The Path of Truth Forum

Hi everyone!

This is an audio speech/sermon by Ron Cantor. He gives us some interesting insights on Jews and Jewish faith in New Testament times. Well worth the listen, I think. See what YOU think.

http://messiahsmandate.org/?powerpress_ ... 33-podcast" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Paul, share your candid thoughts on this, if you will.

Really interesting listening! I am actually really enjoying this, and it is making a lot of sense! Can't wait for Paul's comments x

I really appreciated this. Especially the part where he speaks of the Jews being grafted back in.

I did find it a bit hard to follow near the end.

Thanks for sharing.

I am just listening to another speech by Ron Cantor on youtube,and he has just said he does not care if the Sabbath is celebrated on Saturday or Sunday, that is a religious spirit and we should be free to worship God any day of the week. Is he wrong or have I missed the point about keeping Saturday?

Yes, Rachel I saw the same video from London, Ontario, Canada

This part occurred at 1:00:55 in the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGLjo83zgzE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He does get into how the Sabbath was changed by the RCC at 59:00 minutes.

Michael

Rachel,

Do you beleive man or God? Is your eye single? Whom are you looking to, God or the opinion of men?


Read Deuteronomy 28, if given.

Dan

Hi Rachel.

I believe we all should reverence the Sabbath, because that is one of the instructions God has given.

Hi Rachel.

I believe we all should reverence the Sabbath, because that is one of the instructions God has given.

Thanks for the link, Michael.

What I hear Ron saying, Rachel, isn't that you can keep the Sabbath any day, but that you can worship God any day. Of course, he's right, but he's also confusing things because the Sabbath isn't a commandment to gather on a certain day to worship God - it's a commandment to rest from your works on the seventh day.

What Ron is saying is that Saturday, the seventh day, is the Sabbath, and not Sunday or any other day. But he also confuses things by calling it "the Jewish Sabbath," which isn't true. God sanctified the Sabbath from the beginning. It is for all people, whoever is given to believe and receive His gift of rest.

Lord willing, I will comment more at length later on Ron's video posted by Victor, but let me say here that while Ron says many true things, he is also part of the religious system, and, having the number of the beast (the number of a man), teaches people to know Jesus after the flesh. This is a common characteristic of Messianics.

"So as we now know no one according to flesh, but even if we have known Christ according to flesh, yet now we no longer know Him so" (2 Corinthians 5:16 MKJV).

For a good clarification on the difference between the Sabbath as the day of rest and the day(s) of worship, the addressing of Myles Munroe is a very good read. Rachel and others, you can read that one here:

http://www.thepathoftruth.com/false-tea ... munroe.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Paul, thanks very much for you clarification, thank you everyone else as well.

Amen, Paul! I'm realizing the great significance of the time when the Lord took us to the Messianic synagogue in Philadelphia in 1980...Beit Yeshua was it? There we witnessed firsthand how the Jews were "reclaiming their Messiah from the Gentiles," as they put it, worshiping Him not in spirit and truth, but after the flesh, a historical Jesus/Yeshua. I perceive that day was a milestone, one of so many.

Within that event, you met up with one person you had previously known, and while the elder at the synagogue stood against us and called me a false prophet, she, Talya, though she was excited about you, stood with the elder. She walked away from that fellowship later, very confounded.

Not that leaders should necessarily be faulted for fallen followers. God knows I have my share of them, as did Paul, John, Peter, and the Lord Himself. My point is that we were given to see the essence of their worship and given a sample of their fruits, were we not? This was a milestone.

As I've said recently, all these events were anything but insignificant. They were crash courses, lessons for the future, important stones all for the building, not only for ourselves but for all.

Also thanks Dan for the reading you suggested, which brought up another question. Why did the Apostle Paul live in such poverty and hardship if he was obeying God's Will completely?

Acts 9:13-18 MKJV
(13) And Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard from many of this man, how many evil things he has done to Your saints at Jerusalem.
(14) And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your Name.
(15) But the Lord said to him, Go! For this one is a chosen vessel to Me, to bear My name before nations and kings and the sons of Israel.
(16) For I will show him what great things he must suffer for My Name's sake.
(17) And Ananias went and entered into the house. And putting his hands on him, he said, Brother Saul, the Lord, Jesus, who appeared to you in the way in which you came, has sent me to you that you might see and be filled with the Holy Spirit.
(18) And instantly scales as it were fell from his eyes, and he instantly saw again. And rising up, he was baptized.

Answered in one fell swoop, Victor, thank you!

