In the midst of our conversation on Lee Shelton’s blog, Arthur set up this entry and asked us to post:
…like a cultist being mocked!
I guess cult leaders Victor Hafichuk and Paul Cohen don’t like being mocked and having their false teachings called out. After a couple of posts on Lee Shelton’s website, they suddenly came back with a lengthy diatribe condemning Lee, me, Spurgeon, Augustine among others with being false teachers (Uh, Mr. Kettle, there is a Mr. Pot on the phone, something about you being black…) If I am listed in the same category as a giant of the faith like Charles Spurgeon, I must be doing something right.
On a more serious note, some of cult leader Hafichuk’s followers post their testimonies. Ingrid Benson’s is heart-rending and shows starkly the fruits of following a cult leader.
Her children lost, her husband dead, her parents estranged from her, all the result of failing to be properly obedient to Victor. One of the hallmarks of cults is to seperate people from friends and family to better control them, and this "testimony" follows that exact pattern. Coming out of a cult like mormonism myself, the similarities between Hafichuk and Joseph Smith are eerie. I thought that men like this could not be successful in the world anymore, but that has been proven wrong. Pray for these men, and especially for their deceived followers, that they may come to know Christ and be freed from the shackles of this cult.
Comments:
Sara Schmidt said…
A Note from Ingrid Benson:
A few things could be said and a few questions asked. For starters, what did Victor have to do in the death of my husband? If Victor had estranged me from my parents, would I have been free to call them to ask for their forgiveness and to tell them that I forgave them? Would Victor have brought up the bitterness I was holding against them? Much easier to keep me away from them if I am angry against them, isn’t it? What about the cult my parents belong to (the Catholic Church) and what it caused and still causes them to do?
Can you show me, based on Scriptures, how what happened was not according to the Lord’s leading – how it was not what the Lord was requiring of me? Since you seem to think that I am deceived and misled, would you like to show me how, based on Scriptures? If I am in such a dire place, should you not be willing to give it a try?
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Paul Cohen repeated this post from Lee Shelton’s blog.
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Arthur Sido said…
Paul as promised I published your diatribe. I will respond to you when I get a free moment, but your intemperate and hysterical language makes the point far better than I ever could.
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Arthur Sido said…
Paul,
First I never claimed to be a prophet, so saying I am a false prophet seems a little silly.
Second, the Bible describing something (Sara having her own tent) and presrcibing something (husbands and wives shoud sleep seperately) are not the same thing. If you want to sleep alone, that is your business but there is no Scriptural command to do so. Having this teaching "revealed" to you or Victor is absolutely unauthoritative.
Third, I don’t follow John Calvin. His teachings are helpful in studying God’s Word, but where he errs (such as infant baptism), I disagree with him. I read his books as an aid, but the only authority for any Christian is the Word of God.
(Ingrid, I wll get back to your comment but Paul’s declaration that I am a "tyrant", "child of hell", "son of Belial", and other well reasoned and sober insults takes priority.)
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Paul Cohen said…
Arthur, anyone who preaches a false gospel to one of God’s sheep is a false prophet, whether or not he claims to be a prophet:
"Beware of false prophets. They come to you disguised as sheep, but in their hearts they are vicious wolves" (Matthew 7:15 GW).
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1 EMTV).
There is nothing silly about exposing the error you present in the Name of Christ, or the treacherous spirit in which you walk. Of course it is natural that the wolf has no sympathy or care for its victims. It is entirely natural that the snake does not consider its deadliness something wrong, or care for those it injects with its poison. These creatures only do as they were made to do. So too do devils mock, laugh, and scorn. Nothing new or surprising here.
You continue to protest in vain as you lie, because neither Victor nor I said it was a Biblical command to never sleep in the same bed as one’s spouse. You have made these things up and have filled in the blanks as you please, according to your wicked and perverse mind. Who can reason with devils like you? The Lord rebuke you, Satan.
