Facing excommunication - The Lord is so good!

[Emma]

Hi Victor and Paul .

My name is Emma, I'm from Australia, I love the Lord, and I've been reading through your website with genuine interest. My interest arises on behalf of my husband, who was bought up in the Dutch Reformed tradition. I myself identify with no 'denomination,' only as a believer in Jesus Christ the Lord!

Firstly, thank you for the time and care taken by you and your friends to put it all together. I sense the deep conviction behind the words written on this site and appreciate the seriousness with which they are written. May they be used for the Lords purpose .

I came to your site through my research on Calvinism, and I am grateful for it. I found your article outlining who Calvin really was so revealing, and it led me to further research which confirms your depiction of this man as at base, evil. I am amazed (but then, not surprised) that such evil has become so institutionalised as acceptable 'religion.' It is so anti Christ! so the opposite of everything He taught as true - love! - I am amazed that anyone who has actually read a bible, ever, is able to hold onto it. How do they not see? Why would they even want it?! Oh I find it so frustrating! And yet I know they are blinded, and not by themselves, and I know Jesus has got it, and I can just trust that! It's hard not to get frustrated sometimes though! Im trying! .

Basically, I am looking into these things because my husband feels he needs to unbind himself spiritually from the Reformed Church. This has been a back and forth issue within him for years, but I think Jesus might be now bringing it to a head, as my husband is now looking into how to retract his RC 'membership.' A basic history; Jason was baptised as a baby and did a 'profession' as a 20 year old. From that time on he didn't life a life of 'commitment' to the RC at all (ie no church attendance etc), and although they pursued him originally to attend, or transfer church membership, they eventually let it lie and so it has, for the past 20 odd years. In case you are wondering how I fit into this story, I met Jason about one month before his profession, after the classes had been done and the date had been set. So I saw him do his profession that day. I was 16 at the time.

I knew the first time I entered that church that something was wrong there, I'll never forget that green book of 'forms' and what that meant to me, this was not the love of Jesus I'd been bought up to know, He didn't have 'forms' to dictate how people should love him, and especially not to kick people out from his love! I couldn't believe there was a form to excommunicate people, and they claimed this was Jesus!

I didn't hide my mind or thoughts from Jason, and he agreed, claiming he had no real affection for this system, and that he'd just always done what was 'expected' of him by his family and the church and had always been looking forward to getting away from it. Jason did not exhibit the same as his parents, he saw the Lord (or at least wanted to!) as showing us love and thus freedom from 'rules', and not as the remote tyrant his parents religion claimed God was. So we were married, and never had anything personal to do with the RC again really. After they originally had to accept (at least on the surface) that Jason would not transfer a membership or attend, they seemed to drift away and leave him alone, and we've only attended for the odd family event since then. The elders did 'visit' when both our sons was born to try to convince Jase to get them baptised, but the last was 17 years ago. He is not sure what the church considers to be his 'status' now, but says he intends to ring today and find out. I am almost nervous for him!

Jason and I were baptised in the ocean about 5 years ago. I always wanted to follow my Lords example in that way and am so happy I did! It was the beginning of a much more intimate and real relationship between myself and Jesus Christ as my saviour, and I would never go back, praise him!

But for Jason, that baptism began a really difficult, confusing and consuming inner battle within him, a battle between the old and the new. It has been a brutal battle, we have faltered much, but I want to see my Lord reign unchallenged in my husbands life so much, and so does Jason! So, with that end in mind, we are reading your site. I trust that you will hear and see in spirit what is happening with Jason, and myself, and see that we genuinely want to cut this spirit off. It's been a long road even to here.

I hope the above has given you enough of a feel for who I am, and where I am coming from, to offer any advice you may have about what you think Jason or myself would be best to do in this. He fully believes he needs to separate from the RC formally, is there a wise way to do this in your opinion? Jason believes Jesus has shown him that he made a covenant with a man made church in his profession of faith, and that Jesus wants him to break this. Do you have any insight you could offers us about how this could be done? I feel deeply that Jason is now ready to do whatever he needs to, to do what is required to go all out for Jesus, but he's not sure how to do it or what exactly he should do. I wondered if you could offer any advice? But only if the Lords spirit is stirred to do so, of course . Outside of His stirring it would fail anyway!

