A Question about Free Will
Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 8:51 pm
From: Don S.
Sent: May-24-19 7:40 AM
To: Victor
Subject: Free Will
Victor,
I read you articles on free will, annihilation of the wicked, and reconciliation of all to God.
I have a question about free will:
If Job had no free will, what was the point of God and Satan arguing what his response would be to Satan's attacks on him, his family, and his property?
Surely Satan knows what the deal is, much more than any man. If it was a fait accompli that Job would pass the test, that wasn't much of a bet, was it?
From: Victor Hafichuk
Date: Sat, May 25, 2019 at 11:17 AM
Subject: RE: Free Will
To: Don S.
Hi Don,
Let me kindly correct you; if you receive it, you’ll do well.
Your question is not well thought out and it is strangely worded for lack of understanding or because of carelessness. You greatly contradict yourself and make my case for me - if you were to stop and think about what you’ve said. Thinking alone would help you, how much more, revelation and understanding from God?
God doesn’t nor has need to argue so why say He and Satan “argued”?
Are you telling me Job had a choice in his dreadful experience? He certainly told you differently, or haven’t you red the book?
If God determined everything for Job, is that free will for him? How so?
If God knew the end from the beginning, why would you assume Job could change the course God gave him? If God only had foreknowledge of what would happen and not sovereignty over the outcome, then He isn’t Lord, is He?
God used Satan to accomplish His work in Job and bring him into a new realm of righteousness, peace, and rest. What free will with choice did Job have in the whole affair? What “free will” did Job’s first and second sets of children have, or the servants slain in Job’s chastening?
Finally, you say, “If it was a fait accompli that Job would pass the test, that wasn't much of a bet, was it?”
Who was betting? And while Satan knows things men don’t, it doesn’t mean he knows what God knows, obviously. And by the way, Satan has no free will, either. He had no idea God was putting him to the task of refining Job.
Seeing I’ve taken the trouble to reply, kindly let these words be public. The Truth will do you and others good if received in humility.
\/
From: Don S.
Date: Sat, May 25, 2019 at 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: Free Will
To: Victor Hafichuk
Victor,
You have my permission to make the exchange public.
Since you obviously know the book well, the wording of my email was not meant to be assiduously accurate. It was to be brief. When I wrote the words "argue" and "bet" I knew you would take umbrage because I've read enough of your work to know you don't like questions that are not artfully stated. I chose not to worry about it since you knew what I meant.
Don
From: Victor Hafichuk
Date: Sat, May 25, 2019 at 4:51 PM
Subject: RE: Free Will
To: Don S.
Don, the Lord has said men will be called into account for every idle word they speak. But you seem to think He doesn’t mean His Words just like you don’t seem to think yours matter?
\/
From: Don S
Date: Sat, May 25, 2019 at 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: Free Will
To: Victor
God cares about words that MATTER, not whether I use the word "argue" when I should have used "discussion."
Your legalism is completely out of control. You believe that anyone who believes other than you is a heretic.
Now, THAT is a serious matter. Particularly when it goes as far as bearing false witness.
You not only said that Derek Prince is a false teacher, but that he doesn't have the Holy Spirit.
Funny that. He has the gift of tongues, interpretation of tongues, healing, and casting out of demons, just to name the gifts I know about.
He was led by the Spirit into various ministries over a period of decades and did great work for the Kingdom of God.
He deliverance ministry may have been the most prolific of any man to ever live.
He cast out thousands and thousands of demons over a LONG period of time.
He also preaches solid doctrine, at least generally. Nobody is right about everything, including you.
You are not infallible and you are not the only man with the Holy Spirit.
I don't believe God will bring up meaningless trivialities at my judgement, but I believe he will bring up your treatment of Mr. Prince at yours.
Don
From: Victor Hafichuk
Date: Sat, May 25, 2019 at 7:24 PM
Subject: RE: Free Will
To: Don S.
Don, you insist you’re right. I say you’re wrong. As the sun rises and sets each day, so will you know the truth. We’re done.
