Trying to Mix Oil and Water
We received this response after sharing The Muslim Scourge and other writings with Jeffry Camm, one who presumes to minister Christ to Muslims:
When Jesus confronted sin He always dealt with it in a positive way, so that the outcome was positive for the person afflicted.
May I respectfully request that in writing your reports you follow Christ’s example.
Yes Islam has crept in while many Christians were watching others sources of interest. But how can we now draw the attention (of the Muslims) away from their militants and towards Christ?
There are many references to Christ (son of Mary) in the Quran. Why don’t you use those references to challenge the Muslims to follow their own written teachings – not the rhetoric of their mullahs?
For your reference I have attached an extract from my book : “In Search of the Truth” which aligns scriptures from the Quran against scriptures from the Bible, so that Christians can be aware of what is said about Christ in this Muslim book and lead them to Christ and salvation.
The full contents of this book can be downloaded from my web page “Free of Charge” (even though it says you pay) at www.nlmcs.com.au [website defunct], then click onto the Christian Books page.
Victor’s reply:
Mr. Camm,
I have red through Chapter 5 of In Search of the Truth,”The Koran and Jesus Christ,” and find much in need of correction. For example, you write:
“Jesus said to his followers, his disciplines: “You are from below; I AM from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.” (John 8:23)”
He said this not to His disciples or followers but to those who opposed Him. Read the context. His disciples did not die in their sins. They were saved. Those who He said would die in their sins did so, or He was wrong.
Paul and I have several other observations on this chapter of your book, which we now send you. In perusing other parts of the book, we find much error there as well. It is corrupt teaching, not apparently intentional, but in ignorance and therefore also in presumption, because one presumes to teach when he does not have the truth, in which case, he really has no right to teach.
Victor
Paul’s reply:
Hi Mr. Camm,
While the way of the Lord Jesus is always right, it is not looked upon by those adamantly opposing the Light as something positive. To such it is negative, very much so. Their reaction proves what I say. The Scriptures declare this:
“Sorrow to you who are looking for the day of the Lord! What is the day of the Lord to you? It is dark and not light. As if a man, running away from a lion, came face to face with a bear; or went into the house and put his hand on the wall and got a bite from a snake. Will not the day of the Lord be dark and not light? Even very dark, with no light shining in it?” (Amos 5:18-20 BBE)
You write:
“Yes Islam has crept in while many Christians were watching others sources of interest. But how can we now draw the attention (of the Muslims) away from their militants and towards Christ?”
You missed the point of our writings, if you red them. We are not bemoaning Islam. We are pointing out the reason Islam has become a menace to the West, and how it can be alleviated by repentance from sin and the gross arrogance and presumption of the flesh, which is parading itself everywhere in “Christian” works. We are not primarily speaking to Muslims, but to people like you, to bring you the Word of God as He speaks it to cause you to turn to Him, Jesus Christ. You are one of those in need of repentance, Jeffry, as our initial letter declared, to which you objected in your own righteousness [in former correspondence not posted here].
You should not think it strange that Christians, even real ones, are called to repentance. You are surely aware of the Scriptures and the prophets sent to Israel, the Lord’s people:
“Shout! A full-throated shout! Hold nothing back–a trumpet-blast shout! Tell My people what’s wrong with their lives, face My family Jacob with their sins! They’re busy, busy, busy at worship, and love studying all about Me. To all appearances they’re a nation of right-living people– law-abiding, God-honoring. They ask Me, What’s the right thing to do?’ and love having Me on their side” (Isaiah 58:1-2 MSG).
How do we show the world Christ? You are proposing that flesh and blood can show Christ, Jeffry, but it cannot. That is another “Jesus.” That is also the “love” you are preaching, and by the way, failing in. You are off track, and we are showing you the right Way.
What we can do, Jesus said, is to believe on Him Whom He has sent. That is the sure and only way anyone will draw the attention to Christ, because, in taking up the cross and following Him, we are doing His will, manifesting His life. That is what we are doing by the grace of God, speaking the truth to all in the faith of Christ. You are resisting the truth, and so you ask us to “follow Christ’s example.” Get behind us Satan, for you savor the things of man and falsely call them, “Christ.”
I want you to know that, having said this, we do appreciate your sending us the writing on the Koran and Christ, and will use what we can, Lord willing, in our next writing. There are some things there, like what you mention about Christ being born of a virgin, that are true and helpful. I have been compiling some verses from the Koran, which serve as a backdrop of darkness to the light of Scriptures and the wisdom God has given us to shine the Light of Truth.
There is, however, much in which you are mistaken. There is the statement you make about Abraham, that God chose him because he was righteous. No man is righteous. Any man that is righteous is that way because God chose him, and not the other way around. But that is at the heart of your problem; you trust in your own righteousness. What you are saying, in effect, is that man, and not Christ, is the Alpha and, therefore, by extension (if one follows to a logical conclusion), the Omega as well. In other words, you place man in the place of God.
You speak of Muslims as if, because they believe in Allah, they believe in God. Devils believe there is one God, and tremble. If a person follows the Koran he is following devils, not the true God revealed in Christ. Muhammad was an insecure man, afflicted with megalomania, hearing from devils and publishing it as the voice of God. It is all a total fraud; diabolical trash. Therefore, we are not keen to cause anyone to look to the Koran for truth and substantiation of truth. Shall we send someone to drink from a tainted well?
