One of our Sabbath meeting participants, a young believer, was approached by someone posing as knowledgeable who told her the Lord came as a black man. Here's correspondence from 2013 where we answered a vociferous proponent of racial bigotry.
Paul
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Hello.
From: Randaesha
To: ask@thepathoftruth.com
Date: 2/19/2013 9:12 PM
I was reading a lot of information on your website and a lot of it is definitely true. I am a true follower of Jesus Christ and The Spirit of God lives within me. I just would like to ask one question, do you know that Jesus Christ was indeed a black man who was hung on a tree like a slave or do you believe in the false white image of Christ?
From: Paul Cohen
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 3:10 PM
To: Randaesha
Cc: 'Victor Hafichuk'
Subject: Re: Hello.
Randaesha, here’s a true story. When I was in my twenty second year of life, Jesus Christ revealed Himself to me. I saw neither a black man nor a white man, but the Son of God and God Himself, according to His Spirit. If you were a true follower of Jesus Christ with the Spirit of God within, as you say, then you’d know the following to be true:
“So as we now know no one according to flesh, but even if we have known Christ according to flesh, yet now we no longer know Him so. So that if any one is in Christ, that one is a new creature; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new” (2 Corinthians 5:16-17 MKJV).
If one is in Christ, he or she becomes part of His body:
“For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many as were baptized into Christ, you put on Christ. There cannot be Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is no male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:26-28 MKJV).
There is also neither white nor black in Christ. So why are you emphasizing black, if color and other physical distinctions don’t matter to God in our salvation? We don’t worship a white or a black man, but God Almighty Who isn’t a man, though He took on human form.
Continuing my story: As a Jew, I was invited to join a Jewish Messianic congregation in my city. But I was warned by God and kept away from committing myself to a worship of Christ in the flesh. Why are you promoting knowing and worshiping Christ in the flesh, raising a stumbling block for true believers?
The answer is self-evident. You promote what you do yourself. No, Randaesha, you don’t follow the Lord Jesus Christ. You follow “another Jesus,” one made in your own image for self-glorification, as Paul the apostle warned his hearers against (2 Corinthians 11:4).
Here’s another true testimony from God, in which the Lord appeared in a dream to Victor. He was white and Jewish, not black, although universal in appearance - with a countenance like no person on earth. The man accompanying the Lord before the whole world was also white and distinctly Jewish:
Victor’s First Three Dreams from the Lord
You need to repent and to turn to the One True Lord Whom we preach, getting off your racist high-horse. Apparently all you’re getting out of our site is information, not the Truth, just as you use the Bible to suit yourself, filling yourself with knowledge rather than the love of God. He is not at all pleased with your ways, quite the opposite.
Paul Cohen
http://www.ThePathofTruth.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
From: Randaesha
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 3:33 PM
To: Paul Cohen
Subject: Re: Hello.
If you would read Chapter 1 of Revelations it reveals how Jesus Christ looked.
Revelation 1:13-15
13 And in the middle of them one like a son of man, clothed with a robe down to his feet, and with a band of gold round his breasts.
And when I referred to Jesus being a black man, I was talking about when He walked the Earth. When the Spirit of God entered I seen a Spirit yes that is true very beautiful. But I'm talking about when Jesus walked the Earth and all the chosen people of the Bible were indeed black. Read this scripture from Revelation;
14 And his head and his hair were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
15 And his feet like polished brass, as if it had been burned in a fire; and his voice was as the sound of great waters.
Now it says that Jesus hair was like wool, let's be honest white people hair are not the texture of sheep. It also says that his feet was of fine brass as if it were burned in a furnace, brass the color of brass is brown, like a penny so that prove that Jesus was indeed a black man. Now the reason why I wrote you is because y'all speak some truthful things on your website, but if you're going to speak truth for Jesus, speak full truth because people are putting a false white Jesus out there and He is not happy about that. Don't compromise, because that is not of God. I'm not racist or anything like that but Jesus revealed a lot to me and we are in the last days. People need real truth, we have enough compromisers in the churches with pagan Christianity that speak lies and not telling people truth today.
From: Randaesha
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 3:43 PM
To: Paul Cohen
Subject: Re: Hello.
Also I walk but the fruits of the Spirit. God is a God of truth, love, and righteousness. If people are not putting the truth about Jesus true heritage out there, then how am I wrong for saying He was a black man? How am I wrong for the love and truth that Jesus revealed to me and revealing it to the people? If you have Jesus He would have shown you that He was indeed a black man and how Christianity is putting out lies saying Christmas is His birthday have people following false pagan religions that is not of God. All these pagan holidays and the truth about Jesus death. Did you know the Jesus was hung on a tree and not on the cross? All I'm doing is speaking truth for Jesus and you're telling me I'm worshipping of the flesh. That is not true nor do you know the spiritual experiences I've had all my life with demons and evil spirits. So research the truth rather then telling me what I'm doing when I haven't done anything but speak truth for the Messiah Jesus Christ who was indeed a black man who was beaten like a slave and hung on a tree for all nations to seek salvation through Him. And yes God did come of the flesh, yet God made Adam and Eve in His image.
From: Paul Cohen
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 1:02 PM
To: Randaesha
Cc: 'Victor Hafichuk'
Subject: Idolatry of Another Color
You’re wrong, Randaesha, we do have Jesus (He has consumed us), and if you had Him you would know it and hear what we’re saying.
“We are of God. He who knows God hears us. The one who is not of God does not hear us. From this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error” (1 John 4:6 MKJV).
You have the spirit of error and don’t hear a thing we’re saying. The Lord Jesus Christ has shown us that He didn’t come in the flesh as a black man, nor is He one now. He came as a Jew, and the Jews aren’t black.
To know that the Jews aren’t black doesn’t require revelation. Look at the region where the Jews come from and the people populating it throughout history – Abraham came from what is today Iraq. Those people aren’t black. Genetics and history prove the modern day Jews are Abraham’s ancestors, and aren’t Khazars as some jealous black people report, trying to make themselves Jews in the flesh. The only Jews in the flesh who are black are those who have intermarried or converted, like Sammy Davis.
Here’s the report of a Jewish woman in the Bible:
“Women of Jerusalem, I am dark but beautiful, dark as the desert tents of Kedar, but beautiful as the draperies in Solomon's palace. Don't look down on me because of my color, because the sun has tanned me. My brothers were angry with me and made me work in the vineyard. I had no time to care for myself” (Song of Solomon 1:5-6 GNB).
Black people don’t get tans when working in the vineyard, but white people do.
But the crucial matter, as I told you in my first letter, is that you aren’t worshipping the resurrected Lord. You have instead set up an idol in the Name of the Lord, created in your own black image. Your idol is black not only in color, but in substance, devoid of Light. You complain about the false white Jesus, which indeed is a vile and disgusting image, but then add sin to sin by making a black version of the same image on your Twitter page. Hypocrite!
You’re an arrogant and ignorant woman, Randaesha, with a loud and stubborn mouth. You haven’t been cleared of devils, as you seem to assume. They continue to deceive you. However, forget about the devils you say have tormented you, as if you’re an innocent victim. You’re the devil that needs to be dealt with. And you have the nerve to talk about others needing to repent?
As for how the risen Lord appeared to John, you have that wrong, too. John wrote that the Lord’s hair was white LIKE wool, not fuzzy like wool. But you won’t admit that you pervert the Scriptures to suit your idolatry, will you?
You say you’ve red “a lot” on our site and you agree with us on many things. That’s a lie. You don’t even know that we don’t promote the false Christ of the nominal Christian world, along with its many Diabolical Doctrines and The True Marks of a Cult. We don’t teach the blasphemous lie of eternal torment either, which you do. You know nothing about us or the Lord. You’re blind, yet you say you can see, so your sin and blindness remain.