Irregardless of any insight you may or not have about all this, I truly do want to thank you Victor and Paul for the work you've done and the great wealth of information I have gleaned in reading through it. Thank you for being brave, honest, and true to yourselves and the Lords call as you discern it. I wish you well in your purpose. Calvinism is so deeply and insidiously entrenched, that I believe it will take such hard, unwavering views as yours to challenge it in any meaningful way. God Bless all those who hear and do His will.

Thank you for taking the time to read this. May you continue to stand strong in these last days, along with all members of the Lords true church.
Much love,
Emma .

[Paul Cohen]

Hi Emma and Jason, Paul here.

Have you red the following writing on our site? I think you'll find it illuminating and inspirational:

http://www.thepathoftruth.com/falsehood-exposed/reform-churches/reform-church-excommunication.htm

Let us know how things go - we're certainly involved and interested. All believers are joined in common cause and the faith of the One Who died for all, the Lord Jesus Christ. Let Truth prevail!

I've copied below the reply Victor sent you in a Word file:


“I beseech you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, pleasing to God, which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, in order to prove by you what is that good and pleasing and perfect will of God” (Romans 12:1-2 MKJV).

Hello Emma!

Good to hear what the Lord is doing with you! There's much to be thankful for and excited about! You're on the path.

You say, “I am amazed that anyone who has actually read a bible, ever, is able to hold onto it. How do they not see? Why would they even want it?!”

It is known as the mystery of iniquity. Yes, it is truly amazing. The prince of this world has blinded people and unless the Lord moves, they remain bound in darkness, in hell and death. That's the way it is.

You say you've red our section on Calvin and Reform churches? You and your husband may also wish to read Counterfeit Christianity and The Case for Coming Out. Yes, Jason needs to come out; it is a solemn directive of the Lord; it's for your lives that you need to separate yourselves. They will tell you it's to your death, but you need to believe God and not men.

2 Corinthians 6:14-18 MKJV
(14) Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers; for what fellowship does righteousness have with lawlessness? And what partnership does light have with darkness?
(15) And what agreement does Christ have with Belial? Or what part does a believer have with an unbeliever?
(16) And what agreement does a temple of God have with idols? For you are the temple of the living God, as God has said, "I will dwell in them and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."
(17) Therefore come out from among them and be separated, says the Lord, and do not touch the unclean thing. And I will receive you
(18) and I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.

“I trust that you will hear and see in spirit what is happening with Jason, and myself, and see that we genuinely want to cut this spirit off. It's been a long road even to here.”

I hear you, Emma. Believe and obey; it's the only way. I understand the challenge of coming out of a church one has been born and raised in; however, it's no problem for the Lord. And THAT'S the issue - you must put your faith squarely in Jesus Christ. He promised the gates of hell would not prevail against His Body, the true church. I'm persuaded He knows what He's talking about!

“And I heard another voice from Heaven, saying, Come out of her, My people, that you may not be partakers of her sins, and that you may not receive of her plagues” (Revelation 18:4 MKJV).

“I hope the above has given you enough of a feel for who I am, and where I am coming from, to offer any advice you may have about what you think Jason or myself would be best to do in this.”

You've succeeded; you've done very well in your expression, with the Lord's help, no doubt.

“He fully believes he needs to separate from the RC formally, is there a wise way to do this in your opinion? Jason believes Jesus has shown him that he made a covenant with a man made church in his profession of faith, and that Jesus wants him to break this. Do you have any insight you could offers us about how this could be done?”

Jason is absolutely right and now he must exercise resolve. Be honest, straightforward and without apology. He's under no obligation to get anyone's permission to obey the Lord; however, if he feels he must give the church notice that the Lord is calling him out, fine. Just know there will be opposition because as you step out, the powers of darkness will seek to stifle faith and obedience, and so it must be - your faith must be tried. It's the way the Lord has set it all up. Your faith must pass through the fires, like clay is fired in a kiln to establish it in strength.