But we have a pure well, and do give good water to drink. Those thirsty will appreciate it, and we do not need to entice them. They will recognize and readily take the Water of Life.
You tell a “good Muslim” that if he believes the words of the Koran, he must obey them. That is what Osama bin Laden is doing. That is a “good Muslim.” Yes, there are contradictions in the Koran, with occasional truth thrown in, in words that lend themselves to what the Scriptures say, and we should use them, and will, but we will not give credence to the Koran. If a man imbibes the spirit of the Koran, and follows it, it will only bring more devastation and hell. If a man can increase hell by preaching a carnal faith in the Bible, how much more by preaching faith in a book of devils? The fruits that tell already surround us.
Jesus said this to those who taught the Scriptures, thinking to have life in them:
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you compass sea and the dry land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, you make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves” (Matthew 23:15 MKJV).
Today this evil has overspread the earth. That is why there is a “Muslim Scourge.”
Jeffry, there is so much more we could say and that you could learn from us, if you were humble and willing to listen. You need what we have. Fight us, and you are fighting God. Ignore us, and you are ignoring Him. Deny us, and you are denying yourself the things written in the Book of Life, because He is with us, and He is Life.
Here is your paper in brown with our comments in black text:
THE KORAN AND JESUS CHRIST
As is known by all seriously minded Muslims the bible, or Ingeel, as you refer to it, was written approximately 600 years before the birth of the so called prophet Mohammed.
You may be upset because I say to you only a “so called prophet”, not a real prophet, well read on and examine the facts for yourselves and let the Almighty God, the God that you believe in…
Is this the god they believe in? Not if they believe the Koran. Neither do Muslims believe we worship the same God. They give lip service in order to gain access into, and the acceptance of, Western society, but they believe that those who pray to a triune god blasphemously pray to a false god…and ironically, they are right (God is one, not three). Gaining access, they work to convert all to Islam, according to the clear dictates of the Koran.
…the God of Abraham, reveal the whole truth to you. So that we both start this chapter together in the correct attitude to our God, let us pray together.
“Our God in Heaven, who made the heavens and the earth, who choose Abraham to be the father of many nations, because he was a righteous man…
God did not choose Abraham because he was righteous. Abraham was righteous because God chose him. This is the core difference between the two faiths in Christ, the false and the true, man made and God made, the tares and the wheat.
…who walked with fear before you. Please open our spiritual eyes as we examine your divine word together.
You are disingenuous in those words, and they would sense it. You are pretending that your “spiritual eyes” need to be opened, yet there you are, obviously attempting to open theirs as though yours are open. Do you consider them to be stupid, Jeffry?
And what is the “divine word”? Seeing you examine with them their “holy book,” which is quite unholy, you suggest that the Koran is inspired of God. It almost sounds like you even believe so.
Reveal to us the hidden truths which you have placed there, waiting for those who love you and want to know more about you…
We love Him only because He first loved us. Loving Him, our eyes are already opened because His love has been made manifest to us. In such a case, the Koran is an obvious piece of falsehood. Again, you appeal to man’s righteousness. That, Jeffry, is “another gospel,” the presentation of another Jesus, and not the One we worship, not at all. Consider your words in light of the Scripture you quote far in this document:
“There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no-one who understands, no-one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no-one who does good, not even one” (Romans 3:10-12).
…open our eyes so that we may see and accept these truths, not because we have been told them by someone else, but because you yourself has opened our eyes to these truths now as we examine your divine words. Amen.
As a Muslim you believe that the Koran was given to Mohammed as the divine revelation from God Almighty himself and that it is your duty to follow its teachings to obtain acceptance by God Almighty so that when the judgement comes you will be able to be accepted into Paradise, which the Christians call Heaven. Therefore as a good Muslim you must try to obey the words of your Koran.
If a Muslim is a good Muslim, and obeys the words of the Koran, then he will be Osama bin Laden. Osama believes the Koran and follows its dictates devoutly, as do so many other “extremists.” A true Muslim will believe all of the Koran, just as a true Christian will believe the whole Bible, unlike Catholics and Mormons, for examples. Succeed in encouraging any Muslim to believe any of the Koran as if it had virtue, and you may succeed in having him believe all of it. Then what? Read The Answer to Islam.
Let us examine some of the passages of the Koran and see where it points us, and as a good Muslim, you must therefore obey this leading, or you are saying you believe the words of the Koran did not come from God.
Discussed. Jesus said:
“Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree rotten and its fruit rotten; for a tree is known by its fruit” (Matthew 12:33 EMTV).
It is one thing to try to be diplomatic. It is even acceptable to “catch with guile,” as Paul put it to the Corinthians. It is quite another thing to use false premises and sources of authority. What you are attempting to do is find something that looks like a pomegranate on a thorn bush and feed it to those whom you would like to see feeding from a pomegranate tree. This is not wisdom, as you see it, but foolishness.
Will you get results this way? Certainly. Those will be false conversions, however, proselytes gained to a false gospel, worshipping a false Jesus, a horrible and deceptive hybrid of a loving god that eventually destroys wonderfully, as we perceive has happened with you and with so many others you have proselytized.