What you brought up about the hardness the apostle Paul endured goes to show that we can't judge by externals, Rachel.

Some examples in the Scriptures:

Hannah appeared inebriated to Eli; then he found out she wasn't drunk but sorrowful, and God granted her petition (1 Samuel 1).
Job's comforters assumed he had committed certain sins and thereby condemned him, which made God angry because they didn't speak rightly of Him as did Job (42:7).
Asaph thought there was no justice from God when he saw the wicked prospering, but then he saw how foolish he was because God had set their feet in slippery places (Psalm 73).

"Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment" (John 7:24 ESV).

Edwin thanks for the link, I especially enjoyed this by Paul:

You speak of taking “a Sabbath day of rest,” and not of keeping the Sabbath day set apart by God. You can no more change the day of the Sabbath than you can change who your parents are. God also says in the Ten Commandments to honor your father and mother. You aren’t given license to say, “I prefer Aunt Annie and Uncle Charlie and will honor them instead.” The same can be said of the Sabbath. You can’t choose another day instead of the one God has sanctified.

How we twist things to suit ourselves! Paul gave such a sober and reasoned scriptural argument for the Sabbath which even unbelievers would come away saying, "yup, God definitely meant the Sabbath is the 7th day" - yet these false teachers have made such an investment in their lies - TV shows, websites, books, a following of people - that they end up being blinded and idolising the work of their own hands. Such a shame.

So true, Rachel! And for the record, I can tell you I used to admire Myles Munroe; he was so eloquent and well versed in many subjects, with a highly motivating message, yet he missed the cross of Jesus Christ in his life. He preferred to please his audience, to his own detriment and theirs.

I’ve listened to this presentation a couple times to get a handle on the content. So much could be said about it, but here are the main points I’d like to relate for now, especially from the perspective of growing up Jewish and having some understanding of where Ron’s coming from.

I hear what he’s saying about Jews not being taught what it means to be a Jew, having no common belief except regarding what they don’t believe - Jews don’t believe in Jesus. That’s what I experienced. It wasn’t a mark against Jesus so much as it was that He belonged to other people. It was impossible for you as a Jew to join them or become one of them.

This wasn’t something I thought about; it was something accepted like the sun coming up every morning. I was an outsider looking in, even when seemingly on the inside. I was a Jew – that wasn’t going to change and the world wouldn’t let me forget – truly God wasn’t letting the Jews forget.

But when He caused me to search for Him, the Truth (something I also never considered possible), I had no doubt whatsoever that when Christ revealed Himself to me I hadn’t become a Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, Presbyterian, or member of any religion on earth. I knew what was happening to me was what happened to Abraham and the other fathers of faith mentioned in the Bible, which was no religion – it was God Almighty revealing Himself to man!

The reason Jews don’t agree on or know what it means to be a Jew because they haven’t been circumcised in the heart – they aren’t Jews in the spirit!

This is where Ron’s and my experiences diverge. Whereas Ron thought he was no longer Jewish when he believed in Jesus as the Messiah, I understood for the first time what it meant to be a Jew. And it had nothing at all to do with wearing a yarmulke, going to synagogue on the “high holy-days,” or eating bagels and lox.

When Ron heard from a Messianic believer that he was still Jewish as a believer in Yeshua, he took comfort in the flesh, going back to the familiar but dead Jewish traditions, now mixed with Biblical knowledge and knowing Christ after the flesh.

Whereas I was neither a Christian nor Jew of this world, Ron realized he could be both, and became a Jewish Christian of the world. That’s how he appears on Sid Roth’s “It’s Supernatural,” and makes tracks in the religious system of men (also being educated there). Ron has the mark of the beast.

How am I different? Solely by the grace of God. I was given the faith to see and come to the Lord outside the camp, and He has kept me in the way ever since. As Jesus said of His sheep:

“My Father Who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand” (John 10:29 MKJV).

Ron says that being naturally curious probably explains why he became a believer. I could never say that about my conversion, because it had nothing to do with being naturally curious – it came solely by the preordained supernatural drawing of God:

“No one can come to Me unless the Father Who has sent Me draw him, and I will raise him up at the last day” (John 6:44 MKJV).

Ron brings up a lot of true things and makes some good points. The problem is that it’s a mixture of spiritual truths tainted by carnal inclinations and thoughts, which is deadly. On top of that, not everything he says is true. The result is confusion and separation from God and one another. The harmony and fellowship of Christ isn’t there.

For example, Ron says that the Jews didn’t reject Jesus, pointing to the many Jews who did believe in Him. True, and of course, we have what is called “the New Testament,” written by Jews. But who can argue that the Jewish nation didn’t reject their Messiah – “He came to His own, and His own received Him not” (John 1:11 MKJV)?

