We received this note from starving4christ@…:
i am praying for you.
ryan
In looking up Ryan’s address, we discovered he was a local fellow, the pastor of Grace Community Reformed Baptist Church of Lethbridge, Alberta.
Our reply:
“They shall not hunger nor thirst; nor shall the heat nor sun strike them; for He Who has mercy on them shall lead them; even by the springs of water He shall guide them” (Isaiah 49:10 MKJV).
“Jesus answered and said to her, Whoever drinks of this water shall thirst again, but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst, but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life” (John 4:13-14 MKJV).
Hi Ryan,
So you would pray for us. Any particular reason why? Whenever I hear that from formal religious directions such as yours, I find at the other end a self-righteous soul who thinks he or she has something I do not, but should, and often assumes that I am in serious error or offense against God and Truth. I could be mistaken in your case, but then you can always correct me. I am willing to listen and be corrected where necessary, by God’s grace. Are you willing to meet with me personally, perhaps on Saturday?
Your email address (starving4christ…) tells me you don’t know the Lord. He feeds His sheep, and they don’t starve. If you are starving for Christ, it could be because you are full of yourself, which I happen to know you are. If so, what can you possibly do for me who have been crucified with Christ and therefore emptied of myself, resurrected, and filled with Him, feasting at His banqueting table in His Kingdom?
Can you honestly assure me that He hears your prayers? No, don’t give me Scripture such as:
“And this is the confidence that we have toward Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of Him” (1 John 5:14-15 MKJV).
I know what the Bible says, and I have heard many quote It to prove personal experience; that does not necessarily mean they have what the Bible talks about. It may only mean they think they have it because the Bible says it is so concerning God’s children. Presuming they are God’s children, they presume to have right to the promises of the Scriptures. Like hanging apples on a poplar tree to show it is an apple tree.
Or they try to convince themselves they have something simply by applying the Scriptures to themselves, doing all they can, by the will of the flesh, to believe, so that they might have it. In which case, they are going about it backwards, which is flesh, the work of man, not of God. If flesh, it is fruitless altogether for the Kingdom of God, though not for Satan’s kingdoms. In which case, it is antiChrist.
Ryan, you are a zealous and self-confident man, but an empty one, though full of yourself. You have heard of Christ, but never met Him. Your email address says you are starving for Him, but I perceive you are starving for glory, not Him.
I am in Him and He in me. Meet me, and you will have met Him. Does that sound arrogant to you? Do you think I am deceived or simply being silly or religious?
I think you need to read at our site, perhaps starting with Our Testimonies and going from there. I take it you may have red somewhat now; maybe not. Pray that God might have mercy on you as you are so bound in your religious experience and indoctrination, chains of darkness, which are sure to hold you from hearing and acknowledging the Truth of Jesus Christ.
If I err in my assessment of you, let me know, not that I trust you are in any position to judge. It would simply be an opportunity to take this further.
1 Corinthians 2:13-16 MKJV
(13) These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
(14) But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
(15) But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is judged by no one.
(16) For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.
I would be glad to meet and talk with you. I am not as unfriendly as this letter may sound to you, but I know the Lord, I am called of Him to serve and to walk with Him and to testify against the works of men (as we do on our site), and I will not play games with you.
Victor
Hi Ryan, Paul Cohen here.
“I am praying for you.” How about putting some legs to your prayers? If you are truly concerned for our souls, because convinced we are in error, then come and show us where and how we err and sin. We are willing to hear you out. Just be prepared to also hear our answer, which will not be based on men’s doctrines or interpretations of the Scriptures, but the actual meaning born out by the whole of God’s testimony. Are you prepared to make good on your declaration of concern for us, or will it just be so much sentiment of the kind Victor describes, with no backbone or substance whatsoever?
Sara and I, who run The Path of Truth from Montana, will be visiting in Lethbridge this weekend. We also want you to feel comfortable, so bring whoever you like with you. Those affiliated with your church, whom we include in this email, are also invited to join us. Our sole purpose on earth is to testify of the Lord Jesus Christ in all places He sends us. Is this not a wonderful opportunity for all involved?
We heard no word from Ryan the weekend we were visiting.