Sent: May-24-19 7:40 AM
To: Victor
Subject: Free Will
Victor,
I read you articles on free will, annihilation of the wicked, and reconciliation of all to God.
I have a question about free will:
If Job had no free will, what was the point of God and Satan arguing what his response would be to Satan's attacks on him, his family, and his property?
Surely Satan knows what the deal is, much more than any man. If it was a fait accompli that Job would pass the test, that wasn't much of a bet, was it?
From: Victor Hafichuk
Date: Sat, May 25, 2019 at 11:17 AM
Subject: RE: Free Will
To: Don S.
Hi Don,
Let me kindly correct you; if you receive it, you’ll do well.
Your question is not well thought out and it is strangely worded for lack of understanding or because of carelessness. You greatly contradict yourself and make my case for me - if you were to stop and think about what you’ve said. Thinking alone would help you, how much more, revelation and understanding from God?
God doesn’t nor has need to argue so why say He and Satan “argued”?
Are you telling me Job had a choice in his dreadful experience? He certainly told you differently, or haven’t you red the book?
If God determined everything for Job, is that free will for him? How so?
If God knew the end from the beginning, why would you assume Job could change the course God gave him? If God only had foreknowledge of what would happen and not sovereignty over the outcome, then He isn’t Lord, is He?
God used Satan to accomplish His work in Job and bring him into a new realm of righteousness, peace, and rest. What free will with choice did Job have in the whole affair? What “free will” did Job’s first and second sets of children have, or the servants slain in Job’s chastening?
Finally, you say, “If it was a fait accompli that Job would pass the test, that wasn't much of a bet, was it?”
Who was betting? And while Satan knows things men don’t, it doesn’t mean he knows what God knows, obviously. And by the way, Satan has no free will, either. He had no idea God was putting him to the task of refining Job.
Seeing I’ve taken the trouble to reply, kindly let these words be public. The Truth will do you and others good if received in humility.
\/
From: Don S.
Date: Sat, May 25, 2019 at 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: Free Will
To: Victor Hafichuk
Victor,
You have my permission to make the exchange public.
Since you obviously know the book well, the wording of my email was not meant to be assiduously accurate. It was to be brief. When I wrote the words "argue" and "bet" I knew you would take umbrage because I've read enough of your work to know you don't like questions that are not artfully stated. I chose not to worry about it since you knew what I meant.
Don
From: Victor Hafichuk
Date: Sat, May 25, 2019 at 4:51 PM
Subject: RE: Free Will
To: Don S.
Don, the Lord has said men will be called into account for every idle word they speak. But you seem to think He doesn’t mean His Words just like you don’t seem to think yours matter?
\/
From: Don S
Date: Sat, May 25, 2019 at 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: Free Will
To: Victor
God cares about words that MATTER, not whether I use the word "argue" when I should have used "discussion."
Your legalism is completely out of control. You believe that anyone who believes other than you is a heretic.
Now, THAT is a serious matter. Particularly when it goes as far as bearing false witness.
You not only said that Derek Prince is a false teacher, but that he doesn't have the Holy Spirit.
Funny that. He has the gift of tongues, interpretation of tongues, healing, and casting out of demons, just to name the gifts I know about.
He was led by the Spirit into various ministries over a period of decades and did great work for the Kingdom of God.
He deliverance ministry may have been the most prolific of any man to ever live.
He cast out thousands and thousands of demons over a LONG period of time.
He also preaches solid doctrine, at least generally. Nobody is right about everything, including you.
You are not infallible and you are not the only man with the Holy Spirit.
I don't believe God will bring up meaningless trivialities at my judgement, but I believe he will bring up your treatment of Mr. Prince at yours.
Don
From: Victor Hafichuk
Date: Sat, May 25, 2019 at 7:24 PM
Subject: RE: Free Will
To: Don S.
Don, you insist you’re right. I say you’re wrong. As the sun rises and sets each day, so will you know the truth. We’re done.