Abu Yusuf,
You invoke God:
Guide us on the straight path,
The path of those on whom You have bestowed Your favors,
Not the path of those who have earned Your anger, nor those who have gone astray
That which you ask for is contained in the writing to follow [The Answer to Islam]. When you reach the end of it you will have laid out before you with certainty what path is the one of those who have earned His anger, and which is the path of Truth that confers His grace and favor.
Paul Cohen
Paul,
You are absolutely correct, Muslims seem to have gone astray. I wish you well in your endeavors to guide them to the right path. I highly recommend using the Biblical verses below in your efforts, and also the following books:
The Sins of Scripture: Exposing the Bible’s Texts of Hate to Reveal the God of Love – Bishop John Shelby Spong
Resurrection: Myth or Reality? – Bishop John Shelby Spong
Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why – Bart Ehrman
Biblical verses
Inebriated and naked prophets:
And he (Noah) drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. (Genesis 9:21, see also 1 Samuel 19:24 about Saul)
Lot’s incest with his daughters:
… Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father. And the first born bare a son, and called his name Moab : the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day. And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day… (Genesis 19:31-38)
Pornography:
… Neither left she her whoredoms brought from Egypt : for in her youth they lay with her, and they bruised the breasts of her virginity, and poured their whoredom upon her…
… For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses… (Ezekiel 23:1-49, also see Ezekiel 16:1-40)
Moses sanctions wholesale slaughter and rape:
… Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves… (Numbers 31:17-18)
Polygamy:
… And he (Solomon) had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart. (1 Kings 11:3)
Jesus advocates hatred and slaughter:
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. (Matthew 10:34,35)
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. [Luke 19:27]
Abu,
We are not taking it upon ourselves to guide Muslims on the right path. We are, by the Spirit of the one true God Who sends us, telling them (and you) the truth that can lead in that direction. We recognize that what we say could also lead “moderate” Muslims to become convicted of being remiss in their Muslim duties and therefore take more seriously the injunctions in their guide book to “strike terror” in the “infidels,” including us. By whatever means possible, whether by subterfuge or physical intimidation and murder, the Koran demands that its demonic injunctions and the worship of Allah prevail. But we have put our trust in the living God. If our paper provokes more hostility, so be it. We are content to let God decide and to do as He will with the Word He has given us to preach. It is His Word and He sends it to do His pleasure. He is God, the Author of all things, and all things are His to do with as He pleases.
Now you have a decision to make, for which you will be held responsible. Will you insist on keeping your eyes closed to the Light we have brought you? Will you keep trying to reform the unreformable, which is a true fool’s errand, or will you take heed to the truth that we have sent you and renounce your wickedness and the ways of darkness? This is also in God’s hands.
Paul
Well, Abu, it appears you deem yourself to be quite clever. Obviously, you think to have us at a disadvantage in your reply with your knowledge and sarcasm. However, we are here to serve you notice that you will not prevail with your ignorance and pride. I, Victor, will reply, and I expect Paul will as well. You are not dealing with anyone of the kind you presume to, or have ever met, now.
Your e-mail address is “For People Who Think.” One of the first steps one takes in thinking is to avail himself of the information about which he is to think. You have not availed yourself of our site. Rather, you have assumed and lumped us in with general, nominal so-called Christianity. That is your first and fatal step in your “thinking.” Here is what God has to say about that:
“Answering before listening is both stupid and rude” (Proverbs 18:13 MSG).
You have been condemned by His Words already, therefore not having His “favor bestowed” on you, but “having earned His wrath, being astray.” but we will be patient with you for three reasons:
One, The Lord of lords and King of kings would have us speak to sinners, to those in darkness.
Two, we have also, as sinners, offended in times past, before being redeemed, just as you do now, being unredeemed; therefore, we cannot righteously hold it against you.
Three, you will never recognize your need and learn what you need to learn if we simply walk away offended, saying nothing more to you, though you deserve to perish in your ignorance and foolishness. God is patient and merciful even to fools, until they persist past the line. (Dare you find that line?) Furthermore, we have answers for your sarcastic objections, lest you should continue with swelled head and smirk, as if you have something when you don’t.
Here we go, item by item:
You write, “Muslims seem to have gone astray.”
Muslims have not “seemingly” gone astray. They would not be Muslims in the first place if not astray. This we know, not by religion or indoctrination, but by God Almighty.