I’m not dismissing you, Randaesha – I’ve only accurately described you. God will have His way with you and your idols will fall by His Word that we have spoken. Read Religious Images, Icons, and Likenesses.
Paul
From: Beryl
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 9:34 PM
To: Randaesha; Victor Hafichuk; Paul Cohen
Subject: Randaesha's "black" Jesus
Hello, Randaesha,
I'm particularly interested in why you would even think that our Lord Jesus Christ was/is black? What's the big deal Randaesha? It is honestly a very sad fact that many dark-skinned people have massive chips on their shoulders. This is known, throughout the world and, sadly, all you're doing, is making that fact extremely clear. You're black, I'm pink - so what?
There is no ways on this Earth that I would be persuaded to believe one word you've said, or written? You are deluded, dear. Because Job's skin was black (burned by the heat) does that make him a black man? (Job 30:30). Jeremiah 8:21 - was he black? How about Lamentations 5:10 - some translations read:"Our skin was black like an oven....." Other translations read: "Our skin is hot as an oven" does that mean Jeremiah and the Hebrews were black? You are indeed preaching and worshiping "another" Jesus, altogether.
May God give you the will and the strength to see the light and not the darkness.
Beryl
Johannesburg
South Africa.
On 8 March 2014 22:56, Randaesha wrote:
Okay, you're pink and so was Esau aka Edom and God hated Esau and God hate all the Edomites so get your racist ass out my inbox and I'm exposing you wicked ass people with all the crap you telling people and condemning. I pronounce a curse on your website and a curse on all you wicked ass people who are apart of the PATH OF TRUTH staff. You people are sick and you're not wasting my time with this foolishness. You people are freaking racist and sick to condemn people. I'm free in Jesus and I'm just Randaesha and obviously y'all don't like it but I don't give a damn. Y'all people are sick and twisted and God is coming for you wicked ass people who are pushing these false doctrines that comes straight from HELL! I don't have time for foolishness, I'm on bigger and better things for Jesus and you people are only a waste of time because I already exposed you but now I'm exposing you wicked people some more because y'all not stopping with this madness. What y'all are doing is not promoting love and God is love and love is truth and y'all don't stand for that. Jesus coming for you wicked ass people. And yes the Hebrews were black dumbass, the only way white people would get crispy black is by burning massively in a fire and white folks get tanned to get their skin darker but they still white. Get out my inbox with this foolish.
From: Beryl
Sent: March-14-14 1:22 AM
To: Randaesha; Victor Hafichuk; Paul Cohen; Sara Schmidt; Marilyn Hafichuk
Subject: Re: Randaesha's "black" Jesus
Randaesha.... I have nothing to say to you and your crass, rude, untrue, misguided, "Christian" statements. However, I am forwarding your mail to The Path of Truth.
Beryl
From: Victor Hafichuk
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 9:15 AM
To: 'Beryl Brooks'; 'Randaesha Angelle'; 'Paul Cohen'; 'Sara Schmidt'; 'Marilyn Hafichuk'
Subject: RE: Randaesha's "black" Jesus
How sweet, loving and Christlike of her! We really should follow her example, shouldn’t we? Oh, to be black like her!! If only!
\/
We also received this comment from Bradley:
Perhaps Randaesha would be served better if she didn't focus on the physical appearance of the Lord when He dwelt amongst us in the flesh, and stopped judging by outward appearances. It would be fine, if she considered the Scriptures cited below.
Isa 53:2 For He comes up before Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground; He has no form nor majesty that we should see Him, nor an appearance that we should desire Him.
Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a Man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as it were a hiding of faces from Him, He being despised, and we esteemed Him not.
Isa 53:4 Surely He has borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But He was wounded for our transgressions; He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was on Him; and with His stripes we ourselves are healed.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and He was afflicted; yet He opened not His mouth. He is brought as a lamb to the slaughter; and as a sheep before its shearers is dumb, so He opened not His mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment; and who shall declare His generation? For He was cut off out of the land of the living; for the transgression of My people He was stricken.
Isa 53:9 And He put His grave with the wicked, and with a rich one in His death; although He had done no violence, nor was any deceit in His mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to crush Him; to grieve Him; that He should put forth His soul as a guilt-offering. He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, and the will of the LORD shall prosper in His hand.
Psa 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised by the people.
Psa 22:7 All who see Me mock me; they shoot out the lip; they shake the head, saying,
Psa 22:8 He trusted on the LORD; let Him deliver Him; let Him rescue Him, since He delights in Him!
Was Jesus Black?
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Donna Giovanni
Re: Was Jesus Black?
I do not believe in the white JESUS while He was in the flesh here on earth. I do believe that the real Jews (Israelites) had darker skin than a white person & since Jesus in the flesh was descended thru a Jewish line, then yes, His skin was darker...was He a negro? No I don't believe so. Yes, I realize that we are neither Jew or Greek in the spirit. The so-called Jews of today are really not Israelites & that has already been proven by DNA testing. They are from Kazaria, so they are of of turkish & hun & mongol descent.
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Paul Cohen
Re: Was Jesus Black?
Donna, you say of the Jews’ genetic identity: “The so-called Jews of today are really not Israelites & that has already been proven by DNA testing. They are from Kazaria, so they are of of turkish & hun & mongol descent.”
This is a false report. Number one (and this is all we need to know), God promised the land of Israel to Abraham’s seed through Isaac and Jacob. Do you really believe the Almighty got it wrong, bringing the wrong people back into the land as prophesied by His servants? Read Israel Back in the Land, as Promised.
Number two, the Khazar theory is a silly fable made up by a Jew (Arthur Koestler) to escape persecution. This theory has been debunked on genetic and historical grounds. Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnIEsf_klCg.
Other articles:
http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/fron ... 007/05/09/
http://forward.com/news/200825/why-ashk ... m-khazars/
This is a false report. Number one (and this is all we need to know), God promised the land of Israel to Abraham’s seed through Isaac and Jacob. Do you really believe the Almighty got it wrong, bringing the wrong people back into the land as prophesied by His servants? Read Israel Back in the Land, as Promised.
Number two, the Khazar theory is a silly fable made up by a Jew (Arthur Koestler) to escape persecution. This theory has been debunked on genetic and historical grounds. Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnIEsf_klCg.
Other articles:
http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/fron ... 007/05/09/
http://forward.com/news/200825/why-ashk ... m-khazars/
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Elwin Booysen
Re: Was Jesus Black?
Hi Victor and Paul
I have been reading your writings for a couple years now and truly believed that you are in complete truth concerning the things of God. Never had I any reason to doubt or question your teachings.
Unfortunately, now I'm starting to doubt your source, or at the very least, God is blocking you from seeing the real truth. I might be wrong, and often am, I am the first to admit that. I only search for the truth.
Now, I really mean no disrespect, and this has got nothing to do with you personally, all I truly care about is the truth. The last thing I want to do is offend true prophets of The Most High, and if I am doing that in any way shape or form I ask Him for forgiveness and Let His will be done in His dealings with me.
Therefore I don't wish to enter into any sort of debate, as I am certainly not equipped to do so. I am still learning. This is only to ask you to clarify a few things for understanding.
Here goes:
This whole discussion here is about whether or not Jesus was black or not. I think that is very important here is why...
1) He walked this earth physically and therefore He had to be of a certain race, period. He had to have an appearance. What was that appearance? We can't decide what we want that appearance to be, He was either black or He wasn't, and if He was why did we decide to make Him white? Why did it matter?It clearly DID matter.
2) Back to His race. If that race (Israelites) were black (and He was black), then it obviously means all the Israelites are black, then and now. They can't suddenly be white. Yes, there was definitely cases where mixing took place over the many thousands of years. Which means that there are variety of shades of colour ranging from very dark to very light brown within the Israelite bloodlines. Some may even look white, but the fact is, Israelites are a black race. If it is the case of cause.