On Monday, Ryan replied:
you err in your judgment of me. you must be a prophet to “tell me of all that i ever did” from a brief email of 5 words.
your response confirms to me that i need not dialogue w/ you both, as it seems you have an ungodly penchant for quarrels w/ any who disagree w/ you.
i prayed for you, that is enough. whether you think God has heard my prayer, i really don’t care. i need not justify myself before others.
if from the words, “i am praying for you” i have come across as an arrogant lover of self, then please pray for me, that God would indeed humble me.
as to my email address, it refers more to perhaps paul’s striving to know Jesus more & more, his straining, agonizing pursuit to attain more of Christ (found in philippians 3:7ff.). by sovereign grace, i have found the Source of all living water, who has indeed satisfied my deepest thirists (Jesus Christ). so please do not presume i am not a born-again Christian simply b/c you have read into my email address.
i do not want to debate. i have spent much fruitless hours doing so, and often end up more frustrated than ever. i know that i too have a love for quarrelling, and so i want to nip this in the bud (see proverbs 17:14) before a couple of ‘Christians’ get into an argument, and that before unbelievers (it seems you post most of your ‘debates’ online for all to see.)
in Christ,
ryan
Victor and Paul’s reply:
Ryan, I would love to believe that you want to pray for me (or us) because you are positive about us; I just haven’t known “out of the blue” statements like yours, coming from a total stranger, with no identification, explanation, or frame of reference, to be positive or with good intent, but only as I have already set forth. But prove me wrong; I won’t mind a whit.
Because you express yourself and relate as you do, and are unwilling to come into the open, how can you possibly expect me to believe you?
I hope that if you read our letters to you again, perhaps more than once, you would find that we are not arguing and have no desire to argue with you and do not have the least amount of ill intent toward you. God forbid. Indeed, by the grace and power of the indwelling Christ, we want only good for all (this desire not being of ourselves). Consider that your judgment of us is in error (I say that without a spirit of belligerence or argument).
“The wicked flee when no man pursues; but the righteous are bold as a lion” (Proverbs 28:1 MKJV).
Honesty and directness are not necessarily strife or ill will, but we have found that many are intimidated by the naked truth and forthright conversation directed personally. Most often it is because they are truly not born again as they claim and are led to believe. The most difficult thing they must face is the truth about themselves, which happens when they come face to face with the Truth of God. Consider that your perception could be because you are in fear.
“Jesus saw Nathanael coming to Him and said of him, Behold an Israelite indeed in whom is no guile!” (John 1:47 MKJV)
We know you are not born again – not an insult, not a false judgment, not an assumption, not based on carnal knowledge or after the appearance, but a witness of the Spirit of God. As Jesus said, “You shall know them by their fruits.”
Yes, Ryan, I am a prophet of the Lord God, and I tell you your spiritual state, but you don’t believe me, and you don’t believe in true modern day prophets, do you? You hold the very thought in disdain. Meanwhile, you claim to preach only what the Bible declares, yet nowhere can you find a single piece of evidence to support your doctrine that true prophets and gifts of the Spirit of God do not exist since the days of Christ in the flesh. Indeed, there is clear testimony that there can be, and have been, true prophets after Christ. Just another of your fruits?
Come, Ryan, no bluffing, no pretense, no religious posturing, and no unsubstantiated claims. Get real. Things are not as you claim them to be with yourself. You may deceive men, or think to deceive them, but you don’t fool God. The Kingdom of God is at hand and has come on you.
“But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is judged by no one. For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ” (1 Corinthians 2:15-16 MKJV).
Victor
Ryan, Paul here.
If the Lord told the woman at the well “all she ever did” upon such a brief encounter, why do you find it strange that those who have His Spirit and are His brothers do the same? The Lord went even further in describing what powers His brethren would have to do marvelous works, because He went to the Father:
“Truly, truly, I say to you, He who believes on Me, the works that I do he shall do also, and greater works than these he shall do, because I go to My Father” (John 14:12 MKJV).
Why do you reject the Lord’s words and the fact that He still testifies? How can you worship God if you don’t receive prophecy? Are you not even aware of what the Word of God says (yet you claim not only to believe on Christ, but to minister His salvation as preached in the Scriptures)?
“And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said to me, See, do not do it! I am your fellow servant, and of your brothers who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God, for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy” (Revelation 19:10 MKJV).