You write: “I highly recommend…the following books:
The Sins of Scripture: Exposing the Bible’s Texts of Hate to Reveal the God of Love – Bishop John Shelby Spong
Resurrection: Myth or Reality? – Bishop John Shelby Spong
Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why – Bart Ehrman”
First of all, Abu, as a man in darkness, why would we have respect to what you recommend? Secondly, anyone with the title of “Bishop” is not worth heeding. If you were not in darkness, you would know that, but you recommend such a person because you are in darkness with him. Shall children of light waste their time reading the works of a child of darkness? While we have been resurrected, neither you nor he has. We come in the Resurrection, Jesus Christ. There is no light without Him. As He said:
“Then Jesus spoke again to them, saying, I am the Light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life” (John 8:12 MKJV).
And who is “Bart Ehrman” but another child in darkness? Because he has not come to a knowledge and repentance of his sins, he has not received the Truth of the Bible, but rather focuses on theories and conjectures about who presumably changed it. If he had been converted, the Bible would have come alive, revealed by Jesus Christ as the Book of books, one like no other. Granted, many misquote Jesus, and the Bible; we know this, but we also know Him, and only by His mouth can we tell what is true and what is false. If that is so, how can you know what is true or false, not knowing Him?
You see, Abu, we need proper references of authority. We have Him, the Authority of all authorities. What do you have, thus far, but the opinions and conjectures of prating fools – men who, in their own brand of wisdom, speak out of darkness? What good is that to you or to us or to anyone?
You bring up the Biblical records of those who manifest their weakness and sin. So what is your point? Do you have one?
What about Noah’s drunkenness and nakedness? First of all, the Bible is an honest book, telling it like it is about all of humanity. Those whom God has chosen are not chosen because of virtue of their own. He has bestowed grace where He pleases. We are not speaking to you because of virtue of our own. We speak because He has granted us the mercy, the grace, the unmerited favor to speak. All men fell with Adam in the original sin. That includes Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Muhammad, you and me. While God has bestowed upon some His grace to represent Him and His will on earth, He has not done so for others, not because one was better than the other (all have sinned) but simply because He did it that way. His plan is great, beyond our carnal comprehension. Noah was a weak man like any other. One thing about Noah was that he was chosen of millions for salvation. He heard the voice of God, believed and obeyed. That is much more than can be said for you, is it not? Have you ever sinned, Abu, or are you better than Noah or any other man?
Now consider that Ham, Noah’s son, was tried in the circumstance, and his descendants were cursed because of the wicked reaction he had to his father’s shortfall. Consider for yourself, because Ham’s descendants were cursed for the very same attitude and spirit you yourself now manifest against Noah. And, as if your attitude toward Noah is not enough, you come against his Creator and yours. How will you fare with that? How are you faring with that stance even now?
Though Lot had faith, he was a compromiser in certain respects. God records these matters to demonstrate the cost of compromising His will and ways. Lot’s daughters got their father drunk, worried about having children, perhaps presuming that God had destroyed all life. In their carnality, they gave birth to children who did not have God’s favor in the future. On the contrary, they were among those to whom you refer in your prayer, people upon whom was His wrath.
The Bible records the bad with the good. How better to demonstrate the contrast, as a warning to all? Take heed, Abu. It is easy for a sinner removed from the circumstances to criticize fellow sinners. Are you able to see? No.
You record Ezekiel’s words graphically describing Israel and Judah in sexual terms, and therefore you call it “pornography.” Foolish, bitter, cynical man! Let me teach you something. God created all things, including the naked body. Adam and Eve were naked before the fall. There is nothing wrong with nakedness, or of the bared female breast, or of the sexual organs, or of sex itself (unless perhaps it produces people who speak foolishly). One sees these things in all of creation. But for all those things, you and I would not be here.
The question is, “What is ‘pornography’?” Pornography has within its definition and concept, as you use it now, the idea of using sex and sexual objects for evil. While sex has its place, God ordained it for marriage and procreation. He did not create it for lust and abuse, such as adultery, for example. Are you an adulterer, fornicator or masturbator, Abu? Those are abuse. Those are “pornography,” public or private. Though in a form not defined as pornography, those are abuses of good things God has given.
Money can supply food to feed the poor and it can supply guns for murderers to kill the poor. Of which do you approve? Money and guns are not evil. The intent and use to which they are put is where good and evil are determined. So with sex.
While you accuse Ezekiel and the Bible of porn, Ezekiel was, in reality, condemning pornography. He was telling Israel of its evil ways. He was telling them that what they were doing was evil. While porn encourages people to do evil, he was condemning people for that very kind of evil. And you accuse him of pornography? How stupid can you be, Abu? How little thinking you do!