3) If the true Hebrew Israelites are black, that makes the current Jewish people in the holy land and around the world imposters.
Yes, this whole discussion you have here is very important and significant.
According to my own research thus far, it truly does appear that the true Hebrew Israelites always was and to this day still is a black race.
That is the reason why I say that I am starting to "doubt" your source because if it is true, why is it that you are unable to see it. If it is true, why is it that God never revealed to you that Paul Cohen is and never was a Israelite of the bloodline of Jacob. That to me is serious because if He kept THAT from you, what else is He keeping from you, or worse, what is "he" revealing to you as truth. God has a special relationship with the children of Jacob, that's a fact. If we are not of the bloodline of Jacob we are not Israelites. We can't claim to be if we are not.
Before we even look at history and science, and all other academic disciplines at our disposal to uncover the events of the past to the current, I would like you to explain according the scriptures the following.
The skin colour of Israelites...
Lamentations 5:10
Lamentations 4:2-8
Job 30:30
Song of Solomon 1:5-6
Acts 21:37-38 (We know Paul was an Israelite - Romans 11:1) Why was he mistaken for an Egyptian - who was a black race.
Daniel 7:9 / Revelation 1:13-15 (hair texture and feet colour of The Most High)
Acts 13:1 (meaning of Niger?)
In terms of white skin colour in contrast to the normal, original colour of the Israelites...
2 Kings 5:27
Exodus 4:6-8
Numbers 12:9-10
There are other instances also like how Moses was not identified as an Israelite baby as he looked just like an Egyptian baby. Otherwise the pharaoh whould have certainly had him killed. Or when Joseph's brothers didn't recognize him amongst the Egyptians. Historical facts clearly shows that the original Egyptians were black.
Then, please explain to me how Deuteronomy 15-68 applies to the people we call Jews today. Then explain to me how it does not apply to the black people, especially the American blacks and blacks in previously colonised countries around the world.
Thanks in advance.
Yours sincerely
Elwin Booysen
I have been reading your writings for a couple years now and truly believed that you are in complete truth concerning the things of God. Never had I any reason to doubt or question your teachings.
Unfortunately, now I'm starting to doubt your source, or at the very least, God is blocking you from seeing the real truth. I might be wrong, and often am, I am the first to admit that. I only search for the truth.
Now, I really mean no disrespect, and this has got nothing to do with you personally, all I truly care about is the truth. The last thing I want to do is offend true prophets of The Most High, and if I am doing that in any way shape or form I ask Him for forgiveness and Let His will be done in His dealings with me.
Therefore I don't wish to enter into any sort of debate, as I am certainly not equipped to do so. I am still learning. This is only to ask you to clarify a few things for understanding.
Here goes:
This whole discussion here is about whether or not Jesus was black or not. I think that is very important here is why...
1) He walked this earth physically and therefore He had to be of a certain race, period. He had to have an appearance. What was that appearance? We can't decide what we want that appearance to be, He was either black or He wasn't, and if He was why did we decide to make Him white? Why did it matter?It clearly DID matter.
2) Back to His race. If that race (Israelites) were black (and He was black), then it obviously means all the Israelites are black, then and now. They can't suddenly be white. Yes, there was definitely cases where mixing took place over the many thousands of years. Which means that there are variety of shades of colour ranging from very dark to very light brown within the Israelite bloodlines. Some may even look white, but the fact is, Israelites are a black race. If it is the case of cause.
3) If the true Hebrew Israelites are black, that makes the current Jewish people in the holy land and around the world imposters.
Yes, this whole discussion you have here is very important and significant.
According to my own research thus far, it truly does appear that the true Hebrew Israelites always was and to this day still is a black race.
That is the reason why I say that I am starting to "doubt" your source because if it is true, why is it that you are unable to see it. If it is true, why is it that God never revealed to you that Paul Cohen is and never was a Israelite of the bloodline of Jacob. That to me is serious because if He kept THAT from you, what else is He keeping from you, or worse, what is "he" revealing to you as truth. God has a special relationship with the children of Jacob, that's a fact. If we are not of the bloodline of Jacob we are not Israelites. We can't claim to be if we are not.
Before we even look at history and science, and all other academic disciplines at our disposal to uncover the events of the past to the current, I would like you to explain according the scriptures the following.
The skin colour of Israelites...
Lamentations 5:10
Lamentations 4:2-8
Job 30:30
Song of Solomon 1:5-6
Acts 21:37-38 (We know Paul was an Israelite - Romans 11:1) Why was he mistaken for an Egyptian - who was a black race.
Daniel 7:9 / Revelation 1:13-15 (hair texture and feet colour of The Most High)
Acts 13:1 (meaning of Niger?)
In terms of white skin colour in contrast to the normal, original colour of the Israelites...
2 Kings 5:27
Exodus 4:6-8
Numbers 12:9-10
There are other instances also like how Moses was not identified as an Israelite baby as he looked just like an Egyptian baby. Otherwise the pharaoh whould have certainly had him killed. Or when Joseph's brothers didn't recognize him amongst the Egyptians. Historical facts clearly shows that the original Egyptians were black.
Then, please explain to me how Deuteronomy 15-68 applies to the people we call Jews today. Then explain to me how it does not apply to the black people, especially the American blacks and blacks in previously colonised countries around the world.
Thanks in advance.
Yours sincerely
Elwin Booysen
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Isaiah Dillard
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:33 am
Re: Was Jesus Black?
Greetings,
Reading the posts on this thread, it shows how we can get caught in things that are unimportant when it comes to salvation. Due to differences on what color Jesus is, people want to start doubting The Truth posted on this website? It's a revelation that your heart hasn't been changed by The Lord, as pride of knowledge has came in.
As a man of multi-cultural ethnicity, with my earthly dad being black: The only color that matters is His blood that was shed for our sins. It's arrogant to come on this site and question the men of God based on these differences. Apostle Paul warned Timothy to not get caught in this type of debate:
3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
I know Jesus isn't the white man with long hair Catholics have portrayed, but ultimately, the same thing is being done when trying to portray Him in an image. Both are breaking the second commandment of God. It's good to hunger for God's word, but it's evil when in the wrong spirit. We can place a lot of apologetic sentences and "Christian" quotations around what's being said, but ultimately, your heart gets revealed through the lingo.
Pray to grow in the knowledge of His will with all wisdom and understanding. I'm beyond thankful To The Lord for Path of Truth, as this is His website and not mens, as He has set me free from the lies of the church through the ministering of His word. It is evil to rebuke an elder over such foolish genealogy that has nothing to do with your salvation, but can be a hindrance if you let race blind you and shows what manner of spirit you are coming in.
Grace and Peace be with you all
Reading the posts on this thread, it shows how we can get caught in things that are unimportant when it comes to salvation. Due to differences on what color Jesus is, people want to start doubting The Truth posted on this website? It's a revelation that your heart hasn't been changed by The Lord, as pride of knowledge has came in.
As a man of multi-cultural ethnicity, with my earthly dad being black: The only color that matters is His blood that was shed for our sins. It's arrogant to come on this site and question the men of God based on these differences. Apostle Paul warned Timothy to not get caught in this type of debate:
3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
I know Jesus isn't the white man with long hair Catholics have portrayed, but ultimately, the same thing is being done when trying to portray Him in an image. Both are breaking the second commandment of God. It's good to hunger for God's word, but it's evil when in the wrong spirit. We can place a lot of apologetic sentences and "Christian" quotations around what's being said, but ultimately, your heart gets revealed through the lingo.
