When the disciples asked Jesus, "What shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world", Jesus' response to them and to Christian believers today whom are looking for the return of Christ, was,
"Take heed that no man deceive you." "For there shall arise false Christs (ie false Christians), and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."
What are the "great signs and wonders" that Jesus was referring to? Surely he was referring to all the traditional end-time prophecies that are taught today. Prophecies regarding a "rapture", and a coming "Antichrist", and his "sitting in a temple in Jerusalem claiming to be God", and all the other prophecies regarding "the Antichrist" character.
I, for one, believe that it's all fables, and that, except for the elect, this whole end-time generation is deceived by the false prophets and by those fables.
Thouthts?
All but the Elect are False Teachers
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Paul Cohen
Re: All but the Elect are False Teachers
Hi Faye,
"Great signs and wonders" are apparent miracles - things beyond the normal abilities of men to produce. For example, when God sent Moses and Aaron to set His people free from Egyptian bondage, He gave them to perform certain miraculous signs. Yet we also see that Pharaoh's magicians were able to duplicate a few of these wonders. Nevertheless, the magicians couldn't keep up or compete with God, and even came to admit they couldn't because Moses and Aaron operated by His Hand.
When the Word of God was preached to the Samaritans (Acts 8), there was a man among them named Simon, who had been acclaimed by them all as "the great power of God" because of the signs and wonders he performed by sorcery. He was exposed and rebuked by Peter.
There are preachers today who use the Name of the Lord to do wonders, claiming to operate by the "Word of Faith." They deceive many by their witchcraft. Read God Is Sovereign: Man Is Presumptuous.
As for the end-time prophecies and carnal interpretations of Scriptures that give false hope, such as the "rapture" error, those may accompany the signs of false teachers, but aren't in themselves wonders.
Paul
"Great signs and wonders" are apparent miracles - things beyond the normal abilities of men to produce. For example, when God sent Moses and Aaron to set His people free from Egyptian bondage, He gave them to perform certain miraculous signs. Yet we also see that Pharaoh's magicians were able to duplicate a few of these wonders. Nevertheless, the magicians couldn't keep up or compete with God, and even came to admit they couldn't because Moses and Aaron operated by His Hand.
When the Word of God was preached to the Samaritans (Acts 8), there was a man among them named Simon, who had been acclaimed by them all as "the great power of God" because of the signs and wonders he performed by sorcery. He was exposed and rebuked by Peter.
There are preachers today who use the Name of the Lord to do wonders, claiming to operate by the "Word of Faith." They deceive many by their witchcraft. Read God Is Sovereign: Man Is Presumptuous.
As for the end-time prophecies and carnal interpretations of Scriptures that give false hope, such as the "rapture" error, those may accompany the signs of false teachers, but aren't in themselves wonders.
Paul
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Paul Cohen
Re: All but the Elect are False Teachers
An example on our site of one coming with signs and wonders, along with sensational prophecies, is the false prophet David Owuor.
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Faye Corman
Re: All but the Elect are False Teachers
Oh, I don't believe that for a moment! And here's the reason why.Paul Cohen wrote:Hi Faye,
"Great signs and wonders" are apparent miracles - things beyond the normal abilities of men to produce.
In their descriptions of end-time false prophets, neither Paul, nor Timothy, nor Peter described them as being able to perform miracles beyond the mormal abilities of men.
In Romans 1, Paul described God's people and the end-time false prophets as that of "fools who changed the truth of God into a lie."
And Timothy, in 2nd Timothy 4:3,4, described the end-time false prophets as that of "teachers with itching ears, who turned the true meaning of the end-time prophecies into fables.
And Peter, in 2nd Peter 2:1-3 described the end-time false prophets as those who "bring in damnable heresies, and who, with feigned words shall make merchandise of their followers."
Peter went on to say that "many" would follow their teachings because the true meaning of the end-time scriptures would be spoken of as evil.
So you see, not once did Paul, or Timothy, or Peter, define the end-time false prophets as being able to perform miracles of any sort.