You quote, “Moses sanctions wholesale slaughter and rape:
… Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves… (Numbers 31:17-18)”
We speak against a devil but we will speak nevertheless, with power that no devil can withstand. Rape happens to be just another sexual sin that Ezekiel was condemning. Rape is forced sex, an act of sheer lust. Moses and Israel were not sent in for lust’s sake. Neither did they rape. You call it rape only because you would choose to be a rapist if you could get away with it. You wish to condemn that which God does because you choose to hold on to sins He condemns. Is that not so, Abu?
As to the charge of slaughter, yes, God directed Israel to slaughter the inhabitants of Canaan because their iniquity had reached its fullness. With such sins, they needed the judgment. As America and any other nation indulges in such sin, so will it be for them, whether by themselves, traffic accidents, disease, Muslims, or whatever. That goes for individuals too. Judgment comes, without fail. God is not mocked.
It was because of those very kinds of sins that Ezekiel described, and because of all kinds of sins of idolatry, hatred, greed and murder, that God sent Moses and Israel into Canaan. He sent them in to uproot and to destroy all that was vile in God’s sight. The very sad thing was that Israel ended up falling into those same kinds of sins, despite direct and explicit warnings from God by His prophets, Ezekiel being but one of many. Moses was another.
So now Israel has paid and is paying the price for their infidelity to God, plagued by the seed of Ishmael, Ham, Canaan, Moab, Ammon, Esau and others. Without a country for thousands of years, hunted down like animals everywhere in the world, these are the fruits of the sins that you, in your foolishness, support. It will be no better for you; in fact, worse. Yet Israel still lives, because chosen of God as His people. What other nation has been raised from the dead, so to speak, after nearly 2500 years without their own sovereignty, in spite of the great odds against them? Their enemies, sooner or later, have gone down to the pit of Hell, that being the destiny of any who stand against God and His chosen. That is also the destiny of any of those who claim to be His but are not. That surely applies to the Muslims. Have you red the paper we sent you, Abu? Read and heed, for your life.
You cite polygamy. The Bible makes no secret of the fact that many had more than one wife. God also points out that He warned Israel against having many wives, particularly unbelieving ones. Solomon did not heed that warning. What happened as a result? His wives turned him away from the Living God to worship other gods, even as you do now. It was not long before all Israel began to pay the price of his “polygamy.” Yet the sin was not so much how many he married as whom he married. He married those who did not believe, those who were not chosen of God, those who had other gods. Nowhere in Scripture does one find God condemning polygamy per se. In fact, here is what He said to David, by Nathan the prophet, who came to David, speaking against David’s “rape and slaughter” of Bathsheba and Urijah the Hittite:
“And Nathan said to David, You are the man! So says Jehovah, the God of Israel, I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you out of the hand of Saul. And I gave you your master’s house and your master’s wives into your bosom, and gave you the house of Israel and of Judah. And if that was too little, I would have given to you such and such things besides. Why have you despised the Word of Jehovah, to do evil in His sight? You have stricken Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and have taken his wife to be your wife, and have killed him with the sword of the sons of Ammon. And therefore, the sword shall never depart from your house, because you have despised Me and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife. So says Jehovah, Behold, I will raise up evil against you out of your own house, and I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor. And he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun. For you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel and before the sun” (2 Samuel 12:7-12 MKJV).
We reap what we sow, Abu. You are sowing some rather bad seed. There will be a harvest, I solemnly assure you.
Jacob had two wives and two concubines, yet he was the beloved of God.
Now, Abu, why do you not bring up Abraham, whom Muslims profess to honor, and who, by Hagar, an Egyptian, conceived Ishmael, the father of Arabs? Abraham had one wife, Sarah, and he would have done well to have had only her. Because he and Sarah thought they needed to help God out in providing them a promised son, he went in to Hagar. Now his seed by Isaac, born of Sarah, is constantly in warfare with his seed by Ishmael, born of Hagar. Nevertheless, God works all things well, He has purposed all these things, and will bring all men, Muslims included, to a knowledge of the Truth, that is the Lord Jesus Christ. To Him will all knees bend, and every tongue will confess that He is Lord.
You assert that “Jesus advocates hatred and slaughter,” quoting:
“Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. (Matthew 10:34,35)”
He advocated no physical sword. He slaughtered nobody; neither did His disciples do so. But He did send a sword, the sword of which He spoke, into my life and family, and Paul’s life and family. When Jesus Christ made Himself known to me, and I received the truth, the sword of Truth divided me from my mother, father, brothers, sisters, friends and all those who do not know and love Him. Try reading our stories in Our Testimonies. Learn before you speak.
