many true things to you, and has been where you are, yet you piously dismiss him, too, as if his testimony of God means nothing. What a fine Christian you are, kindly thanking Simon as you fortify the gates of hell!

Let US now ask YOU: “Do YOU know what satin is capable of?” It’s apparent you have never known the Lord Jesus Christ, Graeme. You’re deceived and unless you repent, you will be destroyed in your sin.

Paul

Dear Gentlemen,
I'm not familiar with the C3 church and had to look it up on the internet. The Father called me out of the institutional churches over a decade ago, but when I was new to the faith, I was in church. Mostly a mega church, but after a while, I was wanting to learn a whole lot more about the Bible and how to live the life that God wants us to live, and couldn't seem to find that kind of teaching there. So I tried about 20 other churches over a period of years, to no avail.

My difficulty was that I was reading the Bible diligently, cover to cover, every year. I was wondering why no one was teaching all the things I saw in the Word. I tried to hard to find a place that would teach all of it.

Nonetheless, at that point in time, the churches I attended were helpful to me in some ways, and it was the place that I started on this journey. So if the Father might have Graeme and his family in that particular C3 church, and if he is in his Bible day after day, reading, rereading, and studying it; and teaching it to his wife and children, we know that those are very good things.

If there is a church out there that teaches us about the cross and the death that WE have to carry and go thru, that's a church I could get behind. If there is a church that expounds on how we have to actually lose our lives (Mt. 16:24-27), forsake all that we have (Lk. 14:26-33), and die to self and to flesh (Rom. 8), all of us would probably support that. If there is a church that gives detailed teachings on how righteousness is attainable if we only believe it (Rom. 6), that our hearts and minds can be purified (Jn. 1:47), we can be filled with the fullness of God (Eph. 3:16-20), be partakers of His holiness (Heb 12:10), who wouldn't want to be part of that?

Honestly after a very diligent search, I could not find a church that did any of that. The most important things are: Love God, Love Others. Love works NO ILL to one's neighbor. Are we there yet? If not, why not? Rom. 13:10. Have we died to self and to flesh yet? Do we hate sin yet? If not, why not? We are told to "awake to righteousness and sin not". Paul, 1 Cor. 15:34. That's what the "new man" is all about. 2 Cor. 5:16-18, Eph. 4:22-32.

Are we willing to suffer? Maybe even suffer under the hand of an unjust/unfair boss? 1 Pet 2:18-25. Well, that's the Christian walk. Are we hearing about all that in church? If not, why not?

Does the C3 church endorse women preachers? Seems like "mama Chris" might preach? Not sure. But honestly, didn't Paul address that in 1 Tim 2:11-12? Are some women exempt?

In any case, church is not a building, it's a people. They are few. The path is narrow, and very, very painful, involving much loss and sorrow. Mt. 7:13-14. This journey is not a cakewalk. The suffering involved is required. Few escape it. Job didn't. David didn't. Christ didn't. The Apostles didn't. Suffering serves to humble and purify us, purge us of "self". Deut 8. That's why He tried the Israelites in the Wilderness. To purge them. So important! Isaiah 1:25. His hand on us is amazing: painful, horrible, and wonderful all at the same time.

God is not impressed with "form over substance". He is not interested in "vain oblations", fancy forms of "worship", emotions, feelings. Isaiah 1:11-15. He just wants us to get clean. Is. 1:16-26.

We have to know that love is not an emotion. It's a set of about 15 flesh-crucifying behaviors that our natural man has just about zero interest in doing. I Cor. 13:4-8. That's part of the cross. Our cross, that is. God is love. Are we like Him yet? 1 John 2-4 are good chapters on love also.

If there is a church that teaches the whole counsel of God, how to get cleaned of the filth of the flesh man, die to self, love others as Christ loves us, and be willing to chuck it all, just because He asked (and He did, it's all over the NT), that's a church we can get behind. Assuming there aren't a bunch of false doctrines, etc... in there.