Pray to grow in the knowledge of His will with all wisdom and understanding. I'm beyond thankful To The Lord for Path of Truth, as this is His website and not mens, as He has set me free from the lies of the church through the ministering of His word. It is evil to rebuke an elder over such foolish genealogy that has nothing to do with your salvation, but can be a hindrance if you let race blind you and shows what manner of spirit you are coming in.
Grace and Peace be with you all
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Brandon LaBerteaux
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:35 pm
- Location: Currently: Denver, CO
Re: Was Jesus Black?
Amen, Isaiah. As Victor and Paul have said before in this post and elsewhere, the race of Jesus Christ while He walked in the flesh is not what is important, but His sacrifice for our sins, that is Salvation for all and the loving mercy that enables us to live in faith by His Grace.Isaiah Dillard wrote:The only color that matters is His blood that was shed for our sins.
Elwin Booysen wrote:Unfortunately, now I'm starting to doubt your source, or at the very least, God is blocking you from seeing the real truth.
Respectfully, which is it, Elwin? Is Victor a prophet of the Most High, or is he not seeing/in "the real truth." It is not possible to be both.Elwin Booysen wrote: The last thing I want to do is offend true prophets of The Most High
From Victor's dream of the Coming of the Lord:
His [Jesus Christ's] face was distinctly Jewish, yes, Jewish, yet it was universal.
Concerning the flesh [skin color & race], it doesn't matter. The Lord is after Jews in the Spirit, those who are born of Him in faith by His Grace and work.
While Jesus was not black, all the debate and myths surrounding his race are a product of carnal reasoning and thinking, which is a fruit of Tree of Knowledge, our sinful nature, our carnal selves, the man of sin in each of us who has not yet been put away by the Lord's Grace.
Romans 8:5-9, MKJV
(5) For they who are according to the flesh mind the things of flesh, but they who are according to the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
(6) For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace
(7) because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the Law of God, neither indeed can it be.
(8) So then they who are in the flesh cannot please God.
(9) But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.
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Elwin Booysen
Re: Was Jesus Black?
I hope the reason you haven't answered my post is because you are busy looking into it, and not you ignoring the issue. 
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Jason C Lee
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:00 am
Re: Was Jesus Black?
Hi Elwin,
While I'm not Victor or Paul, I may be able to help. My question to you is: why does it matter and what is your REAL motive behind all of this? It seems you're focus is on the flesh here, which is insignificant. We know that there are Jews in the flesh and Jews in heart (Romans 2:29 MKJV). God is spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and in truth. Also, doesn't the Bible warn us about such speculations and fussing over endless genealogies (1 Timothy 1:4 KJV)?
Whether it's black Jews, white Jews or what have you, it doesn't matter half as much as being a Jew in heart regardless of color or culture. I will say that Jesus was not black nor was He white. Such ideas and assumptions come from the imaginations of men puffed up with the pride of life. Many WANT Jesus to be black or white for the cause of distinguishing their race as chosen or somehow superior. Is that the case here?
Jesus was olive-skinned and from the lineage of David. That being said, His attributes post-transfiguration are universal-embodying the essence of all. After all, God will be all in all in the fullness of time.
All that being said, the Lord does do things for good reason. He is addressed as "He" instead of "she" for a reason. His chosen likeness to us in the flesh on earth was for a reason. He came as a Jew in the flesh (and the descendants of Abraham are white) for a reason. Nothing that He ever does is a matter of random chance.
As for your other concerns, Brandon's last post has some answers that you should consider. Don't cast it off simply because Brandon isn't an elder. Is it that you're only willing to believe Victor or Paul in this case, with our answers being insignificant ( Psalm 8:2, Matthew 11:25, Matthew 21:16, Luke 10:21 MKJV)? I ask because some valuable and relevant information has been provided for you and it seems it's been shrugged off.
I would suggest going back through the responses on the thread. In closing, the problem isn't Victor or Paul's source as you suggest. The issue is the relevance of your question and the motive behind it.
While I'm not Victor or Paul, I may be able to help. My question to you is: why does it matter and what is your REAL motive behind all of this? It seems you're focus is on the flesh here, which is insignificant. We know that there are Jews in the flesh and Jews in heart (Romans 2:29 MKJV). God is spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and in truth. Also, doesn't the Bible warn us about such speculations and fussing over endless genealogies (1 Timothy 1:4 KJV)?
Whether it's black Jews, white Jews or what have you, it doesn't matter half as much as being a Jew in heart regardless of color or culture. I will say that Jesus was not black nor was He white. Such ideas and assumptions come from the imaginations of men puffed up with the pride of life. Many WANT Jesus to be black or white for the cause of distinguishing their race as chosen or somehow superior. Is that the case here?
Jesus was olive-skinned and from the lineage of David. That being said, His attributes post-transfiguration are universal-embodying the essence of all. After all, God will be all in all in the fullness of time.
All that being said, the Lord does do things for good reason. He is addressed as "He" instead of "she" for a reason. His chosen likeness to us in the flesh on earth was for a reason. He came as a Jew in the flesh (and the descendants of Abraham are white) for a reason. Nothing that He ever does is a matter of random chance.
As for your other concerns, Brandon's last post has some answers that you should consider. Don't cast it off simply because Brandon isn't an elder. Is it that you're only willing to believe Victor or Paul in this case, with our answers being insignificant ( Psalm 8:2, Matthew 11:25, Matthew 21:16, Luke 10:21 MKJV)? I ask because some valuable and relevant information has been provided for you and it seems it's been shrugged off.
I would suggest going back through the responses on the thread. In closing, the problem isn't Victor or Paul's source as you suggest. The issue is the relevance of your question and the motive behind it.
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Alan Agnew
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:54 am
Re: Was Jesus Black?
You did not discuss with the others that replied here? It's clear that you just want Victor or Paul. How rude.Elwin Booysen wrote:I hope the reason you haven't answered my post is because you are busy looking into it, and not you ignoring the issue.
Nevertheless, there are Bible quotes you point to, but first you really believe the Egyptians were blacks. A lot of people talk about what the real race of the Egyptians was or was not, many with credentials of all sorts, many with photos and ancient paintings, even DNA testing. They still don't agree as links like these display https://www.quora.com/Is-the-claim-that ... do-we-know" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_E ... ontroversy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; This isn't worth setting your foundation in because it is an endless genealogy.
Astounding it is that you quote Bible verses as proof of Israelites being black while the verses themselves do not say that. This one shows fall from glory:
Lam 4:7 Her Nazarites were purer than snow, whiter than milk; they were redder of bone than corals; their cuttings as lapis lazuli, azure blue.
Lam 4:8 Their appearance is blacker than soot; they are not recognized in the streets; their skin has shriveled on their bones; it is dried up; it has become like wood.
Then there was Job. Why present Job as proof of Israelites skin color? Still:
Job 30:29 I am a brother to jackals, and a companion to daughters of the ostrich.
Job 30:30 My skin is black on me, and my bones are burned with heat.
Come on, if he really meant he had literal black skin, he'd be a jackle with burning bones. No, he was in shame. Simeon in the New Testament is not mentioned much. But he does not have any genealogy
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Victor Hafichuk
- Posts: 749
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:07 am
Re: Was Jesus Black?
Elwin, it appears to me you're trying to come up another way, which suggests you're a thief and robber. It appears you wish to enter in without right of passage, substituting your skin color for Christ's wedding garment. This would absolve you of the required faith and repentance, wouldn't it?
So you aren't satisfied with the Testimonial Provision of God though you've spent 2 years in a Spiritual Oasis with the Best of Food and Water Aplenty at ThePathofTruth. You're still starving and dying of thirst! Remarkable.
Setting aside many erring comments you've made, I'd like to address the Scriptures you post in favor of the speculation that Jesus Christ was black.
