The Path of Truth Forum

To All Who Choose to Read;

Ray's insight on the truth of Salvation is rightly founded. The unchristian like backlash and banter that continued in the portion of the dialogue I could bear to read, proves a lack of presence of the Holy Spirit. The Truth unites those who rightly understand…and there is only “one Faith, one Baptism, one God and Father, who is in all and through all”. It cannot be that both these parties are right (however, I must acknowledge that both could be wrong).
Where all parties seemed to go wrong, was by completely overlooking the fact that Jesus and the apostles continually warned Believers of the danger of losing what they had wrought (the gift of the Holy Spirit and it's guiding influence). This can happen through various means (i.e. negligence, indifference, self-interest, desire to please men above God, etc.) all of which were instituted and are still heavily promoted by the Devil himself…the spirit of evil, whom (until the end of time) God in His infinite wisdom has allowed to attempt to deceive the Believer, and to dissuade all from seeking the Lord.
To make a beginning in the battle to overcome evil, it first takes a willingness and faith to believe God's Word, a right knowledge of sin, and a recognition that of ourselves we cannot overcome sin… this followed by a sincere request for His help (in the form of the Holy Spirit), and a public acknowledgement of your commitment to serve Him (confirmed by water Baptism). This is only the very “tip of the iceburg” (so to speak). Once we make this “beginning”, the Lord continues to reveal the depths of evil that remain in us (of which we will never be completely free of while we exist on earth… Otherwise, how and why would we continue to feel the need for Him?). Jesus asks that we “deny ourselves, take up our cross, and follow Him”. This clearly indicates an ongoing work (not a one-time revelation and confession that He is Lord, and a continuation in our old ways). A significant change must take place in the heart of the true Believer, which will ultimately present itself in a changed attitude and lifestyle.
Truly following Christ takes a constant commitment to obeying His commands, a continual death to the negative influence of our fallen and selfish human nature, and regular sincere prayer for Him to increase our Faith to “lay our cares upon Him” fully trusting in Him as our Savior and Redeemer. This is evidence that we understand, that “of ourselves we can do nothing”… we cannot overcome evil, but instead we need Him. We need Him to continually remind us that we are sinful creatures (humbled by the knowledge of His perfection), and to guide us though life by accepting His Gift of the Holy Spirit.
The scriptures dictate that there are “none that are good, no not one”… this includes Believers. Believers do still sin! “To they who know to do good and do it not…to them it is sin”…who can say (in the light of these scriptural words) that they do not sin? If there are any out there who feel they are free from sin, they are greatly deceived. None of us (who are of sound mind and therefore accountable) are free from the negative influence of sin (the evil spirit) while we are alive here on the earth. This is God's design. How can there be any glory to God, if there is not a choice? If all are saved, why would God have instituted evil? If those who confess Jesus with their lips are “saved”, but do not the things which Jesus has commanded (by living a life that displays the fruits)… are they really “saved”? I cannot find support in the scriptures for such.
In conclusion, we are all subject to spiritual failure while we maintain a sound mind in our natural life…none are exempt. God wishes that all would “come to a knowledge of the Truth”…and choose Life. The fact of the matter is, that some will choose never to embrace Christ, some will choose to embrace Him with their lips only, some will sincerely embrace Him but not be willing to continue in the Faith (for various reasons, as mentioned earlier), some will fall from Grace but realize their situation and restore their relationship with Christ, and some will embrace and remain Faithful for the remainder of their life. “…narrow is the gate that leads to Life, and few there be that find it”. Choose wisely this day (and everyday) whom you will serve!

With sincere love,

Luke

Hi Luke,

“This is only the very 'tip of the iceburg' (so to speak). Once we make this 'beginning', the Lord continues to reveal the depths of evil that remain in us (of which we will never be completely free of while we exist on earth… Otherwise, how and why would we continue to feel the need for Him?).”

Are you suggesting that once we leave this earth, we will no longer continue to feel the need for Him?

Can you not tell whether or not we have received and speak by the Spirit of God? Is it because we don't have the Spirit or that you can't discern the Spirit?