As for someone using an heirloom Bible as an amulet for black magic, well, a Bible could just be another book, to someone who doesn't believe or obey it. It's not magic in power in and of its physical self. It's not holy in and of its physical self, the actual paper and pages that is. It's the Word of God that's in it, if read, studied, believed, understood, and obeyed. Did Graeme's grandfather know the Book intimately and obey it? If so, that's wonderful. But once out of his hands, unless it is heeded, it's nothing to unbelievers.

Jesus quoted the "Isaiah curse" (Is. 6:9-10) in Mt. 13:13-35: most folks have eyes that don't see, ears that cannot hear, they do not understand, are not converted, and He cannot heal them. So if most church folks, most professing christians, have not been given eyes and ears, sadly, they are not converted and Christ has not healed them. We hope and pray that that will someday soon no longer be the case.

If we are in church and full of emotion, loving the music, singing songs and feeling great, well, that's probably our flesh man, carnal. God is not receiving that. Rom. 8:1-15. God hates flesh, and worse, flesh hates God. This spiritual journey is a quietly painful one. God doesn't play when it comes to purifying His kids, the ones who say "yes, send me" when He asks.

Sorry to write so long. Let's get on our crosses. We have everything to lose, but we have Him to gain. He is so worth it.

Hi everyone! Here is the introduction of a post by "BornAgainBride1":

"Hello Victor Hafichuk,

Below is the following post that needs approval:

Dear Gentlemen,
I'm not familiar with the C3 church and had to look it up on the internet.
The Father called me out of the institutional churches over a decade ago, but when I was new to the faith, I was in church. Mostly a mega church, but after a while, I was wanting to learn a whole lot more about the Bible and how to live the life that God wants us to live, and couldn't seem to find that kind of teaching there. So I tried about 20 other churches over a period of years, to no avail.

END of intro; to be continued when the writer replies.

BornAgainBride1, while I appreciate having the opportunity to reply to this post, are you not aware that we require your proper name and not just an email address? Have we not emailed you to inform you of that requirement? Perhaps you'd like to tell us why you choose to not identify yourself?

Aha! I found out how to respond to your question!

Hi Victor,
I sent you 2 emails also in hopes of getting a response to you. Then I found a link in your email to "1808" and clicked on it! Voila I am here.

My name is Sarah Jeremiah. I have no ulterior motives in not giving my full name. I do not recall getting an email from your blog requesting it, but of course have no problem giving it. I did get several emails from your blog, and since I am not computer or technology savvy, I just probably missed your request for my name .

Anyway, I'm a family physician working in the USA. I at one time had a home, husband and family, and a career, but lost all that for the Kingdom. After 6 years of full-time ministry, I was poor, homeless, car-less, credential-less (workwise that is), and my parents took me in. They asked me to find a job, and so I did, and ended up moving about 800 miles away to a new city back in 2013.

The Father allowed me the opportunity to have a little You Tube ministry, a Bible study for ladies, called BornAgainBride. Hence my "handle" for this blog, since I couldn't think of anything else, and was not aware that people use their actual names. So sorry! In You Tube world, people use catchy names, I suppose. I also have a Facebook ministry called Charleston Christian, also a teaching site. I used that moniker since I was not familiar with FB, and didn't want to take any risks re: personal safety since I was a woman alone.

I hope that helps clear the air. I have nothing to hide and have no ulterior motives. Anyway, thank you for asking .

Hi Sarah,

Welcome to ThePathofTruth Forum. No problem at all for any complications. We're still learning ourselves.

How did you find us? Now that we have some technical details taken care of, we can proceed with edifying conversation.

If you red Victor Hafichuk’s Testimony or wHaT tHe LoRd HaS dOnE wItH mE, you’ll find that the Lord spoke to me in March of 1976 to call me out of institutional or formal churches and to leave them behind as I was leaving my own dung behind. Isn’t that strong language? Very. Therefore, what was once of use, then processed and passed/past is no longer of value; in fact, it is vile, as is human dung.

You say, “So if the Father might have Graeme and his family in that particular C3 church, and if he is in his Bible day after day, reading, rereading, and studying it; and teaching it to his wife and children, we know that those are very good things.”