For now, let's also set aside science, which is often science fiction. Let's set aside history, much of which Napoleon wisely perceived “is a myth agreed upon,” and let's set aside your manmade “academic disciplines.” Not that these are always entirely invalid, dishonest, or inaccurate.
Let's look to the Best Instrument we can for knowledge and wisdom: the Written Authority of all written authorities, the Writing of the History of Mankind and of All Ages, come forth from the Mouth of our Creator God, by which our Lord declared man shall live. Ironically, it is the Book you question and even serve to subvert as you try to use it in your favor.
I write not for you, who have had much opportunity to study and learn, but for others who need to hear the Plain Truth of the Scriptures, which you and those who persuade you are “wresting” to your destruction.
You write: “… I don't wish to enter into any sort of debate, as I am certainly not equipped to do so.”
You're right - it's perfectly obvious you're not at all equipped, but in Christ, I am, yet I'm not interested in debating with you either. If I must debate with you it's because you're not equipped and have no heart for the truth that you might be equipped, according to the Lord's standard and not man's. Then you might have hope and could give a substantial answer, thus stopping the mouths of gainsayers and fools who speak as you do.
You apparently have no hope. Still, I, as the man of God in Christ Jesus, will lay out the Scriptures and address those verses you present, not in debate by speculation and opinion proceeding from the unrepentance of sin, which is your misfortune and folly, but in the declaration of the Truth of God vested in me.
Your verses categorized by your points:
The skin colour of Israelites...
Lamentations 4:2-8 MKJV
(2) The precious sons of Zion are weighed against pure gold; how they are counted as earthen vessels, the work of a potter's hand!
(3) Even the jackals draw out the breast; they suckle their young ones. The daughter of my people is cruel, like the ostriches in the wilderness.
(4) The suckling's tongue cleaves to his palate in thirst; the young children ask bread; there is no breaking to them.
(5) Those who ate delicacies are desolate in the streets; those reared in scarlet embrace dunghills.
(6) And the iniquity of the daughter of my people is heaped more than the sin of Sodom, overthrown as in a moment, and no hands spun on her.
(7) Her Nazarites were purer than snow, whiter than milk; they were redder of bone than corals; their cuttings as lapis lazuli, azure blue.
(8) Their appearance is blacker than soot; they are not recognized in the streets; their skin has shriveled on their bones; it is dried up; it has become like wood.
So, you selectively focus on verse 8 because of the mention of the color black, but ignore verse 7, which declares the striking white, red, and azure blue? And you disregard altogether the aspects of famine common to all, such as the shriveled, wood-like skin, which is not solely a black feature. Not even a nice try, Elwin. The Hebrew word rendered “blacker” means to be darkened, as in the following expression: “Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see; and make their loins shake without ceasing” (Psalms 69:23 MKJV). Is that what you choose for yourself?
“Our skin is hot like an oven because of the fever heat of famine” (Lamentations 5:10 MKJV).
Fever heat of famine? Another translation:
“Our skin was black like an oven because of the terrible famine” (Lamentations 5:10 KJV).
Many other translations are essentially similar on that passage. So, your dark skin isn't natural? You've got a major sun tan born of heat and famine that you're proud of, do you?
Job 30:27-31 KJV
(27) My bowels boiled, and rested not: the days of affliction prevented me.
(28) I went mourning without the sun: I stood up, and I cried in the congregation.
(29) I am a brother to dragons, and a companion to owls.
(30) My skin is black upon me, and my bones are burned with heat.
(31) My harp also is turned to mourning, and my organ into the voice of them that weep.
“My skin is black upon me,” tells me Job remarks on the unnatural condition and tormenting circumstances he's in. Don't you see that? If he was naturally black, why would he be complaining about it?
And who says Job was a Jew or Hebrew?
Do blacks and only blacks automatically come with bones burned with heat?
“I am black, but comely, O daughters of Jerusalem, like the tents of Kedar, like the curtains of Solomon. Do not look on me, that I am black, that the sun has looked on me. My mother's sons were angry with me; they made me the keeper of the vineyards; but my vineyard I have not kept” (Song of Solomon 1:5-6 MKJV).
“I am black, but comely,”
“Do not look on me, that I am black”
“that the sun has looked on me”
Is it not obvious to you that the blackness here has nothing to do with being negroid? Why would there be an expression here of self-consciousness or defensiveness about natural skin color? Does this person in this allegory not represent a troubled spiritual state, the kind you, Elwin, are in, despite your skin color?
Is the person ashamed she's black in color or is she in spiritual distress? Is the Song of Solomon not an allegory? Do you make it all literal? If literal, let's not selectively choose to fit an agenda. Try reading the entire book literally and see how far you get with your foolishness.
Again, does the sun make your skin black? In this allegory, is the spiritual pilgrim not complaining about “spiritual sunburn”? Yet on the literal level, black people don't get tans when working in the vineyard, but white people do. Been there, done it. Have you?
Acts 21:37-38 (We know Paul was an Israelite - Romans 11:1) Why was he mistaken for an Egyptian - who was a black race.
Acts 21:37-39 MKJV
(37) And as Paul was about to be led into the fortress, he said to the chiliarch, Is it lawful for me to say a thing to you? And he said, Do you know Greek?
(38) Then are you not the Egyptian who before these days caused a riot, and led four thousand men of the assassins out into the wilderness?
(39) But Paul said, I am a man, a Jew of Tarsus in Cilicia, a citizen of no small city. And I beseech you, allow me to speak to the people.
Easy enough explanation for even the simple to understand. This passage is misunderstood only by one whose eye isn't single but who has an agenda to excuse sin and find another way of justification before God and man.
The reader has no call to assume the chiliarch or captain was determining identity by skin color but by political or social rumor. Besides, the indigenous Egyptians weren't black. They were and are brown - there is a difference between their features and the black features of negroes.
Neither is there any suggestion the Egyptian looked like a typical Egyptian; he could have been Chinese by race for all you know. I'm Canadian. There are Canadian whites, blacks, reds, yellows, and browns. Am I black or brown or yellow? Does it matter? You say it does. We're all “Egyptian” (Canadian) if you will.
Daniel 7:9 / Revelation 1:13-15 (hair texture and feet colour of The Most
High)
“I watched until the thrones were set in place, and the Ancient of Days sat, whose robe was white as snow, and the hair of His head like the pure wool. His throne was like flames of fire, and His wheels like burning fire” (Daniel 7:9 MKJV).
Revelation 1:13-15 MKJV
(13) And having turned, I saw seven golden lampstands. And in the midst of the seven lampstands I saw One like the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the feet, and tied around the breast with a golden band.
(14) His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow. And His eyes were like a flame of fire.
(15) And His feet were like burnished brass having been fired in a furnace. And His voice was like the sound of many waters.
How do you make the “pure wool” a matter of texture rather than color, which is white? Who authorized you to do so, contrary to the Word? Isn't it clear John speaks of the color of the hair in verse 14 (“white like wool,” as “white as snow”)? Or do you have a problem with “white”?
Are your eyes like a flame of fire or are they bright in the whites? Take off your shoes and socks and show us if your feet are the color of burnished brass, different from the rest of your body. Let's hear your voice now and see how the black voice is like the sound of many waters.
Is the black community that troubles you hell-bent on proudly redeeming itself apart from repentance of sin? Is that it?
Acts 13:1 (meaning of Niger?)
“And in Antioch some among the existing church were prophets and teachers. (such as Barnabas, and Simeon who was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, the foster-brother of Herod the tetrarch) and Saul” (Acts 13:1 MKJV).
Your speculations take away the breath. How foolish can you possibly be in your evil surmising? Was Barnabas called “Niger”? Or Herod's foster brother, or Saul? So how does one man who is allegedly black, speculating by the name “Niger,” suddenly and conclusively make all these people black because they are Hebrews and should, therefore, be black according to your troublers? Not saying Simeon was or wasn't black; I'm saying you can't say he was.