Abraham was given by God as our father in our faith, so your argument that what he did has little meaning for us is not true. Victor also noted that Isaac followed in his father’s way in these matters, and I can show those interested to know that Jacob did as well. It is true for you that these things are not of concern because you are not a son of Abraham by faith. You are a bastard. Bastards do whatever they like. So there is nothing here for you to worry about or consider. Shall we expect a devil to become a saint by trying to follow the fathers? Can a pig learn to bleat?
Regarding John Calvin, you certainly do follow him, because, just like you, to him it was all about doctrine. You are Pharisees all. Calvin murdered Servetus over doctrine, one of those being the one you mention, rejection of infant baptism. No wonder God said you would be crawling on your belly, you serpent, because you cannot get any lower in your despicable hypocrisy!
Fruits do not matter to you because your own are evil and you refuse judgment by God’s standards. But so are you judged. You are not escaping; don’t think so for a minute. And all those before whom you lift yourself up while you contemn the Lord will see your judgment and will know the Lord will not be mocked.
And of course you do not remark about The True Marks of a Cult because it has you dead to rights. You have been weighed in the balances and found wanting.
Paul Cohen
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Arthur Sido said…
Actually I haven’t bothered to read "True Marks of a Cult", so I haven’t bothered to respond to it.
Let me ask you the question again, in the two thousand years since Christ’s earthly ministry, has anyone had the truth other than Victor, and by proxy yourself? If so, who are they?
That is a pretty simple question, one that doesn’t require a litany of diatribes about me being the devil/a serpant/a wolf/false prophet etc. etc. Just let me know if you believe any man (or woman) outside of your current circle has had the truth.
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Arthur Sido said…
By the way…
"You are a bastard. Bastards do whatever they like."
I know you live in Canada, but I think you speak the same language as us.
1: an illegitimate child
2: something that is spurious, irregular, inferior, or of questionable origin
3 a: an offensive or disagreeable person —used as a generalized term of abuse
Which of these qualify me as a bastard? I can’t wait to hear this!
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Paul Cohen said…
I have answered your question already. Add blind to the list.
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Paul Cohen said…
"But if you are without chastisement, of which all are partakers, then you are bastards and not sons" (Hebrews 12:8 MKJV).
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Arthur Sido said…
Ok, you found the word "bastard" in one of your versions. Congrats! (I love how you use different versions to find the one that fits in your argument)
You seem to be missing the context here, the context is not cultists chastising Christians but God chastening His children. I know you like to pluck verses out seemingly at random, but the Bible is not a series of verses that don’t connect.
"Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted. In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? "My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives." It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons." (Hebrews 12:3-8)
It is the struggle against sin, and the chastening of God for those who are His, that the author of Hebrews is speaking of. Looking over at Galatians: "But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise." (Gal 3:25-29) The Lord chastens His children, those who are in Christ, a group that by the grace of God I am included in. It is not because I am special or worthy in and of myself, but through the sovereign grace of God, a grace that creates humility in His children, a humility clearly missing from the writings of you and Victor.
Many, if not most, of those who you attack so intemperately are Christians, adopted into the promise given to Abraham, sons and daughters of the promise fulfilled in Christ. They struggle daily and are chastened by God. You rail against those whom God has saved. Romans 8:33 asks the question: "Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies." Count yourself among those who brings charges against God’s elect.
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Arthur Sido said…
And that will be all she wrote. It has been partly amusing, but mostly sad. I am sure you gents are convinced that you are doing God’s will, but so are most cult leaders. What is really sad is that I can have intelligent conversation with deep differences with Arminians, liberal Christians, mormons, and even atheists but it is impossible to have an intelligent conversation with you when every response is laced with insults and personal attacks. Like many cultists, you are so convinced of your own superiority that you are unable to even interact in polite company.
Short of being called a big doodie head, you have thrown every insult in the book at me. Normally people have to spend a little time before coming to dislike me, but you have judged me and condemned me without knowing anything at all about me. If that is your idea of proclaiming the Gospel, we will all be better served by you staying in Canada where your defamation and injury to the witness of genuine Christians is minimized.