It’s true the Lord took me through various church systems, but as He did, it was to learn that He had cast them off and they had cast Him off. Dead works:

“Concerning the works of men, by the word of Thy lips I have kept [me from] the paths of the destroyer” (Psalms 17:4 KJV).

Was it a matter of something good having been fulfilled in my life through men’s works and therefore of no more value for me personally, and now dung, yet good for someone else? Was that the case for the apostle Paul, who red the Bible daily, and was, as touching the Law, blameless, being a Pharisee of Pharisees, a zealous achiever for his God, all of which he counted as loss, as dung, for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus, his Lord?

So is it only dung for the apostle Paul and me or is it dung for all who earnestly value the Messiah? Paul and the apostles before him proceeded to call people out of those systems. Do you think Nicodemus, for example, could remain a ruler of the Jews and a Pharisee because of “very good things” or do you think he would see the writing on the wall when coming to faith?

After all, he had to come to the Lord under cover of darkness to hide himself from the powers of darkness that would have condemned him for coming into a living relationship with the Messiah. He was subject to, and a member in good standing of those powers; he knew he couldn’t mix unclean with clean. You can’t serve God and mammon (the world and the flesh).

Sarah, God hates mixture with a passion. No, dung is dung. I can’t touch it and no matter where anyone is in their walk, they can’t touch it either, not if they wish to be clean. It’s that simple.

You may say Saul hadn’t professed belief in the Messiah as a Pharisee but Graeme Smith does. Can one conclude by Graeme’s speech that he actually believes on the Lord? Didn’t the Lord warn us to pay attention to fruits and not the words... “In vain do they worship Me with their lips”? Hundreds of millions are professors of faith in Christ, yet they don’t know Him and He doesn’t know them...and He tells them so.

In this, His Day, we declare by Him and on His behalf that He doesn’t know them. They don’t like to hear it and persecute us for it. Do true Christians persecute, Sarah?

Is not C3 an institutional church, one of those you say the Father directed you to leave? If they are good, and if He remains with them, why does He ask you to leave them? Think through the implications. Ask the Lord to give you enlightenment and clear thinking. He calls you to obedience, not profession; He calls you out of the environment of disobedience so that you may not be deceived by mere profession.

Jehovah’s Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists, 2 more obvious examples of many erring institutional congregations also spend much time “in [their] Bible day after day, reading, rereading, and studying it; and teaching it to [their] wives and children.” They also profess to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. But what will the Lord say to them and so many others? So, DO we know that those are very good things,” as you say?

Can we not liken an institutional church to a tree? Can a tree produce both good and bad fruit? And what about the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil? Can one not gain much good knowledge there? Yet, doesn’t that tree bring death?

You know the answers to all those questions, Sarah; you have no need of my giving them to you. Yet, you walk and talk as though Satan’s knowledge and power are of value. I can’t blame or condemn you because I’ve been there; I’ve struggled with these things all my life, but the Lord has made Himself, the Truth known to me, to deliver me from Mystery, the harlot and from the power and influence of her husband, the prince of this world. And now we teach others.

You need to learn, not teach, even though you recognize the truth that women are not to teach or to usurp authority over men. You need to leave the teaching of women and children to those who have come through the cleansing fires, those who have been established in the Truth that they might “rightly divide the Word of Truth” and not inadvertently lead any astray in subtle ways through lack of knowledge, preparation, and anointing of the Lord. You aren’t anointed.

You say, “If there is a church out there that teaches us about the cross and the death that WE have to carry and go thru, that's a church I could get behind.”

Then do so. Here we are. And we declare to you that where there is no cross and death to self preached, there is no faith, for the gift of the faith of God and true heart repentance can only come by the cross of Christ.

So how can you then commend Graeme Smith or C3 when the cross of Christ is nowhere to be found there? Knowledge, yes, Bible study and reading, yes, doctrine, yes, but the cross? No. If the cross were present, there would be no C3 as it stands and impudently displays itself; there would be no institutionalized church with all its worldly paraphernalia. And the members such as Graeme would hear us - those who are with Christ without the camp – and would have agreement with God’s true Church.