You went off the rails here:

“The unchristian like backlash and banter that continued in the portion of the dialogue I could bear to read, proves a lack of presence of the Holy Spirit.”

You go on to say:

“It cannot be that both these parties are right (however, I must acknowledge that both could be wrong).”

If you must acknowledge that both could be wrong, would you be willing to admit you could also be wrong?

You missed one possibility, the true choice, which is that one party was right in the dialogue you couldn't bear to read. So what does that say about you and the rest of your letter?

We'll let you think about it, Luke.

“And if any man thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. But if any one loves God, he has been known of Him” (1 Corinthians 8:2-3 MKJV).

Paul Cohen and Victor Hafichuk
www.ThePathofTruth.com

Hi Luke,

“This is only the very 'tip of the iceburg' (so to speak). Once we make this 'beginning', the Lord continues to reveal the depths of evil that remain in us (of which we will never be completely free of while we exist on earth… Otherwise, how and why would we continue to feel the need for Him?).”

Are you suggesting that once we leave this earth, we will no longer continue to feel the need for Him?
Of course. If we are faithful, and are accepted into heaven, we will no longer be encumbered by the negative influence of sin, so why would we feel the need for Him in the sense of our Salvation? We will be a changed being…nobody can understand how exactly that will be, but I trust we will be truly free.

Can you not tell whether or not we have received and speak by the Spirit of God? Is it because we don't have the Spirit or that you can't discern the Spirit?
By the fruits you will know the tree.

You went off the rails here:

“The unchristian like backlash and banter that continued in the portion of the dialogue I could bear to read, proves a lack of presence of the Holy Spirit.”

You go on to say:

“It cannot be that both these parties are right (however, I must acknowledge that both could be wrong).”

If you must acknowledge that both could be wrong, would you be willing to admit you could also be wrong?
It is possible, but I would have to be proven wrong.

You missed one possibility, the true choice, which is that one party was right in the dialogue you couldn't bear to read. So what does that say about you and the rest of your letter?

We'll let you think about it, Luke.

“And if any man thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. But if any one loves God, he has been known of Him” (1 Corinthians 8:2-3 MKJV).
I sense you are unwilling to consider yourself as wrong. I guess we will find out on that great day for Judgement.


Paul Cohen and Victor Hafichuk
www.ThePathofTruth.com

Luke,

You speak of yourself as one who hasn't entered Heaven, and you're right. You wrongly consider Heaven to be obtainable only after this life, contrary to the testimony of the Lord or our experience. We're in Heaven now, seated together with the saints as described by our brother, Paul:

“But God, Who is rich in mercy, for His great love with which He loved us (even when we were dead in sins) has made us alive together with Christ (by grace you are saved), and has raised us up together and made us sit together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus” (Ephesians 2:4-6 MKJV).

We possess the actual down payment of the reality you talk about yet haven't experienced and don't understand.

Being born again, we are now in Heaven even as our Lord was in Heaven as He walked the earth:

“And no one has ascended up to Heaven except He who came down from Heaven, the Son of Man Who is in Heaven.” (John 3:13 MKJV)

We are one with Him. As the Father sent Him, He said, so He has sent, and does send us.

Do we need the Lord less because He's saved us from sin and made us new creatures? On the contrary, it's by Him alone that we now live! You know nothing of God or His Scriptures - nothing at all.

“He who partakes of My flesh and drinks My blood dwells in Me, and I in him. As the living Father has sent Me, and I live through the Father, so he who partakes of Me, even he shall live by Me” (John 6:56-57 MKJV).

You don't live, Luke - you're dead in your sins and even say so (“encumbered by the negative influence of sin”). That's why you don't know whether we have the Lord's Spirit or not. The dead know nothing. What you think of as godly fruit comes from the flesh, produced by the man of sin, who, though dead, has transformed himself into a minister of righteousness (1 Corinthians 11:13-14), pretending, presuming, supposing to be a child of God.