Ryan, one need not be a prophet to plainly see that you do not believe Him at all. Not all God’s children are prophets, but all have Him abiding within, which makes them greater than the prophets of old:
“Truly I say to you, Among those who have been born of women there has not risen a greater one than John the Baptist. But the least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than he” (Matthew 11:11 MKJV).
You are not greater than John and you know it, don’t you? You are not a son of God walking in the power of His Spirit. You deny such a thing exists, even as you present yourself as His minister. This is speaking and acting in the spirit of antiChrist. You have dead religion, not the living God. Indeed, you are starving for a lack of Christ.
You ask us to pray that God would humble you. Why don’t you listen to what we are telling you, which you cannot deny, and humble yourself? Why be a stubborn fool? If we give you the antidote to your spiritual poverty and wretchedness, what do you think God will do if you say, “Let Him force me to take it”? Indeed, He will humble you and you will take it, but you will also subject yourself to far more trouble in the interim by rejecting Him. It will not go well for you.
Nevertheless, if further subjection to vanity is needful for you, then that is what will be. We have spoken to you as part of the process of your judgment, whether you believe us or not. The Word we have spoken to you will judge you in the last day, which starts now.
Contending for the faith, as exhorted to by our brother in Christ, and not fruitlessly arguing,
Paul
Ryan’s response:
for the record, how do you know i am have not been born again by the Spirit of God? how do you know for certain that i do not have the Spirit indwelling me?
um, how do you know that i don’t believe that the office of prophet has ceased? perhaps you are a false prophet, since i agree that it has not ceased.
you have ‘judged’ my fruit, and have condemned me as an unbeliever. but in our brief dialogues, i have sensed the opposite of the fruit of the Spirit in you, which include “love, joy, peace, KINDNESS, goodness, faithfulness, GENTLENESS, SELF-CONROL” (gal. 5:22-23).
perhaps if you have ‘prophesied’ that i am the unbeliever that i am, you should heed paul’s words to timothy as you seek to ‘convert’ me to the truth: “and the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will” (2 tim. 2:24-25).
the reason i don’t want to debate w/ you is b/c i’ve done this song & dance w/ people like you before, and it’s been a waste of my time. something paul warned timothy about was people who would take away time from the flock that was entrusted to them. i agree w/ much on your site, but to be honest your exegesis is often quite horrid (the ‘sabbath’ issue was brutal, tho’ i admire your wit for trying to debate me on a saturday, knowing we gather on the Lord’s Day….btw, read d.a. carson’s book on this issue…oh, wait, it’s written by a man, so you won”t, tho’ you expect me to read your website, which is also written by man (you)….hmmm, another inconsistent strawman…), and you have a very weak (if any) concept of the discipline of ‘biblical theology’ (namely, a study of the over-arching theme of the Bible – you are caught up w/ petty hobby-horses & proof-texts to fuel your penchant for quarrels rather than God’s great plan from eternity past traced thru genesis to revelation, namely to save a people for Himself in Christ Jesus, to be to the praise of His glorious grace).
finally, why can’t i use 1 cor. 2:14-16 against you? paul tells us to “test” prophesies. i have found yours not only wanting, but completely wrong. i have dealt w/ all of your strawmen arguments before w/ men like you (there is truly nothing new under the sun), which anyone who is not blinded by the love of winning arguments more than souls can easily discern.
to you, it seems being right is more important than being righteous. you shall know a tree by its fruit; as a ‘prophet’ myself, i judge that your ‘fruit’ reeks of the flesh. you have no evidence of the Spirit of God in your lives (e.g. some liberal theolgians can right on some issues, like predestination, etc, but are still dead in their trespasses & sins).
if i took 100 Christians (whom you will quickly say aren’t, but whatever) to your websight, they would quickly wonder about your salvation, since you have no love for other Christians (again, you ‘judge’ they are not), which is what the Lord Jesus said would show that we belong to Him (john 13:35). evidently, you do not love those whom Jesus does, and 1 john has a horrid diagnosis for such people.
your work on the denial of the Trinity (which you respond w/ your strawmen argument that it was concocted by man, but whatever [again]) shows that you are outside of orthodoxy (yeah, i know, the councils held at nicea on were conducted by men….but again, you too are just men, and tell me i need to listen to you….oh, right, you have the Spirit, and they didn’t….you see why i refuse to debate? circular reasoning, especially when errant is futile, and i have more important things to deal w/ (like preaching the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ to the world around me)
this is just going to get ugly. so let’s stop it here. i am convinced you are wrong, you are convinced i am wrong.