You refer to His words about hate, quoting, “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)”
He was not advocating the hate that Muslims teach and practice, or that carnal men like you have. He spoke of a decisive choice made between Him and any other creature or person. He made it clear that unless He was most important of all to one, above loved ones, that one could not follow Him. It is true. While I do not “hate” my family in the sense that you use the word, I have had to turn my back on my family to obey and walk with Him. That is because my family was not prepared or willing to obey and walk with Him. That is what He meant by “hating” them. Truly, I love my family, and all people, Muslims included, with God’s love, but I cannot allow them to determine my life. I must look to Him to do so, and where their will opposes His, I choose not to heed their will. That is the meaning of the word “hate” as He uses it. I think you are able to know that, but in your hate of goodness and truth, and of Him, Who is Truth, you choose evil interpretation.
Now for the last words you quote of Him, “But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. [Luke 19:27]”
Why do you not acknowledge that He speaks a parable here, beginning with the words:
“And as they heard these things, He added and spoke a parable, because He was near Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God was about to appear immediately” (Luke 19:11 MKJV).
He was not speaking of Himself; the parable demonstrates the lethal effects of sin, of rejecting the truth, righteousness and salvation of God, which can only come in Jesus Christ, Who died for you. It is sin that slays you, and not Jesus Christ. Satan is the murderer while Jesus Christ is the Savior:
“I am the door. If anyone enters in by Me, he shall be saved and shall go in and out and find pasture. The thief does not come except to steal and to kill and to destroy. I have come so that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. I am the Good Shepherd. The Good Shepherd lays down His life for the sheep” (John 10:9-11 MKJV).
You accuse Him of murder simply because you are ignorant of Him and of His ways. He has shed blood indeed, but it is His own that He shed; and for whom? He shed it for you, Abu, so that you would not shed another’s, and so that yours would not be shed. Why fight your Best Friend, your only True Friend, as though He were your worst enemy, Abu? What a foolish thing to do!
We speak in and by Him, knowing whereof we speak, having been born of Him and washed of our sins by His blood. So we speak to you.
Victor
Now let us take a look at who the real murderers are in our present world, and I quote:
“If I get hold of the pope, I will hang him,” Hafiz Hussain Ahmed, a senior MMA leader, told protesters in Islamabad, who carried placards reading “Terrorist, extremist Pope be hanged!” and “Down with Muslims’ enemies!”
In Karachi, another MMA leader, Ghafoor Ahmed, accused the pope of wanting to force “Christians and Muslims against each other.”
“We condemn the pope. We will not tolerate insulting remarks against Islam or our Prophet Muhammad,” Ahmed said at a protest that drew about 300 people.
Another 200 rallied in the eastern city of Lahore, while several dozen protested in Multan.
The demonstrations came a day after 1,000 clerics and religious leaders met in Lahore and called for the pope’s removal and warned the West of consequences if it didn’t change its stance regarding Islam.
Thursday’s meeting was organized by radical Islamic Jamaat al-Dawat group, which runs schools, colleges and medical clinics. In April, Washington put the group on a list of terrorist organizations for its alleged links with militants fighting in the Indian part of Kashmir.
After the meeting, a statement was issued demanding the West “change its stance regarding Islam (or) it will face severe consequences.” It did not elaborate.
It also said that jihad was not terrorism and that “Islam was not propagated with the sword.”
Malaysia’s opposition Pan-Malaysian Islamic Party staged demonstrations outside mosques nationwide, calling for the pope to fully retract his remarks. In Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia’s largest city, some 150 party members chanted “Stop the insults” and held a banner that read “We Muslims are peace-loving people.”
Associated Press writers Munir Ahmad in Islamabad, Zarar Khan in Karachi, Asif Shahzad in Lahore and Khalid Tanveer in Multan contributed to this report.
By SARAH EL DEEB, Associated Press Writer
What sane and honest man can argue against the multitudinous murders and obscene crimes committed by Muslims in this world? Come on, Abu; killing because they are angry at being told they have killed when they have killed! And for what? Some words? How amazing and evil the contradiction!
By the way, we are not affiliated with the pope. We do not defend or agree with him. He is antiChrist, like you. We speak in and by the Lord Jesus Christ, knowing whereof we speak, having been born of Him and washed of our sins by His blood. So we speak to you. Repent of your wickedness.