All Muslims believe that there will be a time of judgement, a time when Jesus Christ (Jesus the son of Mary) will come back down to earth to make ready for the day of judgement and all Muslims must be ready for it and able to recognize the signs of its happening.
A literal return of a physical Jesus is not what the Bible is talking about. He comes in His people, His Body, the Church. He is here, now, judging (correcting). Muslims also do not believe what you say. There are many versions of the Koran, which express things quite differently than you do here. The soul is won by conviction of sin and not by fear of judgment. Intellectual argument wins an intellect, but it does not convert the soul.
The Koran says this about these events :- And he (Jesus son of Mary) shall be a knowing sign for the coming of the hour (the birth and resurrection). Therefore have no doubt about it and follow me (Allah) [be obedient to ALLAH and do what HE orders you to do, oh mankind!] THIS IS THE STRAIGHT PATH. (Sura #43 Zukhruf : 61)
And let not Satan hinder you from the right path. Verily he (Satan) is to you a plain enemy. (Sura #43 Zukhruf : 62)
And when Jesus came with clear signs He said “I have come to you with wisdom and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) in which you DIFFER, therefore, fear ALLAH (God) and OBEY ME” (Sura #43 Zukhruf : 63) The Koran says to obey JESUS CHRIST.
Here is the passage from another version, in full (see the difference):
[43.57] And when a description of the son of Marium is given, lo! your people raise a clamor thereat.
[43.58] And they say: Are our gods better, or is he? They do not set it forth to you save by way of disputation; nay, they are a contentious people.
[43.59] He was naught but a servant on whom We bestowed favor, and We made him an example for the children of Israel.
[43.60] And if We please, We could make among you angels to be successors in the land.
[43.61] And most surely it is a knowledge of the hour, therefore have no doubt about it and follow me: this is the right path.
[43.62] And let not the Shaitan prevent you; surely he is your open enemy.
[43.63] And when Isa came with clear arguments he said: I have come to you indeed with wisdom, and that I may make clear to you part of what you differ in; so be careful of (your duty to) Allah and obey me:
[43.64] Surely Allah is my Lord and your Lord, therefore serve Him; this is the right path:
In Hadith #42´ and Hadith #65• Mohammed said these words (as told by Abu Huraira) : Allah’s Apostle said : “By him in whose hand my soul is, (Jesus son of Mary) will shortly descend amongst you Muslims as a just ruler”
In this statement by Mohammed, he himself said that Jesus would descend among the Muslims as a RULER, not an Apostle, not a Prophet, but a RULER.
You of course know that a ruler is a person in authority and must be obeyed if you are to live a just and peaceful life. How much more must we obey a ruler sent from the Almighty God Himself and prophesied by Isaiah, Jeremiah, King David, and even Mohammed.
Muhammad prophesied nothing from God. He was a false prophet. Why then do you give Satan credibility? Why promote him in the ears of Muslims? It is confusion.
If Mohammed says that Jesus is a ruler, then you as a Muslim must obey Him as a ruler, sent from ALLAH Himself.
Allah is not the God of Israel or of creation. If you succeed in persuading a Muslim to obey Jesus because Muhammad said so, what will that Muslim do with the rest of what Muhammad has to say, such as killing the people of “the Book”?
If Jesus is a ruler sent down from God then, as a good Muslim, you must try to find out the real truth about Him and what He said for you to do if you are to be accepted into Paradise at the time of Judgement.
You ought to know that those who obey Jesus Christ cannot be “good Muslims,” so why encourage them in being good Muslims?
Many Mufti (Malwi) teachers tell their followers that Jesus did not die on the cross, that someone else died in His place.
This is not true. Even the Koran itself does not say this. But let us look at that important point later as we continue “in search of the truth”.
What the Koran does say is this:
[4.157] And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.
[4.158] Nay! Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
Denying the crucifixion, the Koran also denies the resurrection. Without both, there is neither forgiveness of sins nor justification unto righteousness.
In Shahih al Bakhari, Vol. 3 Hadith #425 and Vol.4 Hadith #657 it refers to Jesus coming back to earth to be a LEADER and RULER of the Muslims.
Even as we in “Christendom” do not accept many books as inspired or spiritually authoritative, so it is with Muslims. If we would not encourage faith in those books, as with the Apocrypha, for example, why would we extol the value of Muslim literature and encourage faith in books that promote antiJewish and antiChristian values? In doing so, are you not playing with fire?
Now as a serious Muslim student I want you to ask God to answer the next series of questions for you.
Why is God going to send JESUS again to be a RULER and LEADER of the Muslim nation???
Why is God not going to send a Prophet who appeared on earth before Jesus, or a person who claims to be a prophet, who appeared after Him?
The basic question is —- Why send JESUS CHRIST???
Do not the Scriptures teach that the saints will come with Christ to rule? Did not Jesus say that the apostles would sit on thrones, judging Israel? Did not Paul say that the saints would reign with Christ, even to judge angels? Therefore, the logical deduction that someone comes is not necessarily that He is God. And is it clear that Jesus would rule over Muslims? Yes, we know He will (and does), but Muslims argue that, while Jesus was sent to the Jews, Muhammad was sent to them.