In terms of white skin colour in contrast to the normal, original colour of the Israelites...
“And the leprosy of Naaman shall cling to you and to your seed forever. And he went out from his presence as leprous as snow” (2 Kings 5:27 MKJV).
So being leprous as snow makes Gehazi black? This is your proof?! Are you not aware that semitic people and those commonly called “whites” aren't white as snow?
Exodus 4:6-8 MKJV
(6) And the LORD said to him again, Now put your hand in your bosom. And he put his hand into his bosom. And when he took it out, behold, his hand was as leprous as snow.
(7) And He said, Put your hand into your bosom again. And he put his hand into his bosom again. And he brought it out of his bosom, and behold, it was turned again like his other flesh.
(8) And it will be, if they will not believe you, neither listen to the voice of the first sign, then they will believe the voice of the latter sign.
“And the anger of the LORD was kindled against them, and He moved. And the cloud moved from the tabernacle. And behold! Miriam became leprous, as snow. And Aaron looked on Miriam, and behold, she was leprous” (Numbers 12:9-10 MKJV).
Are you trying to tell us that a white man's hand can't be “leprous as snow” in contrast to his normal color? Really, Elwin. If there was ever an appropriate demonstration of “straining out a gnat while swallowing a camel,” aren't your interpretations of these Scriptures ideal examples? I say you are listening to very darkened, stubborn, selfish, stupid, bitter, and erring people. What do you say?
Beware, you become as the company you keep, and what are you doing to others who keep your company?
There are other instances also like how Moses was not identified as an Israelite baby as he looked just like an Egyptian baby. Otherwise the pharaoh whould have certainly had him killed. Or when Joseph's brothers didn't recognize him amongst the Egyptians. Historical facts clearly shows that the original Egyptians were black.
“Otherwise the pharaoh whould have certainly had him killed.”
Says who? You? Your carnal mind? Those who flatter and seek you for their own gain and ultimately your destruction? Answer: all of the above.
You habitually assume things without warrant. You assume that Pharaoh's daughter needed to hide from her father the fact Moses was Hebrew; that if her father did know, he wouldn't have made an exception or allowance for the daughter to have her way. How do you know she wasn't a spoiled child getting her way? After all, she did take on herself a forbidden child, didn't she? Why wouldn't you consider that fact?
Above all, you make no allowance for God's Sovereignty, His miraculous work of salvation wherein He “turns a heart whichever way He will,” be it that of the Pharaoh's daughter or the Pharaoh; He “opens doors and no man shuts and shuts doors and no man opens,” how He can blind the seeing eye and make the blind eye to see, regardless of what people desire, think, say, or do.
And, as already pointed out, the Israelites did bear a resemblance to Egyptians, because both were shades of brown, not black.
As for Joseph's brothers not recognizing him, is it not perfectly expected that after over 21 years, some of those being formative in physiology from Joseph's age of 17, that the brothers wouldn't recognize their young brother? Also there was the fact from what I'm told that Egyptians wore some make-up, and Joseph would have had some headdress that would alter appearance.
It is said that if one wishes to hide, do so in the wide open, in the least expected place and way to hide. The unlikeliest place Joseph's brothers would have expected to see him whom they despised and had sold into slavery, would be as ruler of Egypt. Again, your speculations are refuted and your wishes and hopes are dashed.
God is nowhere to be found in your confusion, Elwin. You don't believe; you have no faith. There's only one reason for that: your sin separates you from God.
Then, please explain to me how Deuteronomy 15-68 applies to the people we call Jews today. Then explain to me how it does not apply to the black people, especially the American blacks and blacks in previously colonised countries around the world.
There is no Deut. 15:68. In your irresponsible and disrespectful presentation you create work for others. It could be you're referring to:
Deuteronomy 15:6-8 MKJV
(6) For the LORD your God blesses you as He promised you. And you shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow. And you shall reign over many nations, but they shall not reign over you.
(7) If there is among you a poor man of one of your brothers inside any of your gates in your land which the LORD your God gives you, you shall not harden your heart nor shut your hand from your poor brother.
(8) But you shall open your hand wide to him, and shall surely lend him enough for his need, that which he lacks.
I still don't see what you're aiming at, but hasn't what I've said already made this point moot, whatever it is?
He walked this earth physically and therefore He had to be of a certain race, period. He had to have an appearance. What was that appearance? We can't decide what we want that appearance to be, He was either black or He wasn't,
What deductive powers, Elwin! How then did you not discern the substance and meanings of our writings?
We've all heard the expression, “scraping the bottom of the barrel,” describing desperation. Until now, I don't think I've heard of “taking the bottom of the barrel right out” to defend the obviously indefensible until now. You're giving cause for such a saying quite handily. And you say, “all I truly care about is the truth”? I don't see it, Elwin, not a whit.
Now, are you fool enough to be offended and raging mad at my blunt answer, or are you intelligent and humble enough to rightly feel so very silly for bringing up all this nonsense?
I'd like to think you could taste the goodness of God, repent, abhorring yourself as did Job when he realized how foolish he'd been. But I've seen too many people like you walk away to do their own thing, inevitably destroying themselves. Isn't that just what some Jews did when they saw Lazarus raised from the dead? Unbelief is an amazing tyrant with a powerful grip on its victims.
You say, “If we are not of the bloodline of Jacob we are not Israelites.” Have you not red these, among so many other things in the Scriptures?
“For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that outwardly in flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart; in spirit and not in letter; whose praise is not from men, but from God” (Romans 2:28-29 MKJV).
You contradict the Scriptures again and again. Must one be of the bloodline of Jacob to be an Israelite?
“If a stranger shall sojourn with you and would keep the Passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised. Then he may come near and keep it; he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it” (Exodus 12:48 ESV).
Something else to consider that declares the enormity of your error: If all blacks are Israelites as you seem to suggest, then how is the Lord's Word true when He says:
“Strive to enter in at the narrow gate. For I say to you, many will seek to enter in and shall not be able” (Luke 13:24 MKJV).
But you suggest that if your skin is black, you're in; no problem. How then, is there a necessity for striving? And it seems like a lot of blacks around, Elwin. Are they all Israelites? How many does the Lord say enter in?
“Go in through the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many there are who go in through it. Because narrow is the gate and constricted is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it” (Matthew 7:13-14 MKJV).
Is the entry requirement then one of color? You fool! I will say to you what our brother Paul said:
Romans 1:21-24 MKJV
(21) Because, knowing God, they did not glorify Him as God, neither were thankful. But they became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
(22) Professing to be wise, they became fools
(23) and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man, and birds, and four-footed animals, and creeping things.
(24) Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves.
You see how your proposed doctrine totally contradicts both letter and Spirit of the Holy Record of God.
All said, your problem isn't that your skin is black but that your heart is black.
“The light of the body is the eye. Therefore if your eye is sound, your whole body shall be full of light. But if your eye is evil, your whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness” (Matthew 6:22-23 MKJV).
“Therefore take heed that the light in you is not darkness” (Luke 11:35 MKJV).
You cling to your sins and will find a way to avoid the Truth by the cross, Elwin. Isn't that so? What are your sins and gods? Am I not dealing with a “faithless and perverse generation”?
God's will be done.
\/
So you aren't satisfied with the Testimonial Provision of God though you've spent 2 years in a Spiritual Oasis with the Best of Food and Water Aplenty at ThePathofTruth. You're still starving and dying of thirst! Remarkable.
Setting aside many erring comments you've made, I'd like to address the Scriptures you post in favor of the speculation that Jesus Christ was black.