We who are spiritual know and judge fruits and we readily see that you have never known Him Whom you profess to believe on. They that are carnal have no way of judging righteous judgment; in the darkness of this world, they err and judge by the appearance.

Judgment Day is here and has come upon you unawares. Like the Pharisees of old, you have been proven wrong, but can't see the truth, even kicking against it. And because you claim to see while rejecting His judgment, your sin remains.

“Jesus said to them, If you were blind, you would have no sin. But now you say, We see. Therefore your sin remains” (John 9:41 MKJV).

Paul and Victor

Hello Paul & Victor,
If we are in heaven, when was Judgement day? I think I must have missed it J. We ARE in heavenly places when we commit our lives to Christ, and allow His Holy Spirit to dwell within us… but if we allow ourselves to become complacent and/or tempted of evil, we will lose that heavenly influence in our lives, and also lose the Promise.

On Assurance of Salvation-
Common fallacies can include…
1.) All will be saved and go to Heaven.
2.) Once saved, always saved (You cannot have the Holy Spirit and then lose it).
3.) If you simply confess with words that Jesus is your Saviour, you will be saved.

We are only assured Salvation as long as we are faithfully and obediently abiding in Christ as our (accountable) days here on earth come to a close. Jesus and the apostles continually warn Believers of the danger of losing what they had gained (the gift of the Holy Spirit and its guiding influence). “If you think you are standing strong, be careful not to fall.” (1Cor10:12)… “Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons.” (1Tim4:1)… “But I fear that somehow your pure and undivided devotion to Christ will be corrupted, just as Eve was deceived by the cunning ways of the serpent. You happily put up with whatever anyone tells you, even if they preach a different Jesus than the one we preach, or a different kind of Spirit than the one you received, or a different kind of gospel than the one you believed” (2Cor11:3-4)… “Be careful then, dear brothers and sisters. Make sure that your own hearts are not evil and unbelieving, turning you away from the living God. You must warn each other every day, while it is still “today,” so that none of you will be deceived by sin and hardened against God. For if we are faithful to the end, trusting God just as firmly as when we first believed, we will share in all that belongs to Christ” (Heb3:12-14). The loss of the Holy Spirit can occur by various means (i.e. negligence, indifference, self-interest, desire to please men above God, legalism, etc.). All of these are heavily promoted by the Devil himself, who God has allowed to make attempt at deceiving the Believer, and also to dissuade mankind from ever truly seeking the Lord.
To make a beginning in the battle to overcome evil, first takes a willingness and faith to believe God's Word, a right knowledge of our sin, and a recognition that of ourselves we cannot overcome sin. This, followed by a sincere request for His forgiveness, acceptance of His assistance in the form of the Holy Spirit, and a public acknowledgement of your commitment to serve Him (confirmed by public water Baptism) marks the beginning of the Christian life. This however is only the 'tip of the iceberg' (so to speak). Once we make this 'beginning', the Lord continues to reveal the depths of evil that remain in us (of which we will never be completely free of while we exist on earth… Otherwise, how and why would we continue to feel the need for Him?). Jesus states “If any of you wants to be my follower, you must turn from your selfish ways, take up your cross, and follow me. If you try to hang on to your life, you will lose it. But if you give up your life for my sake, you will save it.” (Mat16:24-25). This clearly indicates an ongoing work (not a one-time revelation and confession that He is Lord). A significant change must take place in the heart of the true Believer, which will ultimately present itself in an outward change of attitude and lifestyle.
Truly following Christ takes a constant commitment to obeying His commands, a continual death to the negative influence of our fallen and selfish human nature, and regular sincere prayer for Him to increase our Faith such that we fully trust in Him as our Savior and Redeemer. This is evidence of our understanding that, “Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.”(John15:5-6). We cannot overcome evil ourselves… we need Him. We need Him to continually remind us that we are sinful creatures (humbled by the knowledge of His perfection), and to guide us though life by listening to and following His gift of the Holy Spirit.
“As the Scriptures say, No one is righteous-not even one. No one is truly wise; no one is seeking God. All have turned away; all have become useless. No one does good, not a single one.”(Rom3:10-12)… this includes Believers. Believers do still sin! And “Remember, it is sin to know what you ought to do and then not do it.” (James 4:17). Who of us can say then that they do not sin? If there are any out there who feel they are without sin, they are greatly deceived. None of us (who are of sound mind and therefore accountable to God) are free from the negative influence of sin. This is God's design. How can there be any glory to God, if there is not a personal choice? If all are saved, why would God have instituted evil? If those who confess Jesus with their lips only can be “saved”, but do not the things which Jesus has commanded (living a life in obedience to His commands that displays the fruits)… are they really “saved”? I cannot find support in the scriptures for such.
In conclusion, we are all subject to the influence of sin, and therefore spiritual failure (provided we maintain a sound mind) in our natural life… none are exempt. God wishes that “…everyone be saved and understand the truth” (1Tim2:4)… choosing eternal life over eternal damnation. However, the fact of the matter is, that some will never choose to embrace Christ, some will choose to honour Him with their lips only, some will sincerely embrace Him but will be influenced by evil to deviate from the Faith and not choose to return, some will fall from Grace but realize their situation and restore their relationship with Christ, and some will embrace and remain Faithful for the remainder of their life. Remember also, Jesus warns that “You can enter God's Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.”(Mat7:13-14). This clearly indicates that not all will be saved, and for those who are saved, it takes effort and perseverance.
Choose wisely this day (and everyday) who you will serve! There is only one righteous Judge who will make no mistakes on that great day of Judgement. As human beings residing here on earth who have made choice to follow Christ, the closest we can ever come to a definitive declaration of “I am saved”, is to state that “I am positive that Christ has the power to save me, as long as I remain steadfast and faithful to Him and His will for me”… but until we are called to Judgement, and “Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world”(Mat25:34).… we live with only a well-grounded hope of Salvation, by Faith. To state definitively “I am saved”, while still engaged in the Believer's lifetime work of spiritual battle, is to remove the authoritative and divine power of God.