The Koran says that Jesus is coming back to rule and to Judge. No other person referred to in the Koran can claim or fulfil these two function because no-one else in the Koran is given this authority. The Koran says that Jesus Christ is the WORD OF ALLAH.
In Sura #3 A1-i-Imran : 45 it says : Behold!, the angel said : “Oh Mary; Allah giveth glad tidings of a WORD FROM HIM : His name will be CHRIST JESUS”.
A bit of a stretch, Jeffry. I think Muslims would argue, with good cause, with the statement that the Koran is calling Jesus Christ the Word of God. What is written below can certainly and more readily be taken in other ways, and seeing as how it is not inspired of God, though presuming to be, it is by nature hazy and variable. Have you not red the Scripture that says the ways of false religion are moveable, and you cannot know them (Proverbs 5:6)?
[3.45] When the angels said: O Marium, surely Allah gives you good news with a Word from Him (of one) whose name is the ‘. Messiah, Isa son of Marium, worthy of regard in this world and the hereafter and of those who are made near (to Allah).
[3.46] And he shall speak to the people when in the cradle and when of old age, and (he shall be) one of the good ones.
[3.47] She said: My Lord! when shall there be a son (born) to I me, and man has not touched me? He said: Even so, Allah creates what He pleases; when He has decreed a matter, He only says to it, Be, and it is.
[3.48] And He will teach him the Book and the wisdom and the Tavrat and the Injeel.
[3.49] And (make him) an apostle to the children of Israel: That I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I determine for you out of dust like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird with Allah’s permission and I heal the blind and the leprous, and bring the dead to life with Allah’s permission and I inform you of what you should eat and what you should store in your houses; most surely there is a sign in this for you, if you are believers.
[3.50] And a verifier of that which is before me of the Taurat and that I may allow you part of that which has been forbidden t you, and I have come to you with a sign from your Lord therefore be careful of (your duty to) Allah and obey me.
[3.51] Surely Allah is my Lord and your Lord, therefore serve Him; this is the right path.
The angel from God told Mary that the child she was to bear, whose name was to be called Christ Jesus was a WORD FROM GOD Himself.
Can any other man or prophet claim that he is THE WORD OF ALLAH??? No; Jesus Christ is the only person in all of the Koran identified as the WORD OF GOD.
The Koran also says that Jesus Christ is a SPIRIT from HIM.
In Sura # 4 Nisaa : 171 it says these words. “Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, was an Apostle (which means a sent one) of ALLAH and HIS WORD which He bestowed on Mary and a SPIRIT proceeding from HIM”.
The Koran in this text clearly says that Jesus Christ is a Spirit from God Himself. A Spirit from Allah, A Spirit from Jehovah.
We quote more of the Koran:
[4.171] O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.
[4.172] The Messiah does by no means disdain that he should be a servant of Allah, nor do the angels who are near to Him, and whoever disdains His service and is proud, He will gather them all together to Himself.
Can any other man or prophet claim that he is the WORD AND SPIRIT OF GOD HIMSELF ??? No, the only person in all of creation who can TRUTHFULLY claim this title is JESUS CHRIST.
There were several other things which were special about Jesus Christ which we should also examine.
Firstly, there was the special way in which He was born. The Koran tells of the virgin birth of Jesus Christ.
In Sura #3 A1-i-Imran 47 it says these special words: She said : “Oh my Lord; How can I have a son when no man has hath touched me??”
I ask you to think upon this mighty revelation from ALLAH. Why did ALLAH select this unique method for the birth of Jesus Christ?? Why did ALLAH choose to interrupt nature and the natural method of childbirth for the birth of His chosen RULER, LEADER and JUDGE???
If I say to you that it was for a very special purpose that the Lord God Almighty, the God of Abraham, yes ALLAH Himself, choose this special way for Jesus Christ to be born.
You make out Allah and God to be one and the same, Jeffry. This is the height of folly because the same person identifying himself as Allah in most of the Koran is clearly vicious, hateful, and antiChrist. Again, it is confusion. I wonder if credulous Muslims will not walk away suffering schizophrenia. “Listen to Allah; don’t listen to Allah; listen to Muhammad; don’t listen to Muhammad!”
I will say this: If God is drawing a soul unto Himself, and I say to that soul, “The Muslim religion is not the way,” that soul may be offended, yet notwithstanding, he or she will say, “I don’t like what you are saying, but I am willing to hear more. I am interested.” If that soul is not being drawn by the Father, he or she will say, “You have attacked my religion!”
The Muslim drawn by the Father will listen to the Scriptures. He or she will have no need to hear from the Koran because the Father is leading away from falsehood. You err in thinking you must use poisonous bait.
It was so that there would be no inherited sin is his life, passed down to him from an earthly father.
Because of his miraculous birth, with God performing the miracle of his conception, Jesus Christ was born without sin.
Can any other man or prophet claim to be born by a virgin birth or free from inherited sin?? No, only Jesus Christ can truthfully claim these titles.
The Koran also told that Jesus Christ preached to the people from childhood.
In Sura #3 A1-i-Imran : 46 it says these words : “He (Jesus) shall speak to the people in CHILDHOOD and in MATURITY. And He (Jesus) shall be of the company of the RIGHTEOUS”.