Not easy, but in Him, nothing is impossible. Be decisive, stand firm, don't be afraid of man, but look to the Lord for faith, wisdom and strength, and He'll be faithful to give them to you. It may not look that way, but it will be so.

“For the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those being lost, but to us being saved, it is the power of God” (1 Corinthians 1:18 MKJV).

“In God I have put my trust; I will not be afraid of what man can do to me” (Psalms 56:11 MKJV).

“A Psalm of David. The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? The LORD is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid” (Psalms 27:1 MKJV)?

Let us know what the Lord does for you. And give thanks for everything. Don't cease to give thanks. I know of no greater weapon or vehicle of spiritual sustenance than thanksgiving and praise. Those are the finest and most effective of ways to confess Jesus as Lord.

On the lighter side, how many times have you been told you have the honor of being at the very end of a letter or files list? You've made it to ours!

And Emma, thank you for your words of encouragement and blessing! The Lord mightily bless you both!

Victor

[Emma]

Hello again Victor!

Thank you very much for your considered and thoughtful response. It arrived in the perfect timing of the Lord, He's so good! Your thoughts and encouragement are truly appreciated by us, and the scriptures you've pointed to very pertinent to our situation. As are the articles you suggested, we have both now read these and found them accurate and thought provoking.

I would like you to know Victor, that your time, thoughts and your encouragement are not wasted on us, and thank you .

As it stands today, Jason has written a letter explaining his position as he sees it (ie - he retracts his profession of faith and why) and asking to be taken off any membership list. He wants to hand the letter personally and so has an appointment (tonight actually!) with the church pastor. From the moment Jason set up that appointment, there was a sense in both of us that Jason had obeyed Jesus as he was directed to, and that there is now peace in the Spirit of the Lord no matter what happens from here.

We know that what follows from here will be whatever He wills to show from all this in the world of 'men' (not that they see it this way, so convinced are they that they are themselves God, ha! ). It may go quietly, it may not, it's up to Him, praise His beautiful name!

Jason feels a strong desire that they remove him from their 'list' and they don't do that easily, excommunication is usually what it takes, but in principle Jason feels they have no right to keep him listed as a communicant member in a 'body' he doesn't believe in. He is not fearful of being excommunicated, if anything I wonder if he perhaps desires for it to go that way! I feel if it is to get heavy, it will likely be on this point, and that Jason (and myself!) may possibly be tested regarding discerning human issues as opposed to the Lords. But whatever happens, I know it is for our good .

We will be sure to inform you how this turns out, especially if it ends up a 'thing.' My feeling is there may be a lot of correspondence with the RC, over quite some time. If so, perhaps you will be able to make use of it as a warning/example for others. We shall see what the Lord wills! But we will definitely tell you the outcome .

You are very right Victor, I am well acquainted with being last on all kinds of name records! And also with spelling my surname before I even speak it, or it is often mistakenly begun with an S! And then the question 'Where does that come from?' is sure to follow! I don't mind at all though, it's often been a nice lead in to conversation . Your last name has possibly attracted some of the same to you, at least in terms of spelling!

Since first writing to you and Paul, I've had the opportunity to peruse much more of your website (including your book), Jason is also now reading through it. I have found it fascinating, refreshing, challenging and affirming Victor, what an interesting life you have led to the Lord! I confess I'm very much an 'information junkie,' with quite a bit of time on my hands at the moment, and so over the past week or so I have consumed a copious amount, if not most of the information on your site (really!). I don't think I've ever come across someone that I agree with on so much to do with Jesus and Truth, my two favourite topics .

Even where I had not previously considered a certain angle or insight offered in your papers, I find I am not able to easily discount it (as with so many supposed 'christian writings' I read), but instead am often stirred to consider it further. This is good, challenge is good, I am glad I found your site. I am more convinced even than I was originally, that you do a good work Victor. Not that you need or seek approval (which is commended in itself), but for all your detractors (and I have seen that there are many), I want you to know of the spiritual support you attract also. I am nobody, but Jesus my Lord is somebody and He loves those who help His. This is not a little thing .