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Paul Cohen
Re: All but the Elect are False Teachers
You failed to mention the Lord Himself, Faye, as per the quote you first presented here:So you see, not once did Paul, or Timothy, or Peter, define the end-time false prophets as being able to perform miracles of any sort.
“Take heed that no man deceive you… For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect” (Matthew 24:4,24 KJV).
Here is the meaning of the Greek word rendered as “signs”:
Signs: sēmeion
say-mi'-on
Neuter of a presumed derivative of the base of G4591; an indication, especially ceremonially or supernaturally: - miracle, sign, token, wonder.
The same word is used in this Scripture, describing what Jesus did among the people of Israel:
“Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by Him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know” (Acts 2:22 KJV).
Your reinterpretation of words, Faye, has no merit or foundation in the Scriptures. You’ve also drawn unsubstantiated and faulty conclusions about the words of the apostles regarding false teachers.
In Romans 1, Paul isn’t writing about false teachers per se, but all who suppress the truth in unrighteousness:
“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven upon all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness” (Romans 1:18 EMTV).
In Second Timothy we see once again that Paul isn’t addressing false teachers per se, but those who are deceived by such:
“For a time will be when they will not endure sound doctrine, but they will heap up teachers to themselves according to their own lusts, tickling the ear. And they will turn away their ears from the truth and will be turned to myths” (2 Timothy 4:3-4 MKJV).
Those who refuse the truth are subject to being deceived by lying signs and wonders.
As for Peter, all he was doing was warning the believers that false teachers would be promoting damnable heresies that would derail them from faith in Christ if believed and followed. Peter says nothing about whether some of those false teachers would come with signs and wonders. That was already established by the Lord Jesus Christ. “Behold, I have told you beforehand” (Matthew 24:25 MKJV).
Also, Peter said nothing about “end-time” Scriptures. He was talking about the Lord Jesus Christ, “the Way of Truth,” being evil spoken of. You’re looking at things carnally, not spiritually, adding and subtracting from the Scriptures. Not good, not good at all.
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Faye Corman
Re: All but the Elect are False Teachers
Paul, If you wanna believe that the "false prophets" Jesus warned about in the last days, are prophets that perform miracles, you have every right to do so. And I have every right to believe that Jesus was referring to today's false prophecy teachers who teach false doctrines. They would include ALL modern-day preachers and prophecy teachers, because they ALL teach basically the same doctrines regarding the end-time scriptures, particularly those scriptures regarding the man of lawlessness. They ALL teach that he is one man, and that he's called "the Antichrist". They ALL teach that he will make a peace treaty with Israel, and will break the treaty. And that, he will take away the reinstated animal sacrifices in Israel. And that, he will sit in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, claiming to be God. And that, he will go after the Christian Jews to kill them, and so fort and so on. Every prophecy teacher I'm aware of, teach these false doctrines, and every Evangelical Christian believes those doctrines. Which is the reason why Jesus said, they would deceive even the elect if that were possible.
None of today's prophecy teachers teach the truth concerning the man of lawlessness. None teach that he is that race of man which descended from Cain. If that be the case, and I'm confident that it is, then all of their other doctrines are false as well. Thus, the reason why they're called "false prophets" and "false teachers" in the scriptures, and the reason why Jesus warned us to not be deceived by them.
None of today's prophecy teachers teach the truth concerning the man of lawlessness. None teach that he is that race of man which descended from Cain. If that be the case, and I'm confident that it is, then all of their other doctrines are false as well. Thus, the reason why they're called "false prophets" and "false teachers" in the scriptures, and the reason why Jesus warned us to not be deceived by them.
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Paul Cohen
Re: All but the Elect are False Teachers
Faye, we're not saying false teachers don't teach the falsehoods you say they teach. We don't argue that point. We're saying the signs and wonders aren't fables and fables aren't signs and wonders, as defined in the Greek of the New Testament and in commonly established dictionaries of the English language. And we certainly declare that signs and wonders continue in this day, as always. Satan's powers to deceive have not diminished or changed in that regard.