honestly, i initially wrote to tell you i am praying for you. i did. i prayed for you after your harsh email condemning me as an unbeliever w/ no basis. finally, i will pray now, like elijah, that the true God will reveal Himself to us, and that the erring party will truly repent.
i love Jesus Christ w/ everything that is w/in. by sovereign grace, in God’s eternal electing purposes, He called me, regenerated (i.e. caused me to become born again to a new & living hope) me, justified me, and glorified me. i am saved by grace alone thru faith alone in Christ alone, to the glory of God alone. the Spirit bears witness w/ my spirit that i belong to the Father, and am a co-heir w/ Christ. tho’ still a sinner, the Spirit has manifested His fruit in my life, and my desire is holiness, to be made into the image of the Son of God [the purpose of election, rom. 8:29). i am eagerly awaiting Jesus to consummate the kingdom of God and to praise, worship, and adore Him forever & ever.
i really don’t know how else to convince you that i am elect. God knows those who are His (2 tim. 2:19, i know the rest of the verse, see above for my desire of holiness & not lawlessness).
gentlemen, it’s been a slice. i’m done arguing. i need not avenge or vindicate myself. my omniscient God knows my heart.
if i have ‘lost’ this argument, i promise i won’t cry or be upset. may Christ magnify Himself in your ministry. may the Father receive eternal praise thru all of us. may the Spirit fill us all, so that we might truly do the greater works, which primarily is furthering the kingdom of God (i.e. His reign) to the ends of the earth.
grace to you
in Christ,
pastor ryan case
Victor’s reply:
Ryan, may I assure you this is not about enmity, quarreling, or disputing about doctrine. This is about you and your spiritual bankruptcy before God, and unlike your manner to accuse, condemn, and opine without substance, we will prove and substantiate what we have to say to you. Not that you will receive it – it is not difficult to see you are hell-bent on maintaining your own righteousness you presume to be of God.
May I point out a few things in your letter? While several of these in and of themselves mean very little, together they display a picture that cannot be denied or ignored, except to your detriment. Let’s begin with false, at least unwarranted, assumptions and accusations:
1) That a prophet of God cannot err in perception or judgment (you suggest I am a false prophet because I said you did not believe in true modern day prophets).
2) That I prophesied that you did not believe in true modern day prophets.
3) That your definition of a true modern day prophet is the Bible’s definition.
Are you, as so many others in evangelical circles, of the belief that a prophet is simply one who preaches (“one who speaks forth”)? Is that why you call yourself a ‘prophet’? If that is your definition, yet you know what we mean by the word, are you not being disingenuous?
And if you do call yourself a prophet, what’s with the quotations? Is it because you know we do not agree on the definition? (Not assuming; just asking.)
And what’s with the “um,” pastor? Is this your prayerful, compassionate spirit you claim is interceding on our behalf?
4) That I have condemned you as an unbeliever.
Calling you one and condemning you as one are not the same, though they will be the same to you when you prefer to think otherwise.
5) That we are without the fruits of the Spirit – kindness, gentleness, and self-control (those you emphasized).
Can you tell me what words we have spoken that lack these fruits? Are they the words that simply speak the truth about you? Let me ask you something: Did Jesus have these fruits? Is He not the Author of them?
Was He lacking these fruits when He called the Pharisees a brood of vipers and hypocrites? What good does it do the Kingdom of God and mankind to make unsubstantiated judgments and accusations? Something to think about?
5) That we seek to convert you to the truth.
6) That Jesus should have used Paul’s counsel to Timothy about “correcting his opponents with gentleness.”
7) That you have met people like us before.
Is it a matter of convenience to you that you should lump us in with others who have disagreed with you, whether righteously or otherwise? I believe you deliberately ignore the substance of what we say to you and condemn it as unkind and unloving because you don’t want to hear the truth about yourself. Is that not so? At the very least, you don’t understand what we are saying to you, not caring to know.
I can tell you this: if you have ever met people like us before, we are the last straw. God is finished winking with you.
8) That I was witty, or trying to be so, in asking to meet on the Sabbath. It happened to be the day we all had good opportunity to do so. The day of the week, in and of itself, makes no difference to me as to when we would talk to you.