I am slightly struck by some of the similarities between us Victor as I read your story! We share the dubious (?) honour of an April 1st birthdate! Although mine was in 1976 . I understand what this birthday is like, it becomes almost a scary day in some ways! I hadn't specifically noted it before reading your book, but as I look back, I can see how the Lord has shaped my personality through the experience of 'toughing out' that birthdate during childhood. Thanks for that insight!

I am also the oldest of four sisters, no brother in my case. Like yourself, my Mum says I was born asking 'why?' and never stopped (I loved your line about an 'oral birthmark' in your book - our poor parents! ).

All my life I have felt a significant inner pull to spiritual things, in Jesus. At 8, I read alone the story of Solomon asking for wisdom instead of riches etc, I was so impressed I immediately asked Jesus to make me like that too. It's 32 years later, and after allowing me to learn, follow and fail in the 'knowledge of the world' posing as 'wisdom,' He then gave me the grace to know that I know nothing, and therefore the humility to hear true Wisdom from Him. Praise Him! He's so good!!!

I've had spiritual dreams all my life. I saw Jesus in a dream at about 3 (I remember it vividly). I am often spoken to in and by dreams, and can see now that I have often been warned about what will happen. As I mature, so does my understanding of what each dream means, both past and new. I am still learning to understand this, especially regarding what role the enemy plays in this area.

Like you, I battle inside about hearing Him vs hearing myself. I know it's Him but what if it isn't! (Oh these crazy heads of us humans ). Real faith truly is simple, yet so difficult! A mustard seed indeed! He is teaching me much about all this, especially as it relates to my being a female. I look forward to His leading . I have always been able to quickly discern the big picture 'issues' whether in people or debate, and as maturity has led me to submit myself under Christ, He is able to use this to His own purpose (instead of me squandering it on worldly knowledge). I'm ready to do what He wants when He shows me!

Like you, Jesus told me a while ago that 'religion' today is the same Baal worship spoken of in the bible, and has the same ancient demonic spirit(s) behind it. I just read an article today on your site that expressed a similar view. Now instead of the fake god Baal, they have their fake 'st jesus' (my sarcasm! ) to suit the itching ears. So Victor, we share an understanding on this along with many other 'non-conventional' understandings of our Lord. It's a joy to read you and find a brother in Christ! . Thank you for putting some Truth on the net! .

I also started a blog about two years ago called "Where The Paths Meet." I think it changed to Wisdoms Well in the end, although I never wrote in it, maybe one day! I have a similar urge to yourself, to call Truth amongst the darkness in some way, I suppose, but have not found a direction for it yet. I would like to, in many ways you have inspired me, at the very least to renewed thinking about it!

In many ways I can relate to you Victor. This is not usual, as my understanding of life and belief in Jesus as truth has always stood out as unique, both within and outside of 'religion.' My understanding does not really 'fit' anywhere and never has, (nor would I want it to, bar with pleasing my Jesus!). Although my understanding of Him was born from a unique family, apart from them I don't really meet people who think like me - ie; unconstrained by religion yet fully constrained by the love of Christ. So it's just really good to meet you Victor .

I have joined your site forum, and Jason and I hope to look at your Saturday chat room, once I work out the time difference for Australia! I hope you do not mind me writing you again, or the more personal tone of this letter. I have been thinking for a while what I wanted to say to you in this letter, and felt led to write in friendship this time, solidarity even .

I will definitely let you know how Jason's letter goes down, he asked me to go with him so Jesus is working with me today on being quiet tonight . Not always my forte Victor! But perhaps at times it is my strength, also . Please do not feel you need to answer this letter, you spend much time writing so should take a break where you can! My purpose this time is truly only to thank you, and to assure you that your work attracts not only the condemnation of devils, but also the approval of saints . Also, it is great to meet somebody else who thinks like me, and struggles with many of the same things as i do. It's an encouragement. Praise the Lord for it!

Take care Victor. If there is ever anything you require help with, please feel welcome to ask here . God Bless you.

Love Emma xo

[Emma]

Hello again Paul!