You're setting up and fighting a straw man. You've made an argument that has no justification in the matters at hand. The question is "Why?" What is your agenda? What is it you're trying to prove? What is it you think we should know that we don't already know? Are you so set on your opinion on what the signs and wonders spoken in the Scriptures are that you ignore the facts we've given you? Why?
No, Faye, contrary to popular belief of the world, nobody has the right to believe whatever they “wanna” believe, especially those who take the Name of the Lord upon themselves.
You haven’t properly characterized what I’ve stated or believe, but that isn’t the issue here. The issue isn’t false prophets with their diabolical doctrines and fantasy notions of end times. The real issue is Who we believe and who you believe.
The prophecy teachers of today don’t teach the truth concerning the man of lawlessness, but neither do you. YOU are the man of lawlessness, that man of sin, the son of perdition sitting on the throne presuming to be God, just as are all men in their carnality.
Demonizing one race, as did William Branham and as do others, is only the flip side of exalting another race, which you do to justify yourself - thereby attributing favor with God by carnal genealogy. God's salvation program doesn't work that way; He is no respecter of persons.
You err, Faye, not knowing the Scriptures or the Power of God. This would suggest you aren't justified by the blood of Christ and faith in Him, but rather, your trust is in your flesh and fleshly doctrine, which are corrupt.
You have much to learn of the Lord Jesus Christ, of His glorious Gospel, grace, and goodness. Consider that it's time for you to humble yourself, take a lower seat, and try to learn rather than to instruct.
You're setting up and fighting a straw man. You've made an argument that has no justification in the matters at hand. The question is "Why?" What is your agenda? What is it you're trying to prove? What is it you think we should know that we don't already know? Are you so set on your opinion on what the signs and wonders spoken in the Scriptures are that you ignore the facts we've given you? Why?
No, Faye, contrary to popular belief of the world, nobody has the right to believe whatever they “wanna” believe, especially those who take the Name of the Lord upon themselves.
You haven’t properly characterized what I’ve stated or believe, but that isn’t the issue here. The issue isn’t false prophets with their diabolical doctrines and fantasy notions of end times. The real issue is Who we believe and who you believe.
The prophecy teachers of today don’t teach the truth concerning the man of lawlessness, but neither do you. YOU are the man of lawlessness, that man of sin, the son of perdition sitting on the throne presuming to be God, just as are all men in their carnality.
Demonizing one race, as did William Branham and as do others, is only the flip side of exalting another race, which you do to justify yourself - thereby attributing favor with God by carnal genealogy. God's salvation program doesn't work that way; He is no respecter of persons.
You err, Faye, not knowing the Scriptures or the Power of God. This would suggest you aren't justified by the blood of Christ and faith in Him, but rather, your trust is in your flesh and fleshly doctrine, which are corrupt.
You have much to learn of the Lord Jesus Christ, of His glorious Gospel, grace, and goodness. Consider that it's time for you to humble yourself, take a lower seat, and try to learn rather than to instruct.
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Tyler Nylund
Re: All but the Elect are False Teachers
Yall are totally foolish. Jesus said to follow me. Nothing u say or do (the people who started this bogus forum) looks anything like the life of Christ. Yall need to get back to the basics and quit pretending like u know it all. Its gonna be a sad day when he says depart from me i never knew you. Its time to repent of your awful pride and receive hos humility. The religion on you (mr know it all) attitudes make me sick. The end
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Paul Cohen
Re: All but the Elect are False Teachers
And who are you?
Matthew 7:21-23 MKJV
(21) Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven.
(22) Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your Name, and through Your Name throw out demons, and through Your Name do many wonderful works?
(23) And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness!
You're the one now saying to the Lord Jesus Christ, "I ate and drank in Your presence; I have believed on You and the Scriptures; I have believed Your servants; through Your Name I’ve done wonderful works; You have taught in our streets."
But know this: YOU are the one to whom the Lord now speaks and says, "I tell you, I never knew you. Depart from Me, worker of lawlessness!"
Victor
"Now the chief priests and the whole council were seeking testimony against Jesus, in order to put Him to death, but found none" (Mark 14:55 EMTV).