And do you really “admire” my wit, Ryan, or are you just trying to be smart in your prayerful spirit for me?
9) That we intended to debate with you.
10) That you gather on the Lord’s Day. Nowhere in Scripture will you find a shred of evidence that Sunday is the Lord’s Day. That is a lie created by men and perpetrated by those who do not care for, or recognize, the Lord’s Day.
11) That you preach only what the Bible teaches. You preach quite otherwise.
12) That we will read nothing written by a man.
You set up straw men, attack them, and then accuse us of making them. Ryan, are you not, therefore, falsely accusing? Where do you find us even suggesting we will read nothing by men? We do it all the time.
13) That we should take your opinion as fact.
While we give you Scripture and substance to support what we speak, as we do now, you give us nothing but your opinion. You are empty, Ryan, and you presume to feed others?
14) That we have a “penchant” for quarrels. We speak for God and tell you of your state of sin for His sake and yours, and you argue, making it unpleasant for all. And you accuse us for doing this?
15) That you are a prophet of God, by whatever definition.
16) That we do not love the brethren because we rebuke sharply those who profess but do not walk in the faith of Christ. Because we do not caress vipers and acknowledge Pharisees to be children of God does not mean we do not love the brethren in Christ.
17) That you are accurate and righteous in your judgment of us. Is it any wonder that you can’t reason or understand anything, with your self-styled spirituality? Counterfeits simply don’t work, Ryan.
18) That we disrespect what all men have to say, simply because they are men. And you tell us that we set up straw men?
19) That orthodox Christianity is Biblically-sound and of God.
If you were a true prophet of God, you would know orthodox Christianity is Mystery, Babylon the great, the mother of harlots, of which you are a member in particular.
20) That you preach the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.
21) That our correspondence will get ugly.
Why do you assume so? Is it because you even now prove it by getting sarcastic, instead of “prayerful”? Is it because you have a “penchant” for false accusations and assumptions? And you call yourself a “pastor”?
22) That we are being, or will be, ugly with you.
You can’t point to one word where we are ugly before God or have any inclination to be so. Is the truth about yourself ugly to you, Ryan? They that hate the Lord hate the Law of God because it condemns them. You hate the truth about yourself because it makes you ugly, does it not?
23) That we were harsh with you in the letter we sent after your note.
We were not harsh at all, not even relatively so. You want harsh? The Lord can arrange that, and will, because you refuse to heed His warnings and rebuke.
He has done harsh many times before, so much so that women who only cared to be treated with loving tender care were driven by famine to eat their own children in a siege. Many today calling themselves Christians are perishing by plague and disease. He is finished winking with you, Ryan.
24) That you love Jesus Christ.
It is “another Jesus” you love – a cunning, mesmerizing counterfeit one, who has you thoroughly seduced, according to your desire. How do we know? Do we have substance as we require of you? Notice, we are at #24 and counting, with much more to specifically point out to you, a double witness delivering many witnesses, according to the Law of God, by gracious enablement.
25) That you are called, regenerated, and glorified, saved through faith; but you have never known the faith that truly saves.
26) That it is the Spirit of God that bears witness with your spirit that you are a child of God.
We would that were true, but know it is not; it is another spirit, and therefore we speak. Not that we came hunting for you – the Lord Jesus delivered you to us that you might hear the truth and be saved.
27) That He has manifested His fruit in you.
There has been fruit, but it is not the fruit of the Spirit, as you have well proven for all to witness.
28) That our dialogue is a waste of time.
You have never heard the real truth about yourself as you have and will from us, truth you need to hear if you are ever to come to salvation.
And you presume to be saved, even a pious, prayerful pastor, one caring for a flock? Indeed! But there is more to show your corruption, “pastor.” Let’s look at the instances of sarcasm, which we are to believe are manifestations of the fruit of the Spirit of God and the prayerful spirit you claim to have for us:
1) “um”
2) “tho’ i admire your wit for trying to debate me on a saturday” [with false assumptions].
3) “btw, read d.a. carson’s book on this issue…oh, wait, it’s written by a man, so you won”t, tho’ you expect me to read your website, which is also written by man (you)….hmmm, another inconsistent strawman…)” [with false assumptions – and by the way, we will, Lord willing, take a look at Carson’s book, knowing it has about as much virtue as the one recommending it].