Thank you so much for your response, and encouragement. The article you pointed out, about Martin's excommunication, was indeed an illuminating and inspiring read! In a way, the presumptuousness of the letter excommunicating Martin is almost humorous in some respects! But the spirit of hatred and arrogance behind it is ugly and evil. Martins story definitely encouraged Jason, especially the part where after outlining the 'profession' he was required to make, Martin stated: "I now realise I lied." This mindset resonated with Jason and became the basis from which he wrote a letter to the RC retracting his profession of faith, explaining why and asking they delete him from all membership records.

He actually has an appointment with the RC pastor tonight to give them this letter, he felt he needed to deliver it personally. Jason is very determined they take him off their list, and while hopefully they just agree to this, it's possible they will not and my feeling is Jason will not accept no as an answer. This may well end in excommunication for Jason too! We know it will play out as the Lord wills it to, and that while Jason's allegiance to the Lord is solid, possibly others may need to see, who knows! Jason has already explained the situation to his mother (his dad died a few years ago), and while she is concerned she is also more open to Jason's understanding than we thought. May the Lord do great things here!

And finally, Paul, I'd like to say personally that you are great to read as a warrior for the Lord! As I've written to Victor, since my first letter I've had lots of opportunity to read through TPOT in its depth. Blog Wars have quickly become one of my favourite reads and here, you are on fire! I just finished reading the whole 'Joy of Gay Sex' saga and was truly impressed with your work, here and in all the 'debates' I have read on your site (and on others). Your persistence, confidence and use of logical argument make you a very formidable foe! It seems it might be something in the name, Paul .

Thanks again for your email Paul, and for all the work you do. I have now joined the forum, and Jason and I hope to join a Saturday meeting there one day.

Take care of yourself and God Bless!

Love Emma xo

[Victor Hafichuk]

Hi Emma!

Well, we certainly do have much in common in many ways, don't we? I bless the Lord for that and hope He brings us into fellowship in Him all the way.

We very much enjoyed your letter and are waiting to see how Jason and you navigate through this challenging time in your lives concerning the Reform church you've been associated with for so long.

How did that appointment go? I hope Jason realizes that he has absolutely nothing to fear, not with God on his side, and as he honors the Lord, the Lord will surely be faithful to honor him. That is Law; it's the Lord's way and can never be any other.

“My purpose this time is truly only to thank you, and to assure you that your work attracts not only the condemnation of devils, but also the approval of saints .”

I appreciate the way you put that! Thank you, Emma! Those two go hand in hand, don't they? And I appreciate your thankfulness. You are blessing us and we bless God and you for it.

“Also, it is great to meet somebody else who thinks like me, and struggles with many of the same things as i do. It's an encouragement. Praise the Lord for it!”

We all have similar struggles. One reason the Lord has given me to express those is so that those called and chosen don't feel so alone or different from other spiritual pilgrims.

“Be sensible and vigilant, because your adversary the Devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking someone he may devour; whom firmly resist in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions in the world are being completed in your brotherhood” (1 Peter 5:8-9 MKJV).

By the way, we had brother Simon Hall come visit us from Perth, Australia not long ago. He found The Path of Truth a couple of years ago and finally decided to write us and ask if he could come visit. We said yes and he came for a week or so and was a great blessing to us.

God has been doing a wonderful work with him and I believe he has a calling in days to come to speak forth truth boldly and faithfully, challenging the rulers of the darkness of this world, to which he was subject for a long time but no longer.

During the time he visited us, others came from various parts of the US. This week, several arrived from California, Alabama, Nebraska, and Ontario to visit and fellowship with us. The Americans gathered in Helena, Montana and came up with Paul and Sara. I'm thankful for them all. God is doing something wonderful, something big, something special with us. Many will be coming now to hear the Truth, be made free, reach out to others to have the same, and rejoice in the Lord together. Not a religious matter now, but Reality - exactly what the world desperately needs.

Read The Gathering. We know we are nothing, and we know He is Everything.

Looking forward to hearing from you, Emma, about everything you've been talking about, dreams and all; no rush. God bless you and Jason! Be faithful to the Lord. He's More Than Worthy.

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