Paul
Matthew 7:21-23 MKJV
(21) Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven.
(22) Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your Name, and through Your Name throw out demons, and through Your Name do many wonderful works?
(23) And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness!
You're the one now saying to the Lord Jesus Christ, "I ate and drank in Your presence; I have believed on You and the Scriptures; I have believed Your servants; through Your Name I’ve done wonderful works; You have taught in our streets."
But know this: YOU are the one to whom the Lord now speaks and says, "I tell you, I never knew you. Depart from Me, worker of lawlessness!"
Victor
We're not pretending, Tyler - you are. You give a false appearance of speaking the truth but have no substance. Not only that, this Forum and our website answers and condemns your charges. Even if you were to try to validate your accusations, you're already shot down.Yall need to get back to the basics and quit pretending like u know it all.
"Now the chief priests and the whole council were seeking testimony against Jesus, in order to put Him to death, but found none" (Mark 14:55 EMTV).
Paul
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Faye Corman
Re: All but the Elect are False Teachers
Jesus said that in the end-times the false prophecy teachers would show great signs and wonders, meaning that they would give many false interpretations of the end-time scripturesPaul Cohen wrote:Faye, we're not saying false teachers don't teach the falsehoods you say they teach. We don't argue that point. We're saying the signs and wonders aren't fables and fables aren't signs and wonders, as defined in the Greek of the New Testament and in commonly established dictionaries of the English language.
You're setting up and fighting a straw man. You've made an argument that has no justification in the matters at hand.
Just saying that there is no coming "Antichrist" or false messiah, which most, if not all of today's preachers and prophecy teachers are peddling.
No, Faye, contrary to popular belief of the world, nobody has the right to believe whatever they “wanna” believe, especially those who take the Name of the Lord upon themselves.
The GOOD LORD will judge if my beliefs are true or not.
You haven’t properly characterized what I’ve stated or believe, but that isn’t the issue here. The issue isn’t false prophets with their diabolical doctrines and fantasy notions of end times. The real issue is Who we believe and who you believe.
Speak for yourself! I believe the scriptures, and scriptures describes the man of lawlessness as that of "the ten horns", making a liar out of all those who teach that the man of lawlessness is one man, and that he's called "the Antichrist". THAT'S the issue that I'm trying to get across.
The prophecy teachers of today don’t teach the truth concerning the man of lawlessness, but neither do you. YOU are the man of lawlessness, that man of sin, the son of perdition sitting on the throne presuming to be God, just as are all men in their carnality.
YOU don't know what you're talking about.
Demonizing one race, as did William Branham and as do others, is only the flip side of exalting another race, which you do to justify yourself - thereby attributing favor with God by carnal genealogy. God's salvation program doesn't work that way; He is no respecter of persons.
That's right. When it comes to salvation God is "no respecter of persons, but that's not the issue. The issue is that of today's false prophets, ie false prophecy teachers who teach that the man of lawlessness is one man who's called "the Antichrist", whereas the BIBLE describes the man of lawlessness as that of "the ten horns", meaning a people. To be exact, a race of people.
Wrong. I've spent the past 45 years in the study of the prophetic scriptures. How many years have YOU spent studying them?You err, Faye, not knowing the Scriptures or the Power of God. This would suggest you aren't justified by the blood of Christ and faith in Him, but rather, your trust is in your flesh and fleshly doctrine, which are corrupt.
And YOU have much to learn of the prophetic scriptures involving that race called man of lawlessness, and concerning the nation and people whom are serving/worshipping that race today. In the meantime you need to stop judging me/my salvation.You have much to learn of the Lord Jesus Christ, of His glorious Gospel, grace, and goodness. Consider that it's time for you to humble yourself, take a lower seat, and try to learn rather than to instruct.
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Paul Cohen
Re: All but the Elect are False Teachers
You just proved my point, Faye. You worship the Scriptures and serve yourself, not the Living God and Lord Jesus Christ.'You err, Faye, not knowing the Scriptures or the Power of God. This would suggest you aren't justified by the blood of Christ and faith in Him, but rather, your trust is in your flesh and fleshly doctrine, which are corrupt.'