4) “(yeah, i know, the councils held at nicea on were conducted by men….but again, you too are just men, and tell me i need to listen to you….oh, right, you have the Spirit, and they didn’t….” [with false assumptions].
Do you indeed manifest love, much less the pastoral kind, Ryan? Are you satisfied?
Now let’s look at this statement: “finally, i will pray now, like elijah, that the true God will reveal Himself to us, and that the erring party will truly repent.”
Though we do not agree that you pray like Elijah, we do say, “Amen,” to the thought of God making Himself known between us, and He has and will further do so.
You have accused us of much, even accusing us of accusing you. Can you not see that we are not guilty of those things of which you accuse us? Are you not of the vipers of whom Jesus spoke? And you are going to pray for us?
You live in a make-believe world, Ryan, with a make-believe Jesus and a make-believe calling and ministry; you are an empty loser looking for glory. That would not be nearly so bad if you were not using the Wonderful and Glorious Name of the Lord Jesus Christ to do it. That is what makes your conduct so despicable. You have never taken up the cross of Jesus Christ. And we have come in the Name of the Lord, sent of Him to flush you out and expose you, even as Jude declared that Enoch prophesied would be:
“And Enoch, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied to these, saying, Behold, the Lord came with myriads of His saints, to do judgment against all, and to rebuke all the ungodly of them concerning all their ungodly works which they ungodly did, and concerning all the hard things ungodly sinners spoke against Him. These are murmurers, complainers, leading lives according to their lusts. And their mouth speaks proud things, admiring faces for the sake of gain” (Jude 1:14-16 MKJV).
Is it any wonder such judgment and rebuke appears to the guilty to lack love, kindness, and gentleness? And is your letter all about those qualities, even in the phony ending, showing your righteousness and doing your “Christian duty”? Your judgment is just, Ryan.
Victor
Paul’s reply:
“For the record,” Ryan, we have already told you how we know you aren’t born again, but you couldn’t hear what we said. That in itself is evidence that you haven’t been born again. You don’t have spiritual ears.
You don’t hear what we say, so you report back to us with a twisted version of what you think we said, to justify your position. Here’s an example of your perverse perception: We never condemned you as an unbeliever, as you charge. We have only identified you as an unbeliever by your fruits, which we have identified, and you condemn yourself by rejecting the truth rather than confessing it and repenting. You refuse to be honest before the Lord Jesus Christ.
Instead of dealing with reality, you take the offensive by “sensing” things about us in order to deflect the spotlight on your wretched state. The very things you “sense” about us, like a lack of gentleness and self-control, are precisely what you exhibit as you lash out in enmity, frustration, and bitterness.
After you trash us, you try to cover over your hostility with phony platitudes and make-nice talk, which is even viler than the invectives. It is the height of self-righteousness coming from the man of sin, which you manifested from the outset by your patronizing “prayer” for us.
We haven’t talked to you (or anyone else) in any of your presumptuous and carnal ways; you can’t show, and haven’t shown, that we are guilty of anything. From the get-go, you have been a condescending, self-righteous, obnoxious prig who hasn’t a fig leaf to cover himself or an ounce of proof to go with his condemnations.
When we tell you the truth about yourself, you call it unkind, evil, and fleshly. Yet these are the attributes you manifest by reviling us for speaking the truth to you. The Scriptures call your reaction “the contradiction of sinners.”
We speak with the utmost sobriety and sincerity about the things of God, including your state before Him, while you call it a “song and dance” as you mock us and make sarcastic, baseless accusations. You are guilty of “song and dance” lightness, showing yourself to be a religious hypocrite who lauds his own piety while trashing the things of God.
Your testimony of yourself is contradicted by your attitude and untamed tongue. Victor has pointed out many abuses of truth coming from your boastful member. I have more to add.
Let’s begin with an omission. Why is it, Ryan, that you do not acknowledge my letters or answer me? Is it Christian to ignore someone talking to you, especially someone for whom you claim to be praying? Someone whose ministry you ask God to magnify? Of what use are such loose words when not backed by action? You are so obviously insincere; how could God ever hear you? How can any honest person with a modicum of understanding believe you?