Isn’t that the point? And the rejection of Messiah by Israel can’t be laid at the feet of unbelieving Gentiles who have taken the Lord’s Name in vain. Ron writes in another place (http://www.lifesupernatural.com/jesus-t ... ity-theft/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;):

“What if they [the Jews] could see Him not as the leader of an anti-Semitic movement, but as the sacrificial Passover Lamb who willingly laid down His life for them? Indeed the enemy has perpetrated a treacherous act of Identity Theft. He has so altered the nature of the Jewish Messiah that he is barely recognizable to His own brothers.”

It was their forefathers who denied the Holy One and set the scene for what was to come for the Jews. Ron even refers to the prayer laid out by the precursors of modern Judaism, which rejected Nazarenes (Jewish believers) as heretics. And the Scriptures make clear that the Jewish Messiah wasn’t recognized by His own brothers when He appeared as He was in truth:

Isaiah 53:1-4 ESV
(1) Who has believed what he has heard from us? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
(2) For He grew up before Him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; He had no form or majesty that we should look at Him, and no beauty that we should desire Him.
(3) He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces He was despised, and we esteemed Him not.
(4) Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted.

Ron’s viewpoint is of the flesh, not the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ (Messiah).

There is much more that could be said, but for now I’ll post this. Anyone, let me know if you have questions.

Amen, Paul

Good points, Paul, and as you said, much more could be said and I think it would be good if more were said. We need to let people know the subtle, yet significant differences there are in messages coming from the various voices speaking in the Name of Yeshua/Jesus Christ.

Matthew 7:21-23 MKJV
(21) Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven.
(22) Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your Name, and through Your Name throw out demons, and through Your Name do many wonderful works?
(23) And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness!

Again, I think more should be said about Cantor and how he hasn't had a genuine experience of the Lord though he points out some interesting things in the Scriptures.

When we visited the Charismatic movement in the '70's, we learned it was counterfeiting the Holy Spirit of God. There was much falsehood mixed with truth and as a result, confusion abounded. To this day the Charismatic movement serves to deceive many.

I say these Messianic movements are also leading many astray, as we've written at TPOT. Jews are worshiping an historical Jesus, "knowing Him after the flesh," and thus pacifying souls by causing them to think they have faith and are saved. There is much deception, strong delusion.

Tell me, everyone, am I doing you service or disservice by bringing forth these teachers for your assessment? Are you wondering what I'm doing? I'd like to hear from you. We could simply stick to what is true and never mind bringing in the false for assessment and judgment.

No Victor, I would like you to keep bringing the teachers forward. I have heard some important things via Ron Cantor and our discussion of him, even though he doesn't have the Spirit of Christ.

From what I have read from everyone, especially Paul, am I right in thinking that a "Jew" isn't even a Jew unless they recognise the Lord Jesus Christ as God? So really all (real) Christians are (real) Jews?

Victor,

I think in order for true believers to understand the True, it is necessary to be exposed to the counterfeit in order to strengthen our knowledge of the Truth. However, this opinion does have some limitations. In order to not be tossed to and fro "by every wind of doctrine," believers who are not secure in their status of maturity should use extreme caution when being exposed to the false ideas of our carnal world.

As an example, a mature child can wander away from their parents without the concern for being "apprehended" by the lure of false ideas. The young child however, should stay at their parents (disciplers) side so that they can learn from those who are "watching over them" the true message of what is being said.

Personally, I will listen to a sermon online or a "christian" talk show so I can tune my ear to the subtleties of true doctrine and everything that "does not accord with sound doctrine." This exercise has greatly strengthened my perception of deception and has verified the Truth of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Indeed, we can see what Paul the apostle meant by, "...but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart; in spirit and not in letter; whose praise is not from men, but from God" (Romans 2:29 MKJV).

By looking into these teachers, I realize how true Victor's words are here: "Wherever there is an organized church, God is not there." Words which, when I first red them, I thought were too radical and excluding. So when we see very eloquent and well-presented "ministers" in any organized system, they always end up exposed by their own words. And the better they sound, the more dangerous they are.

So I agree it's helpful to look into these so subtle spirits.

Paul. So great to hear you share some of your past. Have you considered a Theo/auto? Your words on Ron are the Truth!

Victor. Yes, continue exposing false teachers on the forum. When someone asks it is the Lord working.

Our Sabbath meeting could concentrate more on scriptures and discussions of the Truth in them.