Wrong. I've spent the past 45 years in the study of the prophetic scriptures. How many years have YOU spent studying them?
Victor says of you: "I see great bitterness and hatred with her, which makes her blind and misdirects her focus. Condemning, she is condemned."
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Adams Ikang
Re: All but the Elect are False Teachers
please i don't intend the negative way. i want to know something here.
Having gone through some of your exploration and vindication. In which
authority is this forum built? Is it in the Spirit of God or Self-Desired
Way of worshiping and convincing populace on the reality of today and
the assumed nonconformity of today's teachings with the real word of
God?
I may be wrong but i want to get where you got your conviction and
what are your backups? I mean the Spirit of God or how?
thanks.
Adams.
Having gone through some of your exploration and vindication. In which
authority is this forum built? Is it in the Spirit of God or Self-Desired
Way of worshiping and convincing populace on the reality of today and
the assumed nonconformity of today's teachings with the real word of
God?
I may be wrong but i want to get where you got your conviction and
what are your backups? I mean the Spirit of God or how?
thanks.
Adams.
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Victor Hafichuk
- Posts: 749
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:07 am
Re: All but the Elect are False Teachers
Adams, we speak in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ by His Spirit and Direction.
Read at our site and pray, if you will. Turn from your pride, gods, and sin.
Isaiah 1:16-20 MKJV
(16) Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean; put away the evil of your doings from before My eyes; cease to do evil;
(17) learn to do good; seek judgment, reprove the oppressor. Judge the orphan, plead for the widow.
(18) Come now, and let us reason together, says the LORD; though your sins are as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be like wool.
(19) If you are willing and obedient, you shall eat the good of the land;
(20) but if you refuse and rebel, you shall be devoured with the sword; for the mouth of the LORD has spoken.
Isaiah 55:6-13 MKJV
(6) Seek the LORD while He may be found; call on Him while He is near.
(7) Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; and let him return to the LORD, and He will have mercy on him; and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon.
(8) For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor your ways My ways, says the LORD.
(9) For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.
(10) For as the rain comes down, and the snow from the heavens, and does not return there, but waters the earth, and makes it bring out and bud, and give seed to the sower and bread to the eater;
(11) so shall My Word be, which goes out of My mouth; it shall not return to Me void, but it shall accomplish what I please, and it shall certainly do what I sent it to do.
(12) For you shall go out with joy, and be led out with peace; the mountains and the hills shall break out before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.
(13) Instead of the thorn, the fir tree shall come up; and instead of the brier, the myrtle tree shall come up; and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting sign which shall not be cut off.
Read at our site and pray, if you will. Turn from your pride, gods, and sin.
Isaiah 1:16-20 MKJV
(16) Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean; put away the evil of your doings from before My eyes; cease to do evil;
(17) learn to do good; seek judgment, reprove the oppressor. Judge the orphan, plead for the widow.
(18) Come now, and let us reason together, says the LORD; though your sins are as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be like wool.
(19) If you are willing and obedient, you shall eat the good of the land;
(20) but if you refuse and rebel, you shall be devoured with the sword; for the mouth of the LORD has spoken.
Isaiah 55:6-13 MKJV
(6) Seek the LORD while He may be found; call on Him while He is near.
(7) Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; and let him return to the LORD, and He will have mercy on him; and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon.
(8) For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor your ways My ways, says the LORD.
(9) For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.
(10) For as the rain comes down, and the snow from the heavens, and does not return there, but waters the earth, and makes it bring out and bud, and give seed to the sower and bread to the eater;
(11) so shall My Word be, which goes out of My mouth; it shall not return to Me void, but it shall accomplish what I please, and it shall certainly do what I sent it to do.
(12) For you shall go out with joy, and be led out with peace; the mountains and the hills shall break out before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.
(13) Instead of the thorn, the fir tree shall come up; and instead of the brier, the myrtle tree shall come up; and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting sign which shall not be cut off.