For now, let's also set aside science, which is often science fiction. Let's set aside history, much of which Napoleon wisely perceived “is a myth agreed upon,” and let's set aside your manmade “academic disciplines.” Not that these are always entirely invalid, dishonest, or inaccurate.
Let's look to the Best Instrument we can for knowledge and wisdom: the Written Authority of all written authorities, the Writing of the History of Mankind and of All Ages, come forth from the Mouth of our Creator God, by which our Lord declared man shall live. Ironically, it is the Book you question and even serve to subvert as you try to use it in your favor.
I write not for you, who have had much opportunity to study and learn, but for others who need to hear the Plain Truth of the Scriptures, which you and those who persuade you are “wresting” to your destruction.
You write: “… I don't wish to enter into any sort of debate, as I am certainly not equipped to do so.”
You're right - it's perfectly obvious you're not at all equipped, but in Christ, I am, yet I'm not interested in debating with you either. If I must debate with you it's because you're not equipped and have no heart for the truth that you might be equipped, according to the Lord's standard and not man's. Then you might have hope and could give a substantial answer, thus stopping the mouths of gainsayers and fools who speak as you do.
You apparently have no hope. Still, I, as the man of God in Christ Jesus, will lay out the Scriptures and address those verses you present, not in debate by speculation and opinion proceeding from the unrepentance of sin, which is your misfortune and folly, but in the declaration of the Truth of God vested in me.
Your verses categorized by your points:
The skin colour of Israelites...
Lamentations 4:2-8 MKJV
(2) The precious sons of Zion are weighed against pure gold; how they are counted as earthen vessels, the work of a potter's hand!
(3) Even the jackals draw out the breast; they suckle their young ones. The daughter of my people is cruel, like the ostriches in the wilderness.
(4) The suckling's tongue cleaves to his palate in thirst; the young children ask bread; there is no breaking to them.
(5) Those who ate delicacies are desolate in the streets; those reared in scarlet embrace dunghills.
(6) And the iniquity of the daughter of my people is heaped more than the sin of Sodom, overthrown as in a moment, and no hands spun on her.
(7) Her Nazarites were purer than snow, whiter than milk; they were redder of bone than corals; their cuttings as lapis lazuli, azure blue.
(8) Their appearance is blacker than soot; they are not recognized in the streets; their skin has shriveled on their bones; it is dried up; it has become like wood.
So, you selectively focus on verse 8 because of the mention of the color black, but ignore verse 7, which declares the striking white, red, and azure blue? And you disregard altogether the aspects of famine common to all, such as the shriveled, wood-like skin, which is not solely a black feature. Not even a nice try, Elwin. The Hebrew word rendered “blacker” means to be darkened, as in the following expression: “Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see; and make their loins shake without ceasing” (Psalms 69:23 MKJV). Is that what you choose for yourself?
“Our skin is hot like an oven because of the fever heat of famine” (Lamentations 5:10 MKJV).
Fever heat of famine? Another translation:
“Our skin was black like an oven because of the terrible famine” (Lamentations 5:10 KJV).
Many other translations are essentially similar on that passage. So, your dark skin isn't natural? You've got a major sun tan born of heat and famine that you're proud of, do you?
Job 30:27-31 KJV
(27) My bowels boiled, and rested not: the days of affliction prevented me.
(28) I went mourning without the sun: I stood up, and I cried in the congregation.
(29) I am a brother to dragons, and a companion to owls.
(30) My skin is black upon me, and my bones are burned with heat.
(31) My harp also is turned to mourning, and my organ into the voice of them that weep.
“My skin is black upon me,” tells me Job remarks on the unnatural condition and tormenting circumstances he's in. Don't you see that? If he was naturally black, why would he be complaining about it?
And who says Job was a Jew or Hebrew?
Do blacks and only blacks automatically come with bones burned with heat?
“I am black, but comely, O daughters of Jerusalem, like the tents of Kedar, like the curtains of Solomon. Do not look on me, that I am black, that the sun has looked on me. My mother's sons were angry with me; they made me the keeper of the vineyards; but my vineyard I have not kept” (Song of Solomon 1:5-6 MKJV).
“I am black, but comely,”
“Do not look on me, that I am black”
“that the sun has looked on me”
Is it not obvious to you that the blackness here has nothing to do with being negroid? Why would there be an expression here of self-consciousness or defensiveness about natural skin color? Does this person in this allegory not represent a troubled spiritual state, the kind you, Elwin, are in, despite your skin color?
Is the person ashamed she's black in color or is she in spiritual distress? Is the Song of Solomon not an allegory? Do you make it all literal? If literal, let's not selectively choose to fit an agenda. Try reading the entire book literally and see how far you get with your foolishness.
Again, does the sun make your skin black? In this allegory, is the spiritual pilgrim not complaining about “spiritual sunburn”? Yet on the literal level, black people don't get tans when working in the vineyard, but white people do. Been there, done it. Have you?
Acts 21:37-38 (We know Paul was an Israelite - Romans 11:1) Why was he mistaken for an Egyptian - who was a black race.
Acts 21:37-39 MKJV
(37) And as Paul was about to be led into the fortress, he said to the chiliarch, Is it lawful for me to say a thing to you? And he said, Do you know Greek?
(38) Then are you not the Egyptian who before these days caused a riot, and led four thousand men of the assassins out into the wilderness?
(39) But Paul said, I am a man, a Jew of Tarsus in Cilicia, a citizen of no small city. And I beseech you, allow me to speak to the people.
Easy enough explanation for even the simple to understand. This passage is misunderstood only by one whose eye isn't single but who has an agenda to excuse sin and find another way of justification before God and man.
The reader has no call to assume the chiliarch or captain was determining identity by skin color but by political or social rumor. Besides, the indigenous Egyptians weren't black. They were and are brown - there is a difference between their features and the black features of negroes.
Neither is there any suggestion the Egyptian looked like a typical Egyptian; he could have been Chinese by race for all you know. I'm Canadian. There are Canadian whites, blacks, reds, yellows, and browns. Am I black or brown or yellow? Does it matter? You say it does. We're all “Egyptian” (Canadian) if you will.
Daniel 7:9 / Revelation 1:13-15 (hair texture and feet colour of The Most
High)
“I watched until the thrones were set in place, and the Ancient of Days sat, whose robe was white as snow, and the hair of His head like the pure wool. His throne was like flames of fire, and His wheels like burning fire” (Daniel 7:9 MKJV).
Revelation 1:13-15 MKJV
(13) And having turned, I saw seven golden lampstands. And in the midst of the seven lampstands I saw One like the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the feet, and tied around the breast with a golden band.
(14) His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow. And His eyes were like a flame of fire.
(15) And His feet were like burnished brass having been fired in a furnace. And His voice was like the sound of many waters.
How do you make the “pure wool” a matter of texture rather than color, which is white? Who authorized you to do so, contrary to the Word? Isn't it clear John speaks of the color of the hair in verse 14 (“white like wool,” as “white as snow”)? Or do you have a problem with “white”?
Are your eyes like a flame of fire or are they bright in the whites? Take off your shoes and socks and show us if your feet are the color of burnished brass, different from the rest of your body. Let's hear your voice now and see how the black voice is like the sound of many waters.
Is the black community that troubles you hell-bent on proudly redeeming itself apart from repentance of sin? Is that it?
Acts 13:1 (meaning of Niger?)
“And in Antioch some among the existing church were prophets and teachers. (such as Barnabas, and Simeon who was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, the foster-brother of Herod the tetrarch) and Saul” (Acts 13:1 MKJV).
Your speculations take away the breath. How foolish can you possibly be in your evil surmising? Was Barnabas called “Niger”? Or Herod's foster brother, or Saul? So how does one man who is allegedly black, speculating by the name “Niger,” suddenly and conclusively make all these people black because they are Hebrews and should, therefore, be black according to your troublers? Not saying Simeon was or wasn't black; I'm saying you can't say he was.