Why could Jesus be of the company of the righteous? Because he was born without sin and did not sin during His lifetime. Can any other man or prophet claim that He is righteous?? No, only Jesus Christ can claim that He is the RIGHTEOUS ONE.
The Koran says He is but one of the righteous ones, not the only one. So, the Koran does not say what you are saying here. The Scriptures also refer to the righteous, as for examples:
“And He delivered righteous Lot, oppressed with the lustful behavior of the lawless” (2 Peter 2:7 MKJV).
“And Jehovah said to Noah, You and all your house come into the ark, for I have seen you righteous before Me in this generation” (Genesis 7:1 MKJV).
Being righteous does not mean that one is God. While there is a distinction between a righteous one and The Righteous One, the Koran does not acknowledge it, and therefore cannot accomplish the necessary work in a soul. An evil tree cannot produce good fruit.
With all of the statements now laid before you from your OWN holy book the Koran itself, can you still say that Jesus Christ was only a Prophet??? No, I think you now may start to consider that maybe Jesus Christ is something more than a Prophet, but at this stage you are not quite sure what else Jesus Christ is.
Let me ask you something, Jeffry: Do you believe that God has shut up Israel from the faith until the Gentiles come in, at which time, He will bring Israel in? Paul is quite clear on those truths. Now if we, by using the Bible, the true Word of God, cannot persuade Jews to believe in Jesus until the time, how do you presume to persuade Muslims, by their book, which is not the Word of God, to embrace Jesus Christ? Furthermore, do you not think that as God has a timetable for the Jews, so He has a timetable for Muslims? As Paul Cohen pointed out to you, we declare in our writing, The Muslim Scourge, that God is sovereign over Muslims, with a particular use for them, and when He is done with chastening the West and others by them, He will alter all that is. In the end, He will save all Muslims too.
The Koran tells us that JESUS CHRIST lived on earth to guide the people to the TRUTH and to perform the greatest miracles.
The Muslims believe the same about Moses and others. Is Moses therefore God?
It is recorded that as well as making crippled people walk, deaf people to hear, blind people to see, healed people with demons and who had leprosy, He even was to raise people from the dead.
The prophets, apostles, and saints of God did the same. Are they to be believed upon by the Muslims, as with Christ?
Refer to Sura #3 A1-i-Imran : 49. Who among men can claim to be able to TRUTHFULLY perform these miracles? No-one except Jesus Christ Himself.
[3.49] And (make him) an apostle to the children of Israel: That I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I determine for you out of dust like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird with Allah’s permission and I heal the blind and the leprous, and bring the dead to life with Allah’s permission and I inform you of what you should eat and what you should store in your houses; most surely there is a sign in this for you, if you are believers.
Again, lies mixed with some truth. Jesus did not do such things as make living birds from clay. This is not good or holy food for consumption, Jeffry. Also, neither is this the Voice of the Lord. He did not and does not speak this way.
With all of the revelations about Jesus Christ, who is Jesus Christ??
The Koran says : “FEAR ALLAH AND OBEY JESUS CHRIST”. Who is this Jesus Christ that we must obey???
Sura #3 A1-i-Amran : 45. Says that Jesus Christ is the Word of God. This means that Jesus Christ is God’s revelation of Himself to us.
The dictionary defines “WORD” as a manifesation and expression of the mind, and WILL of GOD.
The mind of God is what He is, His expression of Himself to us. The will of God is what God desires and requires from us.
In order to get a better and fuller understanding of what and who Jesus Christ really is, let us examine some passages from both the Koran and the Ingeel (Bible).
The particular edition of the Koran used for these texts is published by Dar A1-Kitab Al Masri and the particular edition of the Ingeel is the New International Version (NIV) published by Zondervan. As you read these two sets of scriptures I pray that the Lord God Himself will start to open your spiritual eyes to the truth of these words and allow you to understand the real purpose of why Jesus Christ came to earth.
Let me tell you that the NIV often fails to accurately express the truth about the Lord Jesus Christ on key points. Are you not aware of this?
MARY’S MIRACULOUS PREGNANCY
Sura #21 Anbiyaa : 91
“And [remember] her who guarded her chastity:
We breathed into her of Our Spirit, and We made her and her son as a sign for all peoples”.
Matthew 1:20-21
“Joseph, Son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will give birth to a son and you are to give him the name Jesus because he will save his people from their sins”.
Both documents confirm that it was Mary that gave birth and that birth was to be special and the son born to her was to be called JESUS CHRIST a name given to her by an angel from God even BEFORE the child was born.
Not many people can claim that there name was chosen by God Himself, before their birth and told to their parents before the child is born.
Yet we have more than one example of persons being named by God before birth. John the Immerser is one. Isaac is another. Your arguments are weak, illegitimate really.
VIRGIN BIRTH
Sura #19 Maryam :20,21
She said, “How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?”
Luke 1:30-32,34
30 But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God.
31 You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus.
32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,
34 “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”
Again we see that both books confirm that Mary was a virgin who was especially chosen by God to be the Mother of Jesus Christ. Both books confirm that God performed a miracle in the birth of Jesus Christ.