Sarah, understand 2 things: We have nothing personal against Graeme Smith or any of the people there at C3, but in the Lord, we have plenty against them because He has plenty against them. He has nothing to do with them and that’s because they are entirely against Him, though they profess to worship Him. This last part seals their condemnation – “Jesus said to them, If you were blind, you would have no sin. But now you say, We see. Therefore your sin remains” (John 9:41 MKJV).

The second thing is this: You have yet to take up the cross yourself and therefore you are full of contradiction. Read, repent, seek the Lord Jesus Christ, Whom we faithfully serve, about what we say, take it in and deny yourself, forsaking all, including and particularly your works you value highly. WE call YOU to the cross you declare is so necessary, which it most certainly is.

You say, “If there is a church that expounds on how we have to actually lose our lives (Mt. 16:24-27), forsake all that we have (Lk. 14:26-33), and die to self and to flesh (Rom. 8), all of us would probably support that.”

Not at all; you are dead wrong, unless we misunderstand who “all of us” is. Are you talking of those who have never known the cross? Are you speaking of all those people who take pleasure in institutionalized churchdom? Are you speaking of carnal Christians? Did you not know the flesh abhors the cross? Did you not know that man, by his very nature, will believe every lie possible, no matter how bizarre or outrageous, before he believes the Truth, which he refuses to believe? Men will do many and various works, cleaving to a form of godliness, but they won’t not come to the cross except by God’s saving faith in Christ:

“But if I, brothers, still preach circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been removed” (Galatians 5:11 ESV).

Or are you talking about genuine Christians, who could only be such because they have already taken up the cross? Sarah, do you not contradict yourself?

We are hated because we preach repentance from sin, denial of self and taking up the cross, forsaking all. We are hated, not “supported,” except by those who have taken up the cross and discovered the only way one can ever be a true believer, a “Christian,” is by taking up the cross from the very first step of faith in Jesus Christ.

Sarah, you fall short. You need to repent of yourself, of your works, of your indoctrination you’ve brought with you out of Babylon, having been deceived and defiled by what you call “very good things.” You have brought Babylon (confusion) with you, mixing Christ with Belial and truth with error.

So you really haven’t left her at all, or putting it another way, she hasn’t left you. But it’s not her choice to make; it’s yours, and only the cross of Christ will deliver you from that vicious, handsome, charming, seductive, powerful, famous, popular woman who has slain many mighty, learned, “Christian” souls.

You ask, “If there is a church that gives detailed teachings on how righteousness is attainable if we only believe it (Rom. 6), that our hearts and minds can be purified (Jn. 1:47), we can be filled with the fullness of God (Eph. 3:16-20), be partakers of His holiness (Heb 12:10), who wouldn't want to be part of that?”

Who wouldn’t? How about the hundreds of millions in the institutionalized congregations? How about the world that chooses wickedness over Christ’s righteousness? What about the “all men” He spoke of that hate Him and those who follow Him? How about you, Sarah?

Being Who He is and testifying against the world, Jesus plainly declares He is hated by all men and that His disciples would be as He is in the sight of all. Man inherently hates his Creator. And the more religious man is, it is the more manifest that he hates Him. God loves obedience, but man prefers to offer Him substitutes and sacrifice instead. This way, man can avoid the only way to Him, the cross, and at the same time, justify himself and salve his conscience while rejecting Him.

Man is a liar, Sarah. You are living in lies. You need to know these things. I speak in love to you, not hate or condemnation, but if you prefer yourself over the Lord Jesus Christ, Whom you profess to love and serve, you will conclude by choice and not by truth that we are deceived and hateful. In other words, you will hate us and make us your enemy because we tell you the Truth.

“Honestly after a very diligent search, I could not find a church that did any of that.”

We believe you. Since the Lord called me out in 1976 and before that time, we have yet to find the Lord’s congregation preaching Him without guile, pointing to Him as He is. But now we have found that congregation and we are it. Is that arrogant of me to say so? Why? What if it’s the truth? Is that our doing or the Lord’s? Do we not have as much and far more of a right to speak the truth and represent Christ as He is, as all these others we’re speaking about have to tell lies and misrepresent Him?