Paul and Victor, I rejected your last comment, and will reject any future comments. They have become successively more virulent and show no signs of becoming constructive. The last one was especially ugly and I decided to reject it instead of trying to interact with your hysterical rants. I should have followed Josh’s lead and cut you off some time ago. You already have a webpage to spew your malicious attacks. I won’t provide a further forum for you. Anyone who reads this exchange can decide for themselves the validity of your position. I shouldn’t have baited you into this exchange because it is clear that you are markedly disturbed. I sincerely pray that God will break through your stony hearts, and that if it is His will that He free you from your bondage, you and your followers.
The posting that Arthur rejected:
This brings us back to the original posting and message, Arthur. It is not those who say they are Christians that are Christians, but those whose fruits prove they are Christians, or true sons of God (and not bastards). The story of Calvin, Servetus, and Castellion illustrates this truth perfectly. Each was known by his fruits, which those in darkness do not see or recognize. You choose a murderer and son of the devil as your teacher because you are an unrepentant sinner just like he was, all the way to his gruesome death. Just like Calvin, you are a religious, doctrinaire fool who persists in putting his confidence in men’s works, which, rather than saves, destroys you.
I am not your enemy; you are.
Will you now resurrect your tired, wicked retort, “But what does it matter since all will be saved?” As Paul said:
“What do you think I gained by fighting wild animals in Ephesus? If the dead are not raised to life, ‘Let’s eat and drink. Tomorrow we die’” (1 Corinthians 15:32 CEV).
“For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of One shall many be made righteous” (Romans 5:19 MKJV).
His blood was not efficacious for a measly 5% but for all men, as was His purpose, not willing that any should perish. Your retort plainly shows your confidence in yourself and not in Christ or His grace. You are, as we have said, a bastard, and a very self-righteous one at that. But God will fix that well enough. One day you will take off the mask of pride and show your shamefacedness, abhorring yourself.
Paul
Arthur, Victor here,
We have not used careless or mocking or sarcastic language reveling in cleverness, or unrighteous name calling, as you have interpreted, and as you have conducted yourself. When Jesus called the Pharisees vipers, He was not offending. When John the Baptist called some a brood of vipers, he was not offending. Neither do we offend, calling you a bastard, liar and murderer. Your spirit and motivation for your speech plainly expose you to all who know the Lord. You, Arthur, are vile, really.
You choose your vileness and revel in it. You are arrogant, in that you are wholly ignorant, argue inane arguments, without decent rationale, use diversions, create straw men and accuse us of teaching or speaking things we do not teach or believe. These things did neither Jesus nor His disciples do.
You won’t read what we have made available because you choose your sins and darkness and refuse the entrance of truth. You condemn us as a cult, yet are unable to make specific, reasoned Scriptural substantiation for your condemnation of us.
You only do that which you accuse us of doing – you rail. We are not railing. Railing necessitates uncontrolled emotion with lack of true knowledge and substance. If you were to read our writings and our site, you would find godly Scriptural substance and not mere passionate opinion coupled with hatefulness and anger, which is what railing is.
You insult and mock us; you are altogether without decency or reason, a brute beast looking to impress people, not God. That is much closer to railing than anything involved here.
You are still Mormon, as Mormon in spirit as one can get (not that all Mormons are as vile as are you – we know some rather decent Mormons, as mistaken as they might be in their beliefs). Joseph Smith looked for treasure and glory and was willing to kill for it, if necessary. Your spirit is no different. You mock and show off your “smart-aleckiness,” which is wicked folly before God, and when we tell you these things, you could not care less, being callous, rude, derisive, scornful, incontinent and implacable. We most certainly deal with a devil here.
In the Name of Jesus Christ, we address you, Satan, not in hatred or enmity, but in Truth. Though you are the enemy of all that is good, holy, and true, still, you serve under the Lord of lords and King of kings, and can only serve to do your evil will on people as the Lord Jesus Christ ordains until your sins are filled up to the full and your damnation complete. Job will only come out for the better and the wicked will be destroyed for this age. You will be able to continue deceiving and destroying until your day is finished, according to the judgment of God as performed on a wicked world that chooses to believe lies.