CHRIST BLESSED
Sura # 19 Maryam : 30,31
“ He said: “I am indeed a servant of God: he hath given me Revelation and made me a Prophet: and He hath blessed me wheresoever I bee and hath enjoined on me prayer and charity as I live”.
Matthew 21:9
9 The crowds that went ahead of him and those that followed shouted, “Hosanna to the Son of David!” “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!” “Hosanna in the highest!”
In this series of scriptures we see that God blesses Jesus Christ, that He is given Revelation (visions) about things which existed at that time and visions about things which were to come in the future.
Visions and revelations are two different things. One can have a vision or a dream, such as Pharaoh had for example, yet have no revelation on it. Joseph was given understanding (revelation) of Pharaoh’s dreams (visions). This is not an important point for now, except that it shows that you are not familiar with the things of the Spirit of God, and we make that point to let you know that you do not know as you think to know, so that you will realize your need and repent.
For us to obey Jesus Christ we must become aware of what those visions say and what we as individual people, who fear God (ALLAH) must do to be in the perfect will of God.
JESUS LED BY HOLY SPIRIT
Sura # 2 Bakara : 253
“… To Jesus, the son of Mary, We give clear [Signs] and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit ….”
Luke 4:1
4:1 Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the desert,
Here we see that God gave to Jesus Christ power by giving Him the Holy Spirit. The power of the Holy Spirit gives you the ability to stand firm against Satan (your enemy) and defeat him, when he tempts you to do evil things. The Bible says each individual person can receive the Holy Spirit from God, if they believe also.
Not quite. The Bible does qualify “belief.” Peter puts it this way:
“And we are His witnesses of these things. And so also is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him” (Acts 5:32 MKJV).
We point this out because the common notion of “belief” today is deceptive. As James says, true faith is manifest in true works. True faith bears fruit, even as false faith also bears fruit, the two being apparently the same, yet quite different. If I have an apple tree that produces fruit, I see apples. If one wishes to lead someone to believe that he has an apple tree, he might be able to buy apples and hang them on a tree and make it look like an apple tree, (given skill, season, similarities, and so forth), temporarily deceiving. That is what many conversions to Christ are all about. I see your message here as effecting false conversions, giving the appearance of desirable results.
JESUS’ SINLESS NATURE
Sura # 19 Maryam : 17,19
“ We sent unto her Our Spirit and it assumed for her the likeness of a perfect man. I am the messenger of the Lord that I may bestow on you a faultless son.”
Hebrews 4:15: 7:28
15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are–yet was without sin.
28 For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.
As was said earlier Jesus was special in that He was born without sin, a perfect man, faultless before the eyes of God forever.
That “likeness of a perfect man” was, according to the Koran, the messenger of Allah who was speaking of the Son (Whom the Koran does not recognize as Lord), Jesus, that he would bestow on Mary.
Because Jesus was perfect in the eyes of God, charged with the power of the Holy Spirit, He was able to perform many marvelous miracles, as shown in the following passages of scripture.
Again, Muslims could argue that Moses and Elijah performed miracles, as did Peter, Stephen and Paul. Were they perfect, as Christ was perfect?
JESUS MIRACLES
Sura # 2 Bakara : 87
“We gave Jesus the son of Mary clear [signs] and strengthened Him with the Holy Spirit”.
Sura # 29 Ankabut : 50
“Yet they say: ‘Why are not signs sent down to him from his Lord? Say: ‘The Signs are indeed with God: and I am indeed a clear warner”.
John 3:2
2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
In this passage we also get an indication of the fact that Jesus Christ KNOWS what will happen in the future. For this reason alone, we need to study His teachings, so that we know what events are to happen in the future and be able to identify them when they do happen and prepare ourselves for your ruler, leader and Judge.
So we have to accept that Jesus Christ is the means by which we can be brought closer to God because He can be our mediator, or intercessor, through Him alone can you be granted access to the throne room of God Almighty and be granted the answers to your prayers and petitions.
Why, you may ask? Well, remember that Jesus Christ is the WORD OF GOD, made flesh. The word comes out of the mouth of a person. The WORD OF GOD came out the God Himself.
JESUS KNEW THE FUTURE
Sura # 43 Zukhruf: 61, 63
“ And [Jesus] shall be a sign [for the coming of] the Hour of Judgement: therefore have no doubt about the [Hour] but follow ye Me: this is the straight way.” When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: ‘Now have I come to you with wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the [points] on which ye dispute: therefore fear Allah and obey me.’”
Matthew 24:29-32
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days “‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.
31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near.
There is no clear indication here in the Koran that Jesus knew the future.
MEDIATOR
Sura # 39 Zumar: 44
“Say: ‘To God belongs exclusively [the right to grant] intercession: to Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth: in the end, it is to Him that ye shall be brought back’.”
1 Timothy 2:5-7
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men–the testimony given in its proper time.
7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle–I am telling the truth, I am not lying–and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.
WORD OF GOD
Sura # 3 Al-I-Imran :45
“Behold!” the angels said: “O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: His name will be Jesus Christ.”
John 1:1,14
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
As has been stated in the words previously, Jesus Christ is our only means of gaining access to God Himself, and Jesus can act as our intercessor to God Almighty, if we believe in Him and ask Him to do so.