If I seem arrogant, then I seem arrogant. If I boast, it’s not in myself but in the Lord and what He is to me and has done for me:

“And because of Him you are in Christ Jesus, Who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, as it is written, ‘Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord’” (1 Corinthians 1:30-31 ESV).

I would rather be seen as arrogant about the Truth, the cross of Christ and Him crucified and raised from the dead because I have the reality of those things, than to be a humble liar who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

“Are we there yet? If not, why not? Rom. 13:10. Have we died to self and to flesh yet? Do we hate sin yet? If not, why not? We are told to ‘awake to righteousness and sin not’.”

These are questions you need to put to yourself now. Did you expect that? No.

“This journey is not a cakewalk. The suffering involved is required. Few escape it. Job didn't. David didn't. Christ didn't. The Apostles didn't. Suffering serves to humble and purify us, purge us of ‘self’. Deut 8. That's why He tried the Israelites in the Wilderness. To purge them. So important!”

Though the cross is definitely an instrument of suffering, you confuse suffering and the cross. For example, Job didn’t take up the cross before and during the suffering God brought on him by Satan, did he? Not by his choice did suffering befall Job. Taking up the cross is a choice made.

Sarah, see how confounded you are? Presuming to be a teacher, you need much teaching yourself. Is that why the Lord Jesus Christ has brought you here?

“My brothers, do not be many teachers, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation” (James 3:1 MKJV).

1 Timothy 1:5-7 MKJV
(5) But the end of the commandment is love out of a pure heart, and a good conscience, and faith unfeigned,
(6) from which some, having swerved, have turned aside to foolish talking,
(7) desiring to be teachers of the Law, neither understanding what they say nor that which they affirm.

You say, “If there is a church that teaches the whole counsel of God, how to get cleaned of the filth of the flesh man, die to self, love others as Christ loves us, and be willing to chuck it all, just because He asked (and He did, it's all over the NT), that's a church we can get behind. Assuming there aren't a bunch of false doctrines, etc... in there.”

Sarah, how will you discern the right from the wrong, truth from error, and false doctrine from true? Are there not great multitudes deceived, all thinking they are the right and true? What makes you think you have more than they do? Why are you here? What do you see at ThePathofTruth? There’s little doubt in my mind at this point that once you have sufficiently perused our site, you’ll reject us as unholy. I would love to be wrong about that.

- always with eternal hope,

Victor

Dear Victor,

Yes I agree there probably are not any institutional churches that teach the Truth. However, Father had you in them for a while, and He did the same for me. Probably for more than a few of us I'm thinking? Not sure. Most of the questions I asked in my post were rhetorical questions when it comes to me. I don't think they are rhetorical when it comes to most.

True, Job did not choose to "lose his life", rather, God took it from him. Like a few others, I chose to lose my life for the Father. Yes, I have been purged, I am clean, and have no guile. Do I have all the wisdom yet, or all the knowledge? No, not yet. But I do have some, not of me, of course, but of the Father. Yes, I am qualified to teach, though perhaps I don't have as much wisdom or knowledge about doctrines etc... as you do. That's OK, since this is how we learn As one Body, we are here to edify each other. Yes perhaps that is why I am at your blog/site!

I do not endorse mixing light with darkness or endorse confusion. But if the gentleman who is writing to you is in a C3 church as a baby Christian, and if it's just his beginning with his walk with the Father, well... we all started somewhere. Your response to his letters will perhaps give him something to think about and as he is observing the C3 churches doings, he might start to see the errors that are present. Or perhaps that will only happen over time. I don't know, since I don't know his heart or where the Father is leading him.

I love your analogy re: dung! But we have to remember, you and I and probably some others had to be part of the "dung" of the church system for a bit. Great explanation about why folks love to sit in those churches! How true! Man's evil heart. Flesh hates God and God hates flesh. Enmity. Rom 8:1-14.