You praying for us is like the prophets of Baal praying for Elijah. But your level of presumptuousness never crossed the minds of these false prophets. So much greater is your descent into delusion and evil, which was anticipated, however:
“But evil people and phony preachers will go from bad to worse as they mislead people and are themselves misled” (2 Timothy 3:13 GW).
You sarcastically mock us as though we wouldn’t read, or haven’t red, anything written by men. That’s patently absurd and very stupid of you to say. We have openly reviewed books on our site, such as The Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren, The Irresistible Revolution by Shane Claiborne, and others.
While we demonstrate the love of God for you by taking the time and care to tell you the truth, you hate us by consistently lying about what we say and do. You have truly proven yourself swinish.
If we are so wrong about the Sabbath, it should be very easy for you to write a few of your own words to show us how we err. Instead you demonstrate one of the true marks of a false teacher, which is to appeal to the words of other false teachers to make your case. And you don’t even supply those words; you only tell us they exist, so we must take your word for it that they conclusively refute the Scriptures we teach, and then you mock us for not being willing to consider them! Can you stop being so stupid and insulting to yourself for a minute and consider the idiocies coming out of your mouth?
I looked Carson up, however, which is how I can confirm that he is indeed another in a long list of hirelings and false teachers. You don’t need to take our word for it – the Word of God amply provides the case against him. You will find it all neatly laid out for you in The True Marks of a Cult, directly from the Scriptures you derisively call our “petty hobby-horses & proof-texts” that fuel our “penchants for quarrels.”
Your neglect of, and disrespect for, the Word of God is by now well demonstrated. You would not reject the Scriptures, however, without first despising their Author. He is the very Substance of our site, but the wicked and blind like you miss Him entirely, just as you do in all of the Scriptures and in life itself:
“Truly You are a God Who hides Yourself, O God of Israel, the Savior” (Isaiah 45:15 MKJV).
What good is your “biblical theology” when the supposed object of your devotion stands before you and you don’t see Him? Furthermore, you reject Him by rejecting those in whom He comes.
“Truly, truly, I say to you, He who receives whomever I send receives Me. And he who receives Me receives Him Who sent Me” (John 13:20 MKJV).
Are we enamored of proof texts or speaking the applicable truth? There is much more at stake here than an intellectual debate for hobbyists. This is life and death, and you are choosing death. The Lord has no use for carnal debates and neither do we, but you can be sure He has zeal for clearing His Name of the lies and works of darkness that attach themselves to It like leeches.
The trinity is just such a lie, a truly disgusting abomination found, not in the Scriptures, but only in the diabolical doctrines of men. One of your spiritual fathers, John Calvin, had Michael Servetus murdered because Servetus proved this to be the case, without a straw man in sight, just as we have on our site. The truth never changes.
What has changed is that today John Calvin is the one who gets roasted, not because we tie you to a stake and burn you (God forbid that anyone naming His Name would follow the devilish example of Calvin and his minions), but because fire comes out of our mouths, and there is nothing you can do or say to stop it and its wholesome effects. You are toast, not because you lost the argument, but because you are yet in your sins and your works are found unacceptable in the sight of God:
“If anyone’s work shall be burned up, he shall suffer loss. But he shall be saved, yet so as by fire” (1 Corinthians 3:15 MKJV).
Therefore, we are your saviors, as it is written:
“And saviors shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD’S” (Obadiah 1:21 KJV).
You have been delivered into our hands, Edomite, blasphemer, child of the flesh. It’s over for you, Ryan. Your self-delusion of a ministry with untroubled conscience is finished. You are finished – you prayed for the furthering of God’s Kingdom at the end of your letter, and you will have, and do have, your answer, but not as you expected.
We are here in Christ’s stead, pulling down everything that exalts itself against the knowledge of God and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ. This is no “song and dance,” as you will know soon enough.
Christ is magnified,
Here is a writing based on a response posted at Ryan’s website, which does not answer any of the material in these letters, but finds fault with Victor’s testimony based on erroneous Reform doctrine:
Seeing God and Living
Interpreting the Bible requires spiritual revelation. A case in point: It is written that no man can see God’s face and live, yet many have done that very thing – it requires spiritual enlightenment, rather than a literal understanding, to know what God means. Then there are the wicked who profess to love and serve Jesus Christ, yet carnally interpret the Scripture to condemn those who have seen Him, not knowing they condemn themselves.