But many people today are told this is not the case, but we can see from the word itself what is really true.
It is not clear here that the Koran says Jesus is the Word of God. Furthermore, while you subtly refer to “the word itself,” you suggest that the Koran is the Word of God, whether you mean it or not.
Many people are told that Jesus Christ did not die, but was raised up to Heaven before death. The KORAN DOES NOT SAY THIS!!!
The Bible also does not say many things that people, mostly those professing faith in Christ, believe about Jesus.
The Koran clearly says that Jesus Christ shall die. The Koran then goes on to say that God will exalt Him and raise Him up to Himself. This means that Jesus Christ first has to die. THEN BE RAISED FROM THE DEAD, and then BE RAISED UP TO HEAVEN, to be exalted above all other Gods.
In many of these examples, there are truths, Jeffry. However, if one cannot live by eating a plateful of good food laced with a tiny quantity of poison, how do you propose to give life to one with a plate full of poison, with tidbits of nutritious food?
JESUS’ DEATH
Sura # 3 Ali-I-Imran: 55
“When Allah said: ‘O Jesus I will cause you to die and exalt you in My presence and clear you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the day of resurrection .”
Philippians 2:8-9
8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death– even death on a cross!
RESURRECTION OF JESUS
Sura # 3 Ali-I-Imran : 55
“When Allah said: ‘O Jesus, I will cause you to die and to exalt you in My presence ….”.
1 Corinthians 15:3-5
3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance : that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
5 and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve.
Here is yet another problem. The Koran says nothing about the resurrection of Christ after 3 days in the grave. It speaks of “the day of resurrection,” at an indeterminate later date. As for the first part of the Koran verse that you quote here, many Muslims blow themselves up today, taking many with them, expecting to be “exalted in Allah’s presence.” Yet, even if Jesus died, and was not raised from the dead, of what value would His death be, if ever so apparently unselfish? None whatsoever, when it comes to eternal life.
“For if the dead are not raised, then Christ is not raised. And if Christ is not raised, your faith is in foolish; you are yet in your sins” (1 Corinthians 15:16-17 MJKV).
ASCENDED AFTER DEATH
Sura # 3 Ali-I-Imran: 55
“… . O Jesus! I will take you and raise you to Myself …..”
Ephesians 1:19-20
19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength,
20 which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms,
far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come.
Do you not think that the Muslims expect that Muhammad too will be “raised to Allah,” along with Abraham and Ishmael?
AUTHOR OF CREATION
Sura # 5 Maida: 113, 114
“ Then God will say, “O Jesus son of Mary! Recount my favour to thee and to they mother. Behold, I strengthened thee with the Holy Spirit, so thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold, I taught the the Book of Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel. And behold! Thou makes out of clay, as it were the figure of a bird, by My leave, and you breathest into it, and it becometh a bird, by My leave. And thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! Thou bringest forth the dead, by My leave,”
Colossians 1:16-17
16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
John 1:3-4
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
We see that to Jesus is given the authority to be the giver of life. I am not telling you something from the bible here that is not also included in the Koran. The Koran clearly says that by the leave of Allah, (God Himself), Jesus Christ is given power over death. Jesus Christ is given the power to bring people back to spiritual and physical life after they have died.
Can any other man or prophet mentioned in the Koran or the Bible make this claim?? No, only Jesus Christ can truthfully claim these things because God Himself has given to Him, and only Him this authority. So we see that Jesus Christ was more than a Prophet.
Jesus is greater than the angels
Heb. 1:4 says: “Jesus became as much superior to the angels as the name He has inherited is superior to theirs.”
Jesus is looked upon in Heaven with authority that is higher than that of the angels. Why? Because He is greater than the angels. He sits at the right hand of God Himself, continually acting as the intercessor of those people who believe on His name and the sacrifice He made on the cross for us.
The Scripture also declares:
“But we see Jesus, Who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor, that He by the grace of God should taste death for all” (Hebrews 2:9 MKJV).
Jesus was greater than Abraham.
John 8:58 says : “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am”.
Jesus was greater than Moses.
Heb. 3:3 says : “Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself”.
Jesus said to God, as recorded in the Gospel of John 8:23, these words : “Glorify Me In Your Presence With The Glory I Had With You Before The World Began.”
Jesus said to his followers, his disciplines : “You are from below; I AM from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world”. (John 8:23)
Discussed, corrected.
Jesus was saying I am not from this world, but from another place. Jesus was telling all those who will accept the truth, that he was more then just on ordinary human being, He is the Son of God Himself.
So you say, if Jesus is the Son of God, (I am not completely convinced yet, but just say if He is)…
Jeffry, many Catholics and Mormons will readily declare that Jesus is the Son of God. Where does it get them? Do you believe they are saved because they believe that Jesus is the Son of God? Again, there is “belief” and there is “belief.” I see no more value in your definition than in that of Catholics and Mormons or JW’s.
…why did God send Him to earth in the first place and what shall be the signs in the earth or the heavens, so we can be ready for His SECOND COMING, HIS COMING AGAIN.
Yes, both the Koran and the Bible both prophecy that Jesus Christ will appear on this earth again.