Of course, I hope for the best for Graeme, and for so many others. I have not had a chance to look at a whole lot of your site yet, but I really liked what I saw about suffering and loss. I know it is essential. Of course, not being wise and knowledgeable in all things, I don't understand what you are saying about the difference between the cross and suffering. I see the cross as an instrument of humbling, loss, purging, and losing oneself, an instrument of death. All good, of course. To me, that involves suffering. Acts 14"22. But I don't think that's the end of suffering either. But again, I just don't know everything. But I do know enough to know I belong to the Father, have died, and am born again. I am His.

Is your site unholy? I hope not. Frankly, from what I have seen so far, I don't think you in any way promote unholiness. Holiness is the Thing. And of course, so is Love. Ultimately, that is where we want to be.

By the way, I tend to speak in the first person plural a lot since I see the church as one person.... Christ. But please don't confuse my using first person plural with saying that I am not crucified, not free from sin, or not walking in love. By the grace and power of God, I am. I have no idea why He allowed me to be one of His, but I can tell you I am amazed and so very grateful. Anyone in my shoes would feel the same way.

I apologize for not being able to respond better to your message above. I am getting ready for work so time is limited. Thank you very much for taking the time to write and Lord willing I will read it when I get home later! Have a great day or evening, depending on where you live on this planet. . Sarah

To Graeme Smith:

“Concerning the works of men, by the Word of Thy lips I have kept me from the paths of the destroyer” (Psalms 17:4 KJV).

I just viewed http://www.c3bali.org/images/Vision2010_Print300dpi.PDF" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

I can tell you this, Graeme: Bodies given to be burned will not please the Lord. He will send fire to destroy, to entirely annihilate, all those apparently comely works of straw, wood, hay and stubble. There will be nothing left of all these works of men. It is all unclean in His sight - every bit of it.

Victor

Sarah Jeremiah wrote:I do not endorse mixing light with darkness or endorse confusion.

Sarah, your claims are bogus. You indulge in and promote unholy, incompatible mixture. Here’s an example from your Facebook page, where you write about the false teacher, Joyce Meyer:

She has such a cute personality and she knows how to deliver some hard truths in LOVE as well. As we all know by now, LOVE (not the emotion, but Biblical love, which involves several flesh-crucifying behaviors) is key in the Christian walk. The Bible says that faith is made efficacious by love! How interesting!
While I believe that the Bible would not condone Mrs. Meyer's wealth or her ministry's charging for the Word, I still like many of her teachings, and believe that the Father has given her some great wisdom.

You directly contradict the Lord Jesus Christ:

“Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruits, nor can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit” (Matthew 7:17-18 MKJV).

How can Mrs. Meyer be crucified with Christ when she’s “charging for the Word”? And did Jesus give a pass to those selling in the Temple because they had “cute personalities” and delivered some “hard truths in LOVE,” or did He send them packing at the end of a whip?

How can one who makes merchandise of the things of God be walking in His love? It doesn’t happen. You're deceived by appearances. You're deceived about yourself and that’s because your heart isn’t pure or right with God as you claim. You serve Satan.

Here’s what Victor wrote to someone about Joyce Meyer:

You say, "Joyce Meyer is one of my favourite teachers on how to live in joy, peace and purpose." Let me ask you, Doreen, where in Scripture is it recorded that anyone in any ministry of the Lord ever puts his or her name in lights before men? Did Paul? No. Did Peter? No. Did John the Baptist? No. Did Jesus Himself, Who alone is worthy of all praise, worship, honor and glory? No. He said to His disciples, "As My Father has sent Me, so I send you." When did a woman go preaching in Scripture? Nowhere. There is not one example of it. On the contrary, here is what Paul had to say about this matter:

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I do not allow a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression" (1 Timothy 2:11-14).

And: "Let your women be silent in the churches; for it is not permitted to them to speak, but to be in subjection, as the Law also says. And if they desire to learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home; for it is a shame for a woman to speak in a church" (1 Corinthians 14:34-35).

Joyce appears pictured on her site with her husband in a carnal, loving relationship, yet the two of them walk in disobedience to God. Is their love Godly, or merely conjugal, or even existent? The blessing of God is not upon their marriage if they take His Name in vain, as she does walking contrary to the counsel of the Scriptures.