In terms of white skin colour in contrast to the normal, original colour of the Israelites...
“And the leprosy of Naaman shall cling to you and to your seed forever. And he went out from his presence as leprous as snow” (2 Kings 5:27 MKJV).
So being leprous as snow makes Gehazi black? This is your proof?! Are you not aware that semitic people and those commonly called “whites” aren't white as snow?
Exodus 4:6-8 MKJV
(6) And the LORD said to him again, Now put your hand in your bosom. And he put his hand into his bosom. And when he took it out, behold, his hand was as leprous as snow.
(7) And He said, Put your hand into your bosom again. And he put his hand into his bosom again. And he brought it out of his bosom, and behold, it was turned again like his other flesh.
(8) And it will be, if they will not believe you, neither listen to the voice of the first sign, then they will believe the voice of the latter sign.
“And the anger of the LORD was kindled against them, and He moved. And the cloud moved from the tabernacle. And behold! Miriam became leprous, as snow. And Aaron looked on Miriam, and behold, she was leprous” (Numbers 12:9-10 MKJV).
Are you trying to tell us that a white man's hand can't be “leprous as snow” in contrast to his normal color? Really, Elwin. If there was ever an appropriate demonstration of “straining out a gnat while swallowing a camel,” aren't your interpretations of these Scriptures ideal examples? I say you are listening to very darkened, stubborn, selfish, stupid, bitter, and erring people. What do you say?
Beware, you become as the company you keep, and what are you doing to others who keep your company?
There are other instances also like how Moses was not identified as an Israelite baby as he looked just like an Egyptian baby. Otherwise the pharaoh whould have certainly had him killed. Or when Joseph's brothers didn't recognize him amongst the Egyptians. Historical facts clearly shows that the original Egyptians were black.
“Otherwise the pharaoh whould have certainly had him killed.”
Says who? You? Your carnal mind? Those who flatter and seek you for their own gain and ultimately your destruction? Answer: all of the above.
You habitually assume things without warrant. You assume that Pharaoh's daughter needed to hide from her father the fact Moses was Hebrew; that if her father did know, he wouldn't have made an exception or allowance for the daughter to have her way. How do you know she wasn't a spoiled child getting her way? After all, she did take on herself a forbidden child, didn't she? Why wouldn't you consider that fact?
Above all, you make no allowance for God's Sovereignty, His miraculous work of salvation wherein He “turns a heart whichever way He will,” be it that of the Pharaoh's daughter or the Pharaoh; He “opens doors and no man shuts and shuts doors and no man opens,” how He can blind the seeing eye and make the blind eye to see, regardless of what people desire, think, say, or do.
And, as already pointed out, the Israelites did bear a resemblance to Egyptians, because both were shades of brown, not black.
As for Joseph's brothers not recognizing him, is it not perfectly expected that after over 21 years, some of those being formative in physiology from Joseph's age of 17, that the brothers wouldn't recognize their young brother? Also there was the fact from what I'm told that Egyptians wore some make-up, and Joseph would have had some headdress that would alter appearance.
It is said that if one wishes to hide, do so in the wide open, in the least expected place and way to hide. The unlikeliest place Joseph's brothers would have expected to see him whom they despised and had sold into slavery, would be as ruler of Egypt. Again, your speculations are refuted and your wishes and hopes are dashed.
God is nowhere to be found in your confusion, Elwin. You don't believe; you have no faith. There's only one reason for that: your sin separates you from God.
Then, please explain to me how Deuteronomy 15-68 applies to the people we call Jews today. Then explain to me how it does not apply to the black people, especially the American blacks and blacks in previously colonised countries around the world.
There is no Deut. 15:68. In your irresponsible and disrespectful presentation you create work for others. It could be you're referring to:
Deuteronomy 15:6-8 MKJV
(6) For the LORD your God blesses you as He promised you. And you shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow. And you shall reign over many nations, but they shall not reign over you.
(7) If there is among you a poor man of one of your brothers inside any of your gates in your land which the LORD your God gives you, you shall not harden your heart nor shut your hand from your poor brother.
(8) But you shall open your hand wide to him, and shall surely lend him enough for his need, that which he lacks.
I still don't see what you're aiming at, but hasn't what I've said already made this point moot, whatever it is?
He walked this earth physically and therefore He had to be of a certain race, period. He had to have an appearance. What was that appearance? We can't decide what we want that appearance to be, He was either black or He wasn't,
What deductive powers, Elwin! How then did you not discern the substance and meanings of our writings?
We've all heard the expression, “scraping the bottom of the barrel,” describing desperation. Until now, I don't think I've heard of “taking the bottom of the barrel right out” to defend the obviously indefensible until now. You're giving cause for such a saying quite handily. And you say, “all I truly care about is the truth”? I don't see it, Elwin, not a whit.
Now, are you fool enough to be offended and raging mad at my blunt answer, or are you intelligent and humble enough to rightly feel so very silly for bringing up all this nonsense?
I'd like to think you could taste the goodness of God, repent, abhorring yourself as did Job when he realized how foolish he'd been. But I've seen too many people like you walk away to do their own thing, inevitably destroying themselves. Isn't that just what some Jews did when they saw Lazarus raised from the dead? Unbelief is an amazing tyrant with a powerful grip on its victims.
You say, “If we are not of the bloodline of Jacob we are not Israelites.” Have you not red these, among so many other things in the Scriptures?
“For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that outwardly in flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart; in spirit and not in letter; whose praise is not from men, but from God” (Romans 2:28-29 MKJV).
You contradict the Scriptures again and again. Must one be of the bloodline of Jacob to be an Israelite?
“If a stranger shall sojourn with you and would keep the Passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised. Then he may come near and keep it; he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it” (Exodus 12:48 ESV).
Something else to consider that declares the enormity of your error: If all blacks are Israelites as you seem to suggest, then how is the Lord's Word true when He says:
“Strive to enter in at the narrow gate. For I say to you, many will seek to enter in and shall not be able” (Luke 13:24 MKJV).
But you suggest that if your skin is black, you're in; no problem. How then, is there a necessity for striving? And it seems like a lot of blacks around, Elwin. Are they all Israelites? How many does the Lord say enter in?
“Go in through the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many there are who go in through it. Because narrow is the gate and constricted is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it” (Matthew 7:13-14 MKJV).
Is the entry requirement then one of color? You fool! I will say to you what our brother Paul said:
Romans 1:21-24 MKJV
(21) Because, knowing God, they did not glorify Him as God, neither were thankful. But they became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
(22) Professing to be wise, they became fools
(23) and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man, and birds, and four-footed animals, and creeping things.
(24) Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves.
You see how your proposed doctrine totally contradicts both letter and Spirit of the Holy Record of God.
All said, your problem isn't that your skin is black but that your heart is black.
“The light of the body is the eye. Therefore if your eye is sound, your whole body shall be full of light. But if your eye is evil, your whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness” (Matthew 6:22-23 MKJV).
“Therefore take heed that the light in you is not darkness” (Luke 11:35 MKJV).
You cling to your sins and will find a way to avoid the Truth by the cross, Elwin. Isn't that so? What are your sins and gods? Am I not dealing with a “faithless and perverse generation”?
God's will be done.
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Beryl Knipe
Re: Was Jesus Black?
Hullo, Victor
Thank you for your truthful, appropriate, correct response to Elwin. How wonderful it would be if he turned from his gods and sins and took heed of what the Lord Jesus has given you to explain to him.
Beryl.
Thank you for your truthful, appropriate, correct response to Elwin. How wonderful it would be if he turned from his gods and sins and took heed of what the Lord Jesus has given you to explain to him.
Beryl.