The Koran may repeat or record that which the writer(s) of the Koran found elsewhere, just as you and I might write things recorded in the Bible. That is not to accord us the glory of having prophesied. The Koran has no godly prophecy. You are crediting the Koran with inspiration of God. Jeffry, that is abominable before God, Who had nothing to do with that record. Did God inspire “Playboy” because Hugh Hefner happened to mention God in a positive light? Would you presume to convert sex dolls and addicts to Christ, using Hefner’s words for credibility, if he said something true about Jesus?
JESUS CHRIST IS COMING AGAIN
Sura # 43 Zukhruf: 61
“And [Jesus] shall be a sign [for the coming of] the Hour [of judgement]. Therefore have no doubt about the [Hour], but follow ye Me: this is the straight way.”
Acts 1:10-11
10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them.
11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”
But the important point in this passage is that Jesus says that you follow Him. To follow Him you must know why He came and what was the reason for His coming, so that you can prepare yourself for His second coming.
If you read the verses surrounding the one you quote here, you will see that the words of Christ are directed to “the children of Israel,” the physical descendants of Jacob, and not to the sons of Ishmael or others. So, if you are to go by the Koran, Jesus was not speaking to them. They have their prophet, Muhammad. Talk about a diabolical book!
Many have said, “Follow me,” as did Muhammad.
Most importantly, there is no “second coming.” He has come many times, is here, and will come. The “second coming” doctrine with its carnal understanding is all part of the false gospel, removing Christ to another place and time, thus conveniently forcing Him out of the mind, as you do now by teaching such falsehood. How convenient to develop a doctrine that removes Him, and then, to salve the conscience and impress men, hypocritically pretend to look forward to, and preach, His “return”!
So let us start to examine the scriptures and see if we can determine WHY JESUS CAME…..
If we examine some of the early prophets of God you will see that they lived long fruitful lives.
For example, we see that Noah lived 950 years (Gen. 9:29), Adam lived 930 years (Gen. 5:5), Abraham lived 175 years (Gen. 25:7) and Ishmael lived 135 years (Gen. 25:17).
All of these lives, as recorded in the bible, were long and fruitful and God blessed them.
What kind of fruit or “fruitful life” is of value to God? Is it fruits of the flesh or fruits of faith? Ishmael scorned Isaac when they were yet young. That was why Ishmael and his mother were cast out:
“But then even as he born according to flesh persecuted him born according to the Spirit, so it is also now. But what does the Scripture say? ‘Cast out the slave-woman and her son; for in no way shall the son of the slave-woman inherit with the son of the free woman.’ Then, brothers, we are not children of a slave-woman, but of the free woman” (Galatians 4:29-31 MKJV).
You glorify children of the flesh along with children of the Spirit. There can only be one reason for that, Jeffry: you are a child of the flesh. Not that we hate children of the flesh, but we recognize that they do hate us. That is why you oppose what we do and suggest we do things quite differently, even as children of the flesh would choose to do them, savouring the things that are of men, which are an offence to God.
In today’s society however, the average age is about 70 years. It is now considered quite rare for a person to live more than 100 years old. If a person does live to that age nowadays, they are usually questioned by many people as to why they live so long.
Why is it that over the generations, man has had his life shortened down to only 70 years??
God says that sin in a mans life will shorten it from its originally planned length. “The fear of the Lord adds length to Life.” (Proverbs 10:27)
The proverbs were written by King Solomon, the wisest man ever to live on the earth. If he says that, then may be we should listen to him. What he was really saying is that to obey the laws of God and His commandments will add effective length to your life.
Are we speaking longevity of physical life, Jeffry? Consider that David, a man after God’s heart, died at age 70, with physical infirmity. Yet Saul before him also died at age 70, a strong but unbelieving man on a battlefield, from which David had been removed for weakness. And Solomon too died at age 70, having given himself over to heathen gods. Are we talking physical duration? Many unbelievers have died of old age in this day, some being rather evil. You sound very much like an SDA, full of your own righteousness.
In 1 Peter. 3:10-12 he says these words. “For whosoever loves life and sees good days, must keep his tongue from evil and his lips from deceitful speech. He must turn from evil and do good; he must seek peace and pursue it. For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and His ears are attentive to their prayer, but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.
I will forego the rest of this paper, though I have red it. Here is your suggested prayer at the end, of which I have something to say.
The following prayer is a suggested way to call upon Jesus to save you from you sins and death.
Dear God in Heaven, I call upon you to save me. I want Jesus as my life’s Saviour and sacrifice for my sins, those sins which so offend you and have caused a separation between us. I choose to believe in you, in your death for me, and your gift of everlasting life, by the same power that raised Jesus from death after the cross. On the basis of what Christ has done for me, I offer this request to you.
AMEN
While this prayer has true elements expressed, it is the “Fedex” way to deception and false salvation security. One must find these elements in reality, within, which only a work of God can effect. Many are deceived into thinking they are saved simply by mouthing those words. This is how Billy Graham and thousands of other preachers operate, thinking they have converted multitudes to Christ. A bigger lie cannot be told or believed. We are overrun with proselytes naming Jesus and at once opposing Him with a prayer, handshake, Bible quote, and smile. Jeffry, you are operating this way. Not good at all. Repent.
Contending earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints,
Paul and Victor