I expect that Joyce has been confronted on these issues many times. She has her answers and you may repeat the typical, well-worn replies you have heard from many. Read Diabolical Doctrine: Women Are Ministers of God in Spiritual Authority over Men.

Of Joyce Meyer you emphasize living in joy, peace and purpose. Whether her emphasis or yours, it does not matter, though I know that she does have that emphasis, and therefore again offends God. The ministers of the Lord did not preach those things as an end in themselves, the way you mention them. There is nothing wrong with joy or peace or purpose, but are they the goal? Though much desired, are they to be sought for themselves? Are they not the automatic fruits of faith and obedience to God, which come in due time? If people seek after those things, they commit idolatry, automatically having other gods besides the Lord. [END QUOTE]

You're walking in all arrogance of the man of sin, Sarah. You need to repent.

Paul

Hi Paul,

No, I'm not endorsing unholiness. And I don't believe I have ever said that Joyce Meyer is crucified. She probably is not, just like most believers probably are not..... yet. Not sure where the Father will lead most, or if any/many will choose to say "yes" to the cross. But of course I sure hope so.

I see that you went to my You Tube channel. Please feel free to point out any teachings where I promote sin. But honestly, I don't think you will find any.

Christ said that (probably most) can't see, can't hear, do not understand, and are not converted, so He cannot heal them. Mt. 13:15. Unless/until He gives sight, hearing and understanding, I suppose most will not be converted or healed. However, I do not believe that you and Victor have all the wisdom and the only wisdom. Neither do I for that matter.

It is very nice that you gentlemen are endeavoring to teach folks mixed up in lukewarm christianity about the errors of that religion.

Re: Joyce Meyer and others..... It's hard to explain, but I'll try. Most believers are caught up in present-day christianity/churchianity. While some might have an evil black heart and have zero love for the Father, and no desire to "lose their lives" or anything else for Him, probably a few might not, might actually be seeking. Since Joyce Meyer is someone they know, I'm trying to reach them. While I don't follow or endorse Mrs. Meyer, there were times a few years ago when I would watch her program and she did teach me something, maybe about love or this walk. I believe she loves God, but probably loves her life more, and is not willing to lose it. She has her glory here, and does not yet realize she will not have any glory in eternity if she does not choose God fully.

Do I hate her? Yes and no. I hate what she is doing to the Father by not choosing Him fully and by fleecing the sheep for money. But honestly, I cannot hate anyone. And I have thought she has a cute personality. I honestly have not watched "christian" TV in about 2 years so am not sure how I would feel about all that now. Most of present day christianity and preaching wearies me now. And ticks me off. Maybe Mrs. Meyer might too?

In any case, I'm just trying to reach those lost in churchianity. My heart is clean, I do not endorse sin, I promote the cross and our "deaths", and I teach on holiness. The two great commandments are about love. Love is The Thing, since if we love God and die for Him, we will be able to love neighbors as self. Loving others and doing them no ill is "fulfilling the law". I.e., that's where the Father wants us.

I do believe you desire to promote what you believe is Truth, and I respect that. However, if we are walking in love, we probably should be careful the tone we take with others. Paul said we are to correct each other in a spirit of meekness. Gal. 6:1. Love is not proud or arrogant. If we are walking in that, we are not one with the Father. And we are shunning others if we are attacking them or alienating them. No, I'm not endorsing compromise either. Sin is sin is sin. I hate sin, period. Of course you probably don't believe me, but honestly, I do.

It's also sin to be striving and reviling others. We have to be careful that our zeal for the Father does not cause us to hate others or act and speak as if we hate them or look down our noses at them. We are one body. If we love others, we are supposed to be gentle and kind, forbearing one another in love. Rebuke sin, point out errors, but in a spirit of meekness. Maybe I just believe these things since I am a woman, and do not feel comfortable being harsh? Not sure. But I'm sure that the Bible backs me up on this.