I know the Good Spirit works within me… I do not need another to confirm that for me. And with the aid of His spiritual understanding, I cannot support your views. I am willing to risk my eternal destiny on my understanding of this topic. So if you choose not to agree with me, that is your decision, but I would prefer not to communicate further as it will only be unprofitable. I would, however, encourage you to pray in earnest for an open heart & mind… and (if you are sincere in this prayer), Christ will do the rest. Although I press the keys, it is not my own understanding that forms the message outlined in this correspondence.
With sincere love for your souls,
Luke

“If we are in heaven….” Who said anything about “we,” Luke? You're not in Heaven. How could you be? You've never been judged, as with those in the House of God who are born of Heaven, and established to “go out no more.”

“Him who overcomes I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will go out no more. And I will write upon him the Name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of Heaven from My God, and My New Name” (Revelation 3:12 MKJV).

What you so sanctimoniously describe as the faith of Christ are your self-righteous works and carnal knowledge of the spiritual realm. You are unsanctified and unreal. You most certainly are in sin, Luke, which those who walk by faith in Christ are not - Do Christians Sin?”

Our salvation is founded on the Rock, by God's grace alone, whereas yours is manmade and unstable as sand.

“And if the righteous one is scarcely saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear” (1 Peter 4:18 MKJV).

“And everyone who hears these sayings of Mine and does not do them shall be compared to a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain came down, and the floods came, and the wind blew and beat on that house. And it fell, and great was its fall” (Matthew 7:26-27 MKJV).

So go your way and try to find others who might be impressed by your knowledge. We are not impressed because the Lord is not. On the contrary, He is angry with your presumptuous posturing and blaspheming (calling God “it,” for example - one of several confirmations of your unregenerate state), which is utterly disgusting to Heaven.

“And I will not know the speech of those who are puffed up, but the power. For the Kingdom of God is not in word, but in power” (1 Corinthians 4:19-20 MKJV).

Paul and Victor

I can only reply with; Wow… I will pray for you.

You have never known the Lord and He has never known you. This is His message to you by us. Your prayers are an abomination to Him.

Victor