You will probably write me again to try to knock me down and point out any fine points of doctrine that you disagree with. That's OK. I do understand you take pride in pointing out others' errors and believe you are standing up for the Truth. I actually admire your zeal. Hey, thank you again for writing. Have a great day or evening! Sarah

Sarah Jeremiah wrote:Hi Paul,

No, I'm not endorsing unholiness. And I don't believe I have ever said that Joyce Meyer is crucified. She probably is not, just like most believers probably are not..... yet....

I quoted your words, Sarah. Anyone can see the obvious inference you made, that Joyce Meyer speaks “hard truths in LOVE,” and that this LOVE “involves several flesh crucifying behaviors,” which are “the key in the Christian walk.”

But this is your problem – you say and do things and then claim you didn’t say and do them. You present us with a perfect, sinless Sarah, according to your own witness, which isn’t the person we’re dealing with here. You deny the vainglorious Sarah exists, though she stands naked and exposed before before all while you claim she is clothed in a heavenly wedding garment.

“If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not true” (John 5:31 MKJV).

We believe the Lord’s witness, not yours. You may fool many in the land of the blind, but not in the land of the living, and certainly never the Lord.

You say most believers aren't crucified with the Lord because you don't know what the cross or a true believer is. You don't know the One we believe in. A believer is one who takes up the cross, from the beginning:

“And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple” (Luke 14:27 EMTV).

Paul

Hi Paul,

Well, you are wrong about this vessel, but that's OK. I have borne my cross, and am crucified. Sin has dominion over this vessel. Perfect? Not yet, but of course that's the goal!

You know, it's so hard to really know someone via a blog, and also oftentimes email type communications don't accurately convey things either. Yes I am crucified, but truly it's not your fault if you disagree with that. As for Mrs. Meyer, I did not say she was crucified. Even in your quoting me, I said she taught on love, and I liked what she taught. The way 1 Cor. 13 reads, flesh is a set of about 15 flesh-crucifying behaviors.

In any case, you gentlemen have the appearance of being convinced that no one else has the truth, knows the Father, or loves Him, but yourselves. If I have misunderstood your spirit, I apologize. I do not see your blog or your spirit as edifying or kind. I know that sounds harsh. I am not trying to offend you.

If you please, let me know how to sever from your site, and also how to stop receiving emails notifying me of posts? Again, I mean no offense. But you gentlemen seem (to me) to be very difficult to communicate with, assuming that anyone who is not you is evil. You almost have the appearance of being narcissists. Again, I apologize for sounding harsh, and I can only imagine the venom that will soon be aimed my way. And you know I'm right.

Thank you very much for allowing me to disengage from this blog. I'm not very computer savvy when it comes to these things, and have tried to unsubscribe from getting daily emails from your site but don't know how (Like most of us, I get way to many emails). Please let me know? Thank you very much once again!! Sarah

Oops I almost forgot. Thank you for allowing me to write on your blog. I realize that we don't agree on many issues, and yet you allowed my entries to be posted. Thank you very much. I hope you have a great day or evening, and best wishes to you with The Path of Truth Forum!! Sarah

Hi Sarah,

Someone here at the Forum can help you disengage, likely Sara, or maybe Ronnie. As for emails aside from this Forum, Paul and Sara will delete you from a mailing list if you're on it.

You are walking in your own righteousness. I have the impression you've been greatly offended, taking it very hard. In any case, you're trying to justify yourself before others. Not only your entries in this forum but your YouTube presentations have the spirit of "I know things and have a right to speak as much as anyone. Listen to me, I'm worth it; I have something special to offer; I will not allow anyone to push me aside or question my relationship with Jesus Christ; I'm somebody; I'm anointed; see how spiritual I am; you need to pay attention."

You bear witness to yourself, as Paul has said. You may think you know the Lord, but He doesn't know you. You don't hear His Voice. This is not a put-down. This is not to argue or prove ourselves or our ministry. This is what the Lord shows us of you.

Keep pushing in your direction and you'll become a much sadder woman than you've ever been. Ironically, in your knowledge, understanding and determination, you are walking contrary to the Lord Jesus Christ, taking His Name in vain, using Him to promote yourself.

Sarah, you think you're alive, but you're dead. You don't believe